Charter HD questions

[jbarr]

I was poking around the Charter web site, and found the following in their FAQ section:

You will need an HD capable digital receiver from Charter and an HDTV set. You will also need Component video cables and Composite audio cables to connect this equipment together. These are available in our Charter HDTV Activation Kit. DVI/HDMI, 1394 and coaxial or optical SDPIF connections are also possible, but the cables are not provided by Charter.

Alternately, if you own a CableCARD HDTV, you have the option of leasing a CableCARD from Charter to receive HD programming.

Does anyone know if either of these two solutions compatible with SageTV? Obviously, the first would require a 1394 connection to the server running SageTV, and the second solution would require some sort of CableCARD device that would also record. Is eomthing like this even available?

I'm particularly interested in our local affiliates (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox, PBS, and WB) and not "premium" HD services.

[tomfisk]

Where I am at (Rochester, MN) Charter broadcasts the big five (PBS, CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox) digitally over standard cable as QAM. So...spring for a Homerun HD and you'll have pretty much what you want.

[lobosrul]

Your best bet is to try and receive those channels OTA with a digital tuner.

If you want to go the cable box route you will need to setup a firewire connection, using Sgraphrecorder. Theres a very long thread about this somewhere.

There are currently no HD Component capture cards. At least not at reasonable prices (under $1000).

There are currently no cable-card pci tuners. ATI's Ocur card should be out sometime soon but its likely (almost certain IMO) that this will require Windows Vista and will be loaded with DRM.

[blade]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

Your best bet is to try and receive those channels OTA with a digital tuner.

Not exactly true.

jbarr could use a HDHomeRun and likely get those channels via QAM. Whether or not this is better or worse than OTA will depend in part on what is available OTA and how good OTA reception is where jbarr lives and the local cable company. Where I live getting OTA is impossible and even if it were possible I'd rather get it through the cable company because the towers are located in different directions and the only way to get the different channels would be to rotate the antenna.

The HDHomeRun is probably the best choice because it has dual tuners and can do OTA or QAM in Sage. If you go with another OTA tuner you won't have the option of QAM in Sage.

There are currently no cable-card pci tuners. ATI's Ocur card should be out sometime soon but its likely (almost certain IMO) that this will require Windows Vista and will be loaded with DRM.

The channels jbarr wants to capture shouldn't be encrypted so all of that garbage isn't needed. If they are encrypted the the HDHomeRun can also tune OTA.

[heffe2001]

Up until this weekend, I got everything from my cablebox via firewire, but they 5c'ed everything except locals.

The locals for Charlotte work great from the box, and I get locals from other areas with the HD Homerun (see my post in the EPG forums for a list). I'd say the firewire solution would be cheaper in the short run, but it's problematic. The HDHR is actually easier to set up (it's almost too darn easy, easiest tuner I've done under Sage). The guys who make it are even talking about a 8 port rackmount version .

Just for the record:

Charter Hickory, NC

93-8 SD WCSN (no guide data)
98-1 - 98-61 Music
101-4 HD WSOC-DT
102-2 HD WBTV-DT
103-1 HD WCCB-DT
104-2 HD UNC-HD (no guide data)
106-1 HD WMFY-DT
106-2 HD WXII-DT
106-4 HD WXII-DT2

[jbarr]

AntennaWeb shows the following OTA stations from my location:



The site also recommends a large, directional antenna with pre-amp. Given that the stations are generally distributed along three compass vectors, I wonder if that means that the directional antenna would need a rotor?

It really sounds like HDHR would be the best route given that it handles both QAM and OTA. The Cable route seems to be the simplest, but then I would be dependent upon the cable company. OTA would be more expensive, but gives me control.

Also, would I have to pay the cable company for the HD locals, or do they come across the cable automatically?

[dvd_maniac]

I was just looking into getting HDTV setup for my sage server.
I looked at my locale and found that I get no OTA. I have Charter cable and was wondering what I should do to get HD setup on my system?

I am guessing I need Charter's HDTV cable box, but if I get one with 1394 do I still need an HD tuner or will Sage recognize the box itself? What if I get 2 or 3? I currently have 3 STB's...
I am only interested in the local channels as I am sure the Premium channels are encrypted...

Can somebody point me in the right direction as to what I should order, buy and how to setup?

[ke6guj]

If you get a HD STB with the 1394 port enabled, you can install some drivers so that Sage will recognize the box itself. It will be its own tuner, so you don't need to add a tuner card for it. It will capture right through the firewire. Go here for all the info you could possibly use. http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...light=firewire .

Once you get the first one set up, you should be able to set up a second or third. I've seen that mentioned in the thread that you can daisy-chain the STB's together and use them all.

Depending on the cable company, you may be able to just get the digital locals, or you may get lucky and get more than the locals un-5C'ed so you can record them. And if you get a motorola STB, the STB will encode the analog channels and send them out the 1394 port as well (it does a GOOD JOB encoding, about 1GB per hour). The Scientific Atlanta boxes don't do that.

[heffe2001]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

I am guessing I need Charter's HDTV cable box, but if I get one with 1394 do I still need an HD tuner or will Sage recognize the box itself? What if I get 2 or 3? I currently have 3 STB's...
I am only interested in the local channels as I am sure the Premium channels are encrypted...

Can somebody point me in the right direction as to what I should order, buy and how to setup?

I've heard people having issues with multiple Firewire HD boxes, and I've only got the one here, so I can't help much with that, but to answer your question on needing one or not...

As long as you have their internet service, and basic cable, I don't think you need one of their HD boxes to use a HDHR. I also think you'd be happier with the ease of setup of the HDHR's, it's really almost a no-brainer. The hardest part is finding a lineup that matches what you get. I had to basically create a custom one and set up my channels with Zap2It, since Charter gives me more locals that I'm really supposed to have (I also get the VOD stuff when someone in my area is watching one, but that really can't be added to the system, never know when somethings going to be on ). At this point, I may end up dumping the firewire box, since it's not really working at the moment anyway.

[lobosrul]

jbarr could use a HDHomeRun and likely get those channels via QAM. Whether or not this is better or worse than OTA will depend in part on what is available OTA and how good OTA reception is where jbarr lives and the local cable company. Where I live getting OTA is impossible and even if it were possible I'd rather get it through the cable company because the towers are located in different directions and the only way to get the different channels would be to rotate the antenna.

Does he know what channels his cable co offers via QAM? For example, theres some pissing match going on between the local CBS and Comcast here. The only way to get it on HD is OTA.

[dvd_maniac]

As long as you have their internet service, and basic cable, I don't think you need one of their HD boxes to use a HDHR. I also think you'd be happier with the ease of setup of the HDHR's, it's really almost a no-brainer.

Are you saying that I could order their HD service but not upgrade the box to a firewire HD STB and use the HomeRun instead?

What advantages would that give me to make it a no brainer?

I just got off the phone with them and they are coming out the 27th with what they called a Moxi HD box which is suppose to have an open firewire port.

[ke6guj]

YOur HD locals should be available to you even without having to order HD service. They should be unscrambled so they can be QAM'ed with a HDHomerun, orbe able to get them on the HD STB and output via firewire without 5C encryption. HD service is to get the extra HD channels above and beyond the locals. You should be able to get a HD STB even without ordering the HD service, you just have to pay the rental fee for the HD STB.


The Moxi HD box is a PVR. I don't think you need that box, just a standard HD STB would work. You may even being charged extra for PVR service. The moxi is a motorola box so you probably have the option of something like the DCT6200. That would be a better box to get since it is a single-tuner box (you can't use the second tuner on any box with Sage) without any PVR features. It comes with firewire ports, and will even encode your analog channels and output them through the firewire port. In essence, giving you a tuner for all your channels, except for any 5C'ed channels.

[dvd_maniac]

So if I got the HomeRun I would get the HD locals but if I get the HD STB I might get some premium unencrypted channels AND get my analog channels with a much better quality encode than my Hauppauges through my firewire?

Plus if I do not get an HD STB, how would I transfer the signal from my current STB's to the HomeRun?

OTA is out of the question reception wise for me.

[Kirby]

Of course if you could get a Moxi or DCT6200 without firewire, they you would have an option to do an R5000 mod but thats another issue. Of course if you are wanting R5000 type of stuff, you can get a SD box modded, and it will get every channel except the HD Tier channels in your area (and thats only limited by what you can convince the installer/CSR to authorize on the SD box). If you can convince them to put the HD Tier on that box, then you would get everything. The problem I had with this was I started with an HD box, then added a SD box, and if it was the other way, there is a chance that the HD addition would have pushed to the SD box.

regarding Charter HD locals, the norm for them is that they are in the clear, so long as you subscribe to at least the lifeline basic package. just plug in the coax and scan for them.

Charter will not allow you to have (rent) an HD box without subscribing to the HD package. I tried when I downgraded, to keep my 6200 so I could use it for a tuner for the locals and they refused.

I had bad experiences trying to run the analog channels out of the 6200's firewire. It was a mess! audio sync issues up the !@#.

5C is just evil! Evil evil evil! I think you are going to run into a lot of channels that have 5C on Charter, not just the HD Tier, but it seems like all of my digital premiums and digital basic channels had 5C turned on last september ('05).

It basically comes down to what programming are you trying to get from Charter into sage. If just locals, then something like the HD Homerun or other QAM solution is what you want. If you want more than that, then you are going to need to look at some of the other options talked about.

[blade]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

Does he know what channels his cable co offers via QAM? For example, theres some pissing match going on between the local CBS and Comcast here. The only way to get it on HD is OTA.

I don't think he does, but that's the good thing about the HDHomeRun it can do OTA or QAM with Sage. Also one tuner can be setup for QAM while the other does OTA. Personally I'd rather have the option to do either than to lock myself into OTA only. From what jbarr posted he can only get ABC, NBC, Fox, & PBS OTA.

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

So if I got the HomeRun I would get the HD locals but if I get the HD STB I might get some premium unencrypted channels AND get my analog channels with a much better quality encode than my Hauppauges through my firewire?

I would like to know this as well. Is there anything you might be able to get through firewire that you couldn't through a HDHomeRun? I'm not too familiar with all the encryption garbage, but if it's encrypted where the HDHomeRun can't get it wouldn't it also be encrypted so that you couldn't get it through firewire?

Plus if I do not get an HD STB, how would I transfer the signal from my current STB's to the HomeRun?

The HDHomeRun doesn't need a stb connected to it. It's a QAM capable tuner. You connect the coax to it and it can tune your unencrypted digital channels.

One reason to go with the HDHomeRun is the long term costs. It has dual tuners and if you rent 2 cable boxes you're looking at $10 a month. After a year and half you'll have spent more on rental fees than if you purchased the HDHomeRun. Of course over the short term a stb and firewire would be cheaper.

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by blade

I would like to know this as well. Is there anything you might be able to get through firewire that you couldn't through a HDHomeRun? I'm not too familiar with all the encryption garbage, but if it's encrypted where the HDHomeRun can't get it wouldn't it also be encrypted so that you couldn't get it through firewire?

There will be some that you can get through the firewire probably. After thinking about what I posted above, I seem to recall that not all SD digital premiums were 5C'd. HBO I think was. Showtime wasnt (but its been several months since I had cable programming).

I think I was also mistaken about digital basic channels (or whatever they are called). The channels from 101 up through 400 or so on my Charter lineup (things like Discovery multiplex, etc) were not 5C, but were digicipher encrypted. This means you wont get them via a QAM tuner, but should have no issue routing them over the firewire connection of a 6200/moxi.

To further complicate things, you probably wont find consistent 5C settings throughout all of Charter. Its going to depend on the engineer at your super headend that applies the 5C from what I understand. One nice thing though, the HD premium channels (Sho, HBO, Cinemax, etc) are usually tied to their respective SD tier, so if you go the route of a R5000 STB (anything without firewire) you will get those channels and not have to worry about 5C.

[dvd_maniac]

wow, and I thought setting up zones with a iurt was complicated.

I think I understand a little better now.
Home Run would take the place of my STB? Actually could take the place of two STBs? and if I have encryption on a channel via firewire STB than I'll also have that channel encrypted via HDHR?
I have their gold package which gives me all the premium channels so would I have anything to worry about there?
Also, I forgot to ask the Charter CSR, would I get HD for all the premuim channels I subscribe to or are they extra too???

[Kirby]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

wow, and I thought setting up zones with a iurt was complicated.

I think I understand a little better now.
Home Run would take the place of my STB? Actually could take the place of two STBs? and if I have encryption on a channel via firewire STB than I'll also have that channel encrypted via HDHR?
I have their gold package which gives me all the premium channels so would I have anything to worry about there?
Also, I forgot to ask the Charter CSR, would I get HD for all the premuim channels I subscribe to or are they extra too???

The HD Homerun will only receive In The Clear channels. That means those with no 5C, and with no digicipher encryption. That's going to be your HD locals, and probably nothing else.

The CSR will not tell you that you can get the HD premiums with the SD pack. They are included, but if you dont have a HD STB from Charter, they assume you are not smart enough to manually tune the channel number on the SD STB. Now you wont get a display on a SD STB of the HD channels, you will get audio. If the SD box is a Moto DCT-25xx model, it more than likely has a DB9 connection on the back, which is a high speed data port, used to connect to a HDD-200, which could then decode the HD video portion. I never tried this setup, as HDD-200's are a bit expensive to be buying to experiement with, rumor is that the high speed data port is disabled on all Charter STB's anyway. I had a DCT-25xx box with R5000 mod, and it didnt care about being able to display the picture, because it picks up the MPEG-2 data off the internal board.

If you get a STB with firewire, I would say most of the premiums you have will work over the firewire, but you could run into 5C on some (HBO especially). You should also have no issue tuning HD locals and HD premiums with it, and sending some over firewire. It seems like when I cancelled my Charter video services that Cinemax HD and TNT-HD (and maybe Universal HD) were the only 5C free channels in the HD range (excluding locals). That meant that channels like Discovery HD, HDnets, ESPNs, Showtime, HBO would not transmit over the firewire to a PC.

[blade]

Definitely a mess.

I've been considering a HDHomeRun, but it seems like a lot of money to only be able to capture 5-6 channels and likely nothing else (this really goes for all HD capture devices though). The only good thing is they are the channels that most of the shows I watch air on and having them in HD would be nice. Unless I could get a lot more from a stb and firewire I'll likely go with the HDHomeRun.

Is there anyway to determine what channels would be in the clear or available through firewire with a stb? I'm currently on extended basic and have no QAM tuners or stbs to test with. My sister lives down the street and does have one of the digital packages and several stbs, but I don't know if any of them have a working firewire port.

[Kirby]

You can check the 5C status of a channel by going into the service menus. On Moto 6200's, I believe the method was to power off with the remote, then within 2 seconds, hit Select and play at same time (someone correct this if its wrong). Then 5C info was in menu item 11 I think. I would imagine that you can also find digicipher status in the menus as well, but I never bothered to look. Its going to be almost every digital channel they carry that is digicipher encrypted. Locals wont be, and a few other straglers (CNN En espanol is one that isnt encrytped here). Other than your HD locals, I wouldnt bet on anything else being ITC.