Recommendations on Hardware for Building a Server from Scratch (Getting Confused) ...

[Exile]

[Sorry for this being so long. I've done some decent research on here and online but I figured if I just tell everybody want I want to do and what my idea is I'll get all the best recommendations on what I should do]


Well, I found this forum after almost buying a Tivo Series 3 but then realized I'm tired of paying a monthly fee as well as being locked down on what I can do.

I'm pretty sure I'm just going to build a new computer either from scratch myself or maybe a Dell if the price is right but I'm getting overwhelmed with what I should get. I've decided to spend a pretty penny on this system and build my dream DVR/PVR but then I realized it may just be plain overkill and the money would go to waste so instead I'm gonna hit you guys up for suggestions. I think if you guys can tell me after I tell you what I want to do with my system what the MINIMUM specs should be for it, then I'll be in good shape. That way if I want to get anything better, I know what I have to buy at the very least. I realize that buying a new S3 Tivo is $700 and if I was going to have to buy three of them (not including doing any HD upgrades, it was gonna cost a stupid amount of money). If figure if I do this right just once, I'll be set for a few years.


What I want to do. I have 2 HD TV's in the house so I figure if I build one rocking server, 1 of the other TV's can feed off of it. (If that's wrong or not a good idea, speak now please). Basically, I want to be able to watch TV on all 2 TV's at the same time as well as being able to record I wouldn't think more then 2 two shows at the same time. If I'm right, I need 2 HD tuners in total. FYI: I'm running Directv.


Hardware Questions / Suggestions ...

1) CPU? What MHZ/Size? I've read up on AMD and they appear to be kicking Intel's ass right now so I'm thinking of AMD.

2) RAM? How much at the very least?

3) Tuners? Which are the fastest and best for me? I'm using HD TV's and Directv. Everybody is always talking about what's the best but I'm getting confused myself. I guess I should buy all the same just for the sake of sanity, but if I'm wrong, let me know.

4) Hard Drives - I think I'm just going to go with SATA and maybe about 2TB of storage. That should keep me rolling since I'm recording HD. However, I'm now sure if I put just a separate drive in just for the operating system that's faster (maybe 15k) but if all the data is being stored to all the big drives, I don't see much of an advantage. Maybe I'll put them on a fast raid card or something. Not sure yet.

I'm proficient in building computers and understand enough (I think) to build this and get it done right but I just don't want to do it wrong the first time but at the same time I don't want to spend money that I don't need to.

I appreciate all the suggestions everybody has to give and thanks in advance for all the help.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by Exile

What I want to do. I have 2 HD TV's in the house so I figure if I build one rocking server, 1 of the other TV's can feed off of it. (If that's wrong or not a good idea, speak now please). Basically, I want to be able to watch TV on all 2 TV's at the same time as well as being able to record I wouldn't think more then 2 two shows at the same time. If I'm right, I need 2 HD tuners in total. FYI: I'm running Directv.


Hardware Questions / Suggestions ...

1) CPU? What MHZ/Size? I've read up on AMD and they appear to be kicking Intel's ass right now so I'm thinking of AMD.

2) RAM? How much at the very least?

3) Tuners? Which are the fastest and best for me? I'm using HD TV's and Directv. Everybody is always talking about what's the best but I'm getting confused myself. I guess I should buy all the same just for the sake of sanity, but if I'm wrong, let me know.

4) Hard Drives - I think I'm just going to go with SATA and maybe about 2TB of storage. That should keep me rolling since I'm recording HD. However, I'm now sure if I put just a separate drive in just for the operating system that's faster (maybe 15k) but if all the data is being stored to all the big drives, I don't see much of an advantage. Maybe I'll put them on a fast raid card or something. Not sure yet.

I'm proficient in building computers and understand enough (I think) to build this and get it done right but I just don't want to do it wrong the first time but at the same time I don't want to spend money that I don't need to.

I appreciate all the suggestions everybody has to give and thanks in advance for all the help.

First up it is not clear if you want to both record 2 shows concurently AND watch Live TV on the 2 TVs at the same time. This will require a total of 4 tuners. This maybe a bit of an overkill since I have a similar setup and I very rarely have the need to watch livetv while all my tuners are occupied recording. I am not in the US so someone else could suggest the best tuner for your case with DirecTV.

Your "server" containing the tuners and disks, would need to run SageTV and the other TV can run of a client PC running SageTV client.

1. For CPU, since you are building new, I would go to either an Intel E6700 or the corresponding AMD chip.

2. Memory 1Ghz if you stick with WinXP or 2Ghz if you go Vista.

4. Hard Drives. SATAII is pretty much the norm these days. It is becoming more difficult to find PATA drives. Depending on how much recording you will be doing and how many shows you will keep archived, you will need from 500Gb upwards.

Get a small 40 or 80Gb SATA drive for the OS. Rotational speed is not important. Note that the higher speed disks are noisier.

The Video card is important. You should start with at least an Nvidia 7600GT or ATI 1650XT with HDMI and HDCP so that you are future proof with respect to play Bluray or HDDVD later on.

Your server case is an important component. Looks aside, it should have good airflow and take note on the disk bays.

I would suggest that, if you need more than 3 disks for storage in your server, to consider having a separate file server housing the disks. This will let you have a cooler SageTV server case.

[blade]

Personally I'd suggest going with a dedicated server and not using it for playback at all. It is more costly, but you can tuck it away somewhere and not have to worry about noise, heat, etc.... Mine is in the basement and has plenty of fans and drives. Also I don't have to worry about reducing the noise and in turn increasing heat. Also it's more reliable.

Noise really bothers me and building a quiet server that is also used for playback is going to be practically impossible. Noise may not be that big a factor for you, but it is something you should keep in mind.

1 - How powerful your server needs to be depends on what you'll be using it for. Unless you're going to be transcoding or doing something else very cpu demanding you don't really need that much power. Capturing, playback, streaming to clients, etc... isn't very CPU demanding.

If I were building a new server today and wanted to save money I'd go with the most modern socket and probably the cheapest processor available unless there is something specific you need the power for.

2. I run a dedicated server/client setup and all of them have 512mb and it's plenty. I know others are running with 512mb and don't have any problems. If you're using the server for playback then you'd probably want more than 512mb, but I doubt it would be required.

3 - Are you planning to capture HD OTA (antenna) or HD through DirecTV? If you're planning to capture HD from DirecTV I believe you need to do a search for the R5000. I think that is the only way to capture HD from DirecTV to a PC and it's costly. If you're looking for OTA there are a lot of cards available.

4. I wouldn't waste my money on a 40-80 gig drive. I would suggest finding a more cost effective sized drive and creating a small OS partition and use the remaining space for music, imported videos, pics, etc..... You could also use it for a recording drive, but personally I'd rather use it for storage that doesn't require a lot of reading and writing to the same physical drive as the OS.


I agree the server case is important, but I don't know if I'd go as far as saying you should have separate enclosure. If you have a decent case I don't think you'd have any problems. My server has (3) 7200 rpm drives and the temps at idle are:

CPU: 26c
MB: 33c
HD1: 31c
HD2: 25c
HD3: 31c

Under load the temps don't rise very much. My case does have 80mm intake fans in front of the 3.5" drive bays so I'm sure that helps a good bit.

[Exile]

Thanks for the replies guys. Well, I think I have a good idea on what I need and I guess I have to buy a R5000 since I do want to record Directv through Directv.

Ok, so let me make sure I have this right ...

1) CPU - Any newer or lastest socket thats lower end is fine. Basically, I don't have to buy the best of the best if I'm only at max going to be recording 2 shows and playing 2 shows at the exact same time. Is that right?

2) RAM - 512-1 Gig seems to be ok. I'll put a gig in for sanity purposes and make sure that the motherboard is capable of handling at least 2 gigs.

3) HD's - SATAII is cool with me. I'll think about if I should put a entirly seperate drive for the O/S or just a smaller partition from another drive.

4) Tuners - This is the only section you guys didn't elaborate on. I realize this may be the only section I may be doing overkill on, but I guess let's do this. I want to be able to at max (this includes me upgrading it later for more TV's etc) to be able to do this. Record 2 shows at the same time as well at watching TV at the same time on 3 seperate TV's. I think that means I need a total of 5 tuners. So I should buy a total of 5 of what tuners and should they all be exactly the same or ???

5) With regards to the video card, I definitely want to be able to play Blu-Ray and/or HD-DVD even currently so recommend what's the best for the best price right now if you know it.


I think that's about it so far. I realize that one of you said to have this only ran as a recording server and not for playback but I think for the moment, I am going to use it for playback and maybe I'll build something just for playback. This is going to be my first so I want to learn and see how things run (with regards to the hardware and performance) before I build more then one right now.

Hopefully you guys can clear this up for me and I can start ordering some stuff next week. Also, any recommendations on buying something pre-built that's comparable in price or does it still make more sense to just build it myself?
Thanks Again

[davefred99]

Couple of things come to mind, first if I am not mistaken the R5000 is a modified Dishnet receiver and will not work for Direct TV. If you want to record Direct Tv HD you can't but you can record DTV downrezed to 480i off of a DTV HD reciever and it will look pretty damn good compared to other SD sources. For the most part HD recording is limited to OTA or QAM local channels no premiums like HBO. ESPN or Discovery. Personaly while I love my Sage PVR I also am considering a Direct TV HD-DVR for my regular HD viewing off direct TV since for tne most part I just watch/timeshift and erase most everyting anyways. I use my SageTV mostly for DVD's ripped to the hard drive and archiving SD programs. I dont think Blue Ray or HD-DVD is worth it at this time. Standard DVD's upscaled to near HD off my PVR looks good enough for me and HD dvd files are way to big even if you could rip them to your PC. There is a reason the Tivo-series 3 costs so much, they are the only PC device other than cable and dish company dedicated pvr's that can record premium hd content.
Good luck, just wanted to make sure you get what you really want and are not disapointed later, Dave

[cslatt]

Lots of good advice flowing through here, let me throw in my $.02

Hard Drives - I definitely recommend that you don't record to your OS/Paging drive, so either try to save a little money by buying a smaller drive for the OS, or pick up a larger drive and fill it with stuff other than TV recordings (Photos, Music, Imported Videos, Arcade Emulators, etc)

Tuners - I have seen new people go overboard on the tuners many, many times. I really strongly suggest that you start small on the # of tuners and grow if you find that you need to - especially given the cost of the R5000. People almost always overestimate the amount of time they'll spend watching Live TV. For you, I'd recommend starting with 2 or 3 tuners. I think you'll find that they are plenty. Like I said, it is easy to pop more of them in later if you find you are running up against your limits.

[blade]

Originally Posted by davefred99

Couple of things come to mind, first if I am not mistaken the R5000 is a modified Dishnet receiver and will not work for Direct TV.

I don't know much about the R5000, but according to this it seems it works for capturing DirecTV in HD.

From the page I provided the link to:

Solutions are currently available for DirecTV, Echostar (Dish Network), Bell ExpressVu, StarChoice, C-Band (4DTV) and Motorola digital cable.

As I said, I'm not too familiar with it so maybe someone who does know will correct me if I'm wrong.

[mikesm]

Let me also speak up and argue for moving the storage into a seperate box. There is no way you will get enough disks to be a good archive and cool them so they last and have the case be very quiet so it can sit in your living room.

The good news is with Sage you can also run sage server on that box, and then keep a sage client system with a good video card in it in your living room. Not only does this make for a very quiet config, but your client will only power up when needed to watch something, and the server will be up 24x7 so it can record programs, serve MVP's, and servce content to placeshifter clients, etc...

Remember, if you have squeezeboxes or other audio only clients, that server can also run other sorts of software to feed these devices too.

The only real issue with this is if you want to run software RAID5, you really need to do that under linux if you want it to be reliable. But if you run the linux sage server, it seems there are some issues with some of the customizations that assume windows utilities are there...

Sage's client server paradigm is quite powerful, so you will want to make sure that your setup will let you exploit this.

Thanks,
mike

[Jesse]

Hi,

There are some things to keep in mind re. the R5000 and Directv. Foremost is that there is no MPEG4 capable R5000 boxs available. IIRC all HD locals, other than NYC and LA (?), are broadcast by D. in MPEG4. Most if not all of the new channels they will be bringing online in the near future will also be in MPEG4. It wont be long before an MPEG2 only R5000 box will be an expensive doorstop. If they had an MPEG4 box available I would be all over it.

It may pay to look carefully at what HD programming you are wanting to watch. When we asked ourselves this we discovered that the overwhelming majority of HD we were interested in is from the networks. I ended up with an OTA antenna and two of the vbox usb tuners. Just something to think about.

I agree with cslatt on the number of tuners. Start with two and see where that gets you. We ended up with two SD and two HD tuners and seldom have conflicts. Of course, unless those Florida Gators are playing , we seldom watch live tv.

My .02.

Have fun.

Jesse

[davefred99]

Originally Posted by blade

I don't know much about the R5000, but according to this it seems it works for capturing DirecTV in HD.

From the page I provided the link to:



As I said, I'm not too familiar with it so maybe someone who does know will correct me if I'm wrong.

I stand corrected, I never really researched the R5000 but at $700.00 its a non starter for most. Plus it only does MPG-2 as noted by another poster here. I actualy dont record much HD content anyways cause it takes so much diskspace. I do Timeshift it and then delete it but for that I think a DTV HD pvr is more apropriate and cost effective. I hope that DTV will come through with some other options but I'm not holding my breath. It will probably take some kind of Hacked DTV HD box to get what we want and the industry is ready to sue any entity out of existence that gives us what we really want.