Vista UAC and Sage Service control.exe

[hummedan]

Hello,

I have upgraded my system to Vista 64 bit and all seems to be going well with one exception.

When I try to launch the Sage Service Control program, I get a windows error saying "Unable to run application. Program can only be run by administrator". There is only one account on the system and it has admin status.

If I turn off windows User Account Control, the service control app. runs as it did under xp. and all shows record like normal. If UAC is enabled, the sage service will not run correctly and my shows dont record correctly.

Anyone have any ideas on hows to tame this vista beast?

[Motofreak75]

under local security policy
Security Options
"User Account Control: Run all users, including administrators, as standard users"

default is enable, just disable it. and reboot

[mickp]

Originally Posted by hummedan

Hello,

I have upgraded my system to Vista 64 bit and all seems to be going well with one exception.

When I try to launch the Sage Service Control program, I get a windows error saying "Unable to run application. Program can only be run by administrator". There is only one account on the system and it has admin status.

If I turn off windows User Account Control, the service control app. runs as it did under xp. and all shows record like normal. If UAC is enabled, the sage service will not run correctly and my shows dont record correctly.

Anyone have any ideas on hows to tame this vista beast?

I don't know if it helps but there's no real reason to use the service app. Just run the services control panel. I don't remember where it is in Vista as I've only had a bit of a poke around in there atm but you can probably bring it up by presseing <windows key>-R to bring up the run dialog and entering services.msc

You will find the sage tv service listed here and can enable/disable, start/stop and change the service account here.

Hope this helps.

Mick.

[hummedan]

Originally Posted by Motofreak75

under local security policy
Security Options
"User Account Control: Run all users, including administrators, as standard users"

default is enable, just disable it. and reboot

That entry does not exist in my local security policy.

How now?

[Motofreak75]

try
User Account Control: Run all administrators in Admin Approval Mode (third up from the bottom)

MS made a type-o (I guessing) above is the correct policy, if you go into the Explain tab, you'll see "User Account Control: Run all users, including administrators, as standard users."

[hummedan]

OK... I made the change but all that did was turn UAC off just like I did through the Windows Security Center control panel.

Is there a way to use the UAC (so windows will stop naging me about security issues) and have the service work?

[mickp]

Originally Posted by hummedan

OK... I made the change but all that did was turn UAC off just like I did through the Windows Security Center control panel.

Is there a way to use the UAC (so windows will stop naging me about security issues) and have the service work?

Is it the service that fails or just the service control app?

Mick.

[hummedan]

The app will not load. If I check the service list w/uac active, it says it is started; however when I run sage, no recordings are available and all setting are at default.

If I turn off UAC, the app works, all settings and recordings are restored.

[mickp]

Hmm. As you may have gathered I haven't yet bothered to use Vista much yet so am guessing wildly here... Does it help to run the sage service as the local admin account?

Mick.

[hummedan]

If I switch users and log in as "Administrator", the program will load normally. But if I try to open it using any other account that belongs to the Admin group, I get the following error message:

ERROR: Cannot OpenSCManager. You need to be logged in as Administrator for perform this task

Nice english huh?!?

[Ryokurin]

although you are an administrator, right click on the link and choose run as administrator as well. That should fix it. You may have to do this in other programs such as Zoomplayer if you want to change associations and such too. Its kind of annoying and I hear its going to be further refined to remove stuff like this in a future service pack.

[hummedan]

Well that seemed to do it. I can now access the service control panel.

If I run SageTV now, my recordings still wont show up, but if I right click and run as admin on sagetv they do show up.

Not sure if this UAC thing is worth it. This run much smoother with out it.

[Motofreak75]

you cancreate a shortcut and goto properties and click on run as admin always or you can disable UAC and tame it period

[roxy99]

I always wait until I actually *need* to upgrade an os before taking the plunge. I plan on staying with XP with my current config. A good rule of thumb to follow is whenever you upgrade your PC then is the time to upgrade your OS.

MS is notroious for rushing out software before its ready. Let them work out the kinks and let manufacturers have a chance to release new drivers.

[hummedan]

Originally Posted by roxy99

I always wait until I actually *need* to upgrade an os before taking the plunge. I plan on staying with XP with my current config. A good rule of thumb to follow is whenever you upgrade your PC then is the time to upgrade your OS.

MS is notroious for rushing out software before its ready. Let them work out the kinks and let manufacturers have a chance to release new drivers.

Well I needed to upgrade as my old system has gone to the silicon cemetery. I suppose I could have formatted the system and gone back to XP but that would be like taking the engine out of your new Ferrari and replacing it with your old Ford engine. Sure it runs but so much for performance.

Let's face it... like it or not, Bill Gates has begun to put XP in the coffin.

[roxy99]

Originally Posted by hummedan

Well I needed to upgrade as my old system has gone to the silicon cemetery. I suppose I could have formatted the system and gone back to XP but that would be like taking the engine out of your new Ferrari and replacing it with your old Ford engine. Sure it runs but so much for performance.

Let's face it... like it or not, Bill Gates has begun to put XP in the coffin.

Like I said, new hardware, new OS. It makes sense in your case then to upgrade the OS at the same time as you replace the hardware. I wish I could help you with your problem. FWIW, XP will be maistream for several years yet, even by Gate's own admission.

[Sarlac]

did we ever get a fix for this issue?

I have just moved to Vista Ultimate and have discovered a similar issue. I can get the service control app to launch as administrator with no problem but when i tell it to start the service it says

"the system can not find the specified file"

the file is in the default install location.

I also can't start it through the services control panel

It is listed as stopped, correct path listed in properties, but upon attempt to start it gives the can not find file error

help!?


meh-

a little registry editing solved the issue, there was an invalid entry for the ImagePath key.

look in

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\SageTV]

Was ImagePath: REG_EXPAND_SZ --"C:\Program Files\SageTV\SageTV\SageTVService.exe"

Should be ImagePath: REG_EXPAND_SZ C:\Program Files\SageTV\SageTV\SageTVService.exe


Problem solved

[JParedis]

Originally Posted by hummedan

Well that seemed to do it. I can now access the service control panel.

...

Not sure if this UAC thing is worth it. This run much smoother with out it.

I'm also running VISTA on my HTPC, and besides the service/MVP issue which Sage support is looking into, all is running smoothly. UAC is giving me regularly a 'warning/confirmation' pop-up, but understanding the security logic behind it makes it a bit ok. I would not turn off UAC if not really needed.

Do understand that regardless how you logon, you always run as a standard user. So if you logon with a user in the Admin group, that user gets 2 tokens: a standard user and admin user token. It will run everything as standard user, you need to initiate or confirm if you want to run something with the administrator token. The logic behind it is that if a malware start a pgm under your credentials, it will run as a standard user - not admin. In case it wants to update for instance the registry, you'll get a confirmation pop-up asking you if you agree - and you can block it than.
The user "Administrator" is I believe a special one, and does react a bit differently. I have not enabled this one, and believe MS does recommend not to use it. However, not sure about this.

On the Sage Service Control program,, locate the actual exe and right click on it and select properties. In one of the tabs (not on my VISTA PC at home, so can not check for actual tab name) you can at bottom flag that is should always run as an administrator. You can than start the app from whatever shortcut, it will always get you the UAC confirm pop-up after which it runs smoothly. Given you normally not use this pgm often, the service auto-start at boot, not a real hassle.

Be also aware that switching between UAC enabled/disabled and running an app as admin or not, has an impact. UAC managed installation of SageTV will install SageTV under its standard directory "C:\Program Files\SageTV\SageTV". UAC will store files SageTV will manipulate - e.g., Wiz.bin and sage.properties - under
"C:\Users\'user'\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Program Files\SageTV\SageTV". This would normally not be a problem for the programs, as UAC handles this. If you disable UAC, all runs as a with WinXP and all will be in the standard directory (warning: it does not copy the files under VirtualStore to the standard location!).

So if you install and setup with UAC enabled, all your settings are in the VirtualStore. If you than disable UAC, SageTV will look in the standard directory, find nothing, assume it's your first run, and initiates the install wizard (again). Enabling UAC again will get you back to the other setup/configuration.
Confusing? Yes, I have been testing so many combinations that at end one has to get confused. I'm going to reinstall VISTA clean and do this time a better documenting of settings and how VISTA/SageTV reacts on it.
I believe, but am still testing, that the user used to run the service (SYSTEM, LOCAL ACCOUNT, OTHER) also influences this.

Originally Posted by hummedan

If I run SageTV now, my recordings still wont show up, but if I right click and run as admin on sagetv they do show up.

That's because of above explained reason. Try following: stop SageTV including service. Than copy the wiz.bin and properties files from the standard directory to the VirtualStore directory (you'll need to drill down to it). Restart SageTV. Now you should have all data also when you run as standard user (so you do not have to run each time as admin). Remember, updates will only happen in these files you are using, depending on how you running (standard or admin). Hence it's important that after your testing, you decide once on how you want to do this and best remove all other locations (it's becomes a nightmare else, believe me).
As always, take a backup before you try - just in case

Oh yes, be also aware UAC only protects certain directories as Program Files\. If you install SageTV with UAC enabled, but install it in for instance C:\SageTV\ than the installation is again as under WinXP - all in one directory. My current feeling is that this is the way to go untill SageTV is updated for VISTA (there are potential issue with storing files under a user if you start switching users on your VISTA).

Some more info can be found at http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25145.

The specific service/MVP issue, seems more VISTA user have it, can be found at http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25143 and is under investigation by the Sage support team.

Hope above helps a bit (came out longer as I expected, sorry ).

Jan

PS: As you, I'm slightly 'forced' to VISTA. It's not yet ready and stable (e.g., my UI does regularly crash). One must be aware this is not as an upgrade from W2K to WXP, VISTA is a different animal with serious changes in security and other area's. It is required to read and study to understand this new windows.