PC Mag SageTV - #1 !!

[Ken C]

The latest issue of PC Mag, January 2007, has SageTV as #1, the #1 'Who's screwed?' !!!

This is PC Mag's Vista issue and on page 94 they opine Vista's built-in digital video recorder will put Sage in "a less than ideal place".

Gee, ya think Sage will refund my $30 upgrade ???

Ken C

[flavius]

And what about #7?

[jbarr]

I really don't think this is a big deal at all. I don't think SageTV will have to worry one bit. With SageTV's "openness", things like its new Video Editor Plugin, the DVD Burning plugin, a host of other wonderful goodies, and most notably: non-DRM'd .MPG files, I simply wouldn't touch Microsoft's offerings. And I'll bet that their "built-in digital video recorder" will be very limited and not extendible.

To me, the attraction of SageTV, other than being s solid product, is that they understand that the user is the one in control--or at least is given lots of control. With Microsoft products, admittedly as good as they often are, you are always under Microsoft's control. Tweaking and user-configuring are comlpetely within the constratints of how Microsoft thinks you should be computing.

I certainly wish Microsoft luck with their offerings--time will tell--but SageTV is an advanced system that really shines. They just need to market it better/more....

[jwmcclung]

I agree. The reason I chose Sage over MCE was the openness. I want to be able to move my content to whatever device I want in any format I want without worrying about DRM and all the crap that comes with that. I setup a nice HP MCE for our office with a linksys extender and Xbox 360 extender and I can tell you from experience it doesn't hold a candle to the reliability of my Sage setup with 4 MVP's. We have nothing but problems with the MCE and my Sage just seems to run.. even v6 so far is solid. Oh well, my 2 cents worth.

[sandor]

nah, it will probably be extendable, but you'll just have to have another PC with Vista Ultimate on it

i would hate to see how much $$ it would cost to build the same LAN system i have at home with Vista and the corresponding machines necessary - will the require HDCP, etc? That would be the exact *opposite* of what i would want to do with my open, OTA HD setup now. sure - Vista might come out of the box with HD DVDand Blu-ray support, but if that is the only "Pro", i'll stick with Sage and Netflix for a looooong time.

[Deadbolt]

Originally Posted by sandor

nah, it will probably be extendable, but you'll just have to have another PC with Vista Ultimate on it

i would hate to see how much $$ it would cost to build the same LAN system i have at home with Vista and the corresponding machines necessary - will the require HDCP, etc? That would be the exact *opposite* of what i would want to do with my open, OTA HD setup now. sure - Vista might come out of the box with HD DVDand Blu-ray support, but if that is the only "Pro", i'll stick with Sage and Netflix for a looooong time.

I just hope that Microsoft isn't the only build-your-own DVR app that will get to use CableCard tuners.

[Polypro]

Hah! I *had* MCE 2004...it came with a Sony tower I bought. I'll give it credit for one thing...ok, two: Informing me of what an HTPC is, and is capable of, and getting me to search for something that wasn't MCE. OpenOffice and Opera are still humming along nicely.

P

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Deadbolt

I just hope that Microsoft isn't the only build-your-own DVR app that will get to use CableCard tuners.

I am pretty sure it will be - heck, Vista just barely supports it itself. You can't even play it back on another Vista machine. Vista is neutered in so many ways.

The thing that could make Vista a winner compared to sage if it's hacked so the DRM crap is bypassed. It could be a nice way out for MSFT - they officially support all the DRM stuff, but that "hacker" community breaks things and then all the power users stay on that platform instead of going elsewhere.

As for me, an R5000-HD and HDHomeRun's will give me what cablecard is supposed to in MCE minus the nonsense. And that is reason enough to put the work into making Sage be the core of our house's entertainment system.

Thanks,
Mike

[tmiranda]

Like it or not, agree with it or not, more people will end up using MCE than Sage. History tells us that if it ships with the OS and it is "free" people will use it even if another product is better.

Notice I did not say less people will be using Sage. As a matter of fact I think Sage's installed base will increase. The people already using Sage will continue to do so and hopefully some of those who "discover" media center software via MCE will look for something better ... and find Sage.

I'm certainly not a pundit but it seems pretty obvious that in many of the major home software niches there is MicroSoft and one or two other competitors. I believe in 5 years Sage will still be in the game and maybe BeyondTV.

[Deadbolt]

Originally Posted by mikesm

I am pretty sure it will be - heck, Vista just barely supports it itself. You can't even play it back on another Vista machine. Vista is neutered in so many ways.

The thing that could make Vista a winner compared to sage if it's hacked so the DRM crap is bypassed. It could be a nice way out for MSFT - they officially support all the DRM stuff, but that "hacker" community breaks things and then all the power users stay on that platform instead of going elsewhere.

As for me, an R5000-HD and HDHomeRun's will give me what cablecard is supposed to in MCE minus the nonsense. And that is reason enough to put the work into making Sage be the core of our house's entertainment system.

Thanks,
Mike

Will the HDHomeRun allow for encrypted HBO HD?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Deadbolt

Will the HDHomeRun allow for encrypted HBO HD?

No, but the R5000-HD will. The HDHomeRuns are cheap, and can pick up quite a few channels (all the broadcast networks, and lots of SD channels), so you can avoid a 2nd R5000-HD. Or at least with our viewing patterns it should be.

thanks
mike

[FidgetyRat]

i'm starting to wonder if MS paid them for that. That seems pretty biased.


For starters, the #1 problem with using vista's media player is that... well frankly, you have to install vista.

It'll be a cold day in hell or many months from now before I even consider doing that.

Nothing I would rather then have most of my HTPC's cycles wasted on bloatware.

[that_kid]

MCE in Vista is nice BUT it doesn't do what Sage does and that's why I'm using Sage instead of MCE in Vista. The simplest things like using multiple (greater than 2) cards or having multiple lineups is huge for me. Not to mention the placeshifting client and best of all MVP's all over the house. Vista MCE is pretty but Sage works the way I need it to

[mlbdude]

I pretty much do agree that with all the DRM and cable labs issues products like SageTV will have to be able to survive on a niche market or go away completely (or go the DRM route themselves). However, how come SageTV never gets mentioned by these mags when they do PVR reviews but it get singled out like that when what they really mean is all other PVR apps and not just Sage that are in trouble.

[sjrx0213]

Reason number one why we went with Sage (as opposed to TiVo, etc.) is automatic commercial skipping. Does anyone seriously think Microsoft will provide that type of capability? They'd be in court defending against lawsuits the day after it hit the street.

I wouldn't be too quick to write Sage's eulogy. But then, I don't write for PC Mag.

--Steve

[motobarsteward]

Yeh, sage can be a little difficult to set up if you don't live in the US or Canada (xmltv etc). But you get so much more with Sage. I started out using Sage 4. I then bought a machine that had MCE on it and used that for a while. To my mind, the best thing about sage is that you can have you capture cards on a different machine to the one attached to your PC. Microsoft suggested that they were working on similar capabilty some time ago. ow, the only way to do it with their product is to buy an X-Box or X-Box360. I therefore bit the bullet and bought Sage. I've just upgraded to Sage 6 and I'm happy as Larry. I've now helped a couple of friends set up their own sage systems.
MCE will always win in numbers, but if sage are careful about their overheads, the user base will always expand. Hopefully, they will end up rich, happy and productive.