PVR 500 question

[TechBill]

I purchased a PVR 500 from ebay and install it in the computer also downloaded the latest driver which XP detected and installed it.

I am planning on using it with SageTV but I am holding back to wait for my remote and usb-uirt to arrive before downloading SageTV so I have all 15 days to try it out (I am pretty sure I will like SageTV and purchase it) so I figure I could use the Hauppauge WinTV2000 to check out the PVR-500 but it doesn't seem to work at all so I am thinking if it a PVR-500 MCE that it not gonna work unless it in XP MCE or in regular XP with supported software like SageTV etc. Am I assuming correctly? Or is there an free small tv application that I can test on the PVR-500 while I wait for the other parts to arrive?

Thanks
Bill

[pjaffray]

You might want to post some details of your setup, motherboard, processor, memory, other cards etc.

I know that there are problems with PVR500 and motherboards with a VIA chipset. There also seems to be problems with AMD X2 processors.

pdj

[TechBill]

I went ahead and downloaded SageTV to try it in and it worked but I see an issue so far so trying to see if there a way to get rid of it.

On each side of the screen is a "folded line" something like that look like if a book was folded and leave a creaves of the folded line.

Also trying it see how I enable the Closed Caption on it too.


Motherboard is a Gigabytes P4 Titan GA-8IPE1000 /w Intel 865PE chipset
CPU is P4 2.4G Prescott
Memory - 1 Gigs
Videocard GForce 6600 with 256meg

I am currently testing it on my monitor because I ordered my s-video cable and it haven't arrived yet.

Bill

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by TechBill

Also trying it see how I enable the Closed Caption on it too.

As long as you have the latest version driver, 2.0.48.24201 or newer, CC is already be captured during your recordings.

You just have to go into sage.properties and sageclient.properties (if using SageCLient or Sage in Service Mode) with Sage completely shut down and set cc_option_enabled=true to true.

You also need to have a DVD-capable decoder installed and used for Sage to be able to display the CC. The built-in Sage MPEG decoder won't work, you need something like nVIdia Purevideo.

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

As long as you have the latest version driver, 2.0.48.24201 or newer, CC is already be captured during your recordings.

You just have to go into sage.properties and sageclient.properties (if using SageCLient or Sage in Service Mode) with Sage completely shut down and set cc_option_enabled=true to true.

You also need to have a DVD-capable decoder installed and used for Sage to be able to display the CC. The built-in Sage MPEG decoder won't work, you need something like nVIdia Purevideo.

I am using the beta driver from hauppage 2.0.48.25037 and I changed it to true that the CC option appears in the menu but it not clickable or letting me change to enable or on etc.


I am not sure what you mean DVD-capable decoder installed but I do have PowerDVD 7 latest version install so do I need to setup Sage to use this decoder or something?


Thanks

Bill

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by TechBill

I am using the beta driver from hauppage 2.0.48.25037 and I changed it to true that the CC option appears in the menu but it not clickable or letting me change to enable or on etc.

So you should already have the cc captured in the recording due to the driver, now you just need to adjust the decoder you are using.

I am not sure what you mean DVD-capable decoder installed but I do have PowerDVD 7 latest version install so do I need to setup Sage to use this decoder or something?

Yes, you need to tell Sage to use the PowerDVD decoder. Go to Detailed Setup>Video, Change the MPEG2 Video Decoder to your PowerDVD decoder. Once you do that, the CC option should be changable. If you go to Detailed Setup>DVD and change that to PowerDVD as well, you will then be able to watch retail DVDs.

[TechBill]

I found the menu setting under DVD and selected PowerDVD 7 Decode then check the CC option but still at "OFF" and won't let me change it to anything else.


Bill

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by TechBill

I found the menu setting under DVD and selected PowerDVD 7 Decode then check the CC option but still at "OFF" and won't let me change it to anything else.
Bill

You need to change the setting under Video, not DVD, to get CC to work in your recordings. The DVD section is for viewing DVDs.

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

So you should already have the cc captured in the recording due to the driver, now you just need to adjust the decoder you are using.


Yes, you need to tell Sage to use the PowerDVD decoder. Go to Detailed Setup>Video, Change the MPEG2 Video Decoder to your PowerDVD decoder. Once you do that, the CC option should be changable. If you go to Detailed Setup>DVD and change that to PowerDVD as well, you will then be able to watch retail DVDs.

I went in there and changed it to PowerDVD decoder and it finally allow me to choose CC1 but I am not seeing any CC appearing on the screen however on my TV I see the CC working so I know that show I am testing it on have CC on it.


Trying a different overlay now


Thank you
Bill

[TechBill]

Ok changed the overlay to VMR9 and CC is working!!!

But video may be alittle jerky .. not sure yet need to do some more watching and testing.

Thank for you help!!

Bill

[ke6guj]

Cool. If you want to run Overlay, you can disable "Overlay Color Keying" and get CC in overlay.

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

Cool. If you want to run Overlay, you can disable "Overlay Color Keying" and get CC in overlay.

Thanks that did the trick. But CC look different in each Overlay setting. The VMR9 gave CC a nice shade transparent background while the default Overlay with Color Keying off was white on black. I'll have to switch back and forth to see which one I like but the transparent CC looks cool thou since I could actually see the video behind the CC.

I also have this one annoying problem is that on my right side of the video screen is a folded edge .. maybe more like a bevel edge like those old antique mirrors with bevel edge around it is what I have on one side of the video.

So far I tried different setting but could not get rid of the one sided bevel edge. Any suggestion on getting rid of it?

The video itself look real good for me coming from a sat box to RCA composite inputs on PVR500 but the one side bevel edge is a bit annoying.


Thanks again!
Bill

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by TechBill

Thanks that did the trick. But CC look different in each Overlay setting. The VMR9 gave CC a nice shade transparent background while the default Overlay with Color Keying off was white on black. I'll have to switch back and forth to see which one I like but the transparent CC looks cool thou since I could actually see the video behind the CC.

Yup, VMR9 definitely does the CC better as well as any box transparencies. But if Overlay runs smoother, then you have to make the choice, pretty or smooth?

I also have this one annoying problem is that on my right side of the video screen is a folded edge .. maybe more like a bevel edge like those old antique mirrors with bevel edge around it is what I have on one side of the video.

How far does the distortion come in on the right side? Remember that most TVs Overscan the video 3-5% so that the outermost edges of the video is not displayed on the the screen. So the broadcasters don't always have the edges look pretty. Sage out of the box displays the entire video, including any portions that the broadcasters expect to be overscanned and not viewed.

You can adjust the "aspect ratio" settings to move the distortion off the screen. You can increase teh ratio up a couple percentage points to stretch the display, or you can offset the display to one side or another. Whatever it takes to do the job.

The Overscan setting in Sage is for adjusting the SageUI to fit the screen, so don't mess with that, use the aspect ratio settings instead.

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

Yup, VMR9 definitely does the CC better as well as any box transparencies. But if Overlay runs smoother, then you have to make the choice, pretty or smooth?

I like the VMR9 and so far it only video lag once but I think that because I made several quick selections from menu to menu. The actual showing looks good and CC is pretty.

How far does the distortion come in on the right side? Remember that most TVs Overscan the video 3-5% so that the outermost edges of the video is not displayed on the the screen. So the broadcasters don't always have the edges look pretty. Sage out of the box displays the entire video, including any portions that the broadcasters expect to be overscanned and not viewed.

You can adjust the "aspect ratio" settings to move the distortion off the screen. You can increase teh ratio up a couple percentage points to stretch the display, or you can offset the display to one side or another. Whatever it takes to do the job.

The Overscan setting in Sage is for adjusting the SageUI to fit the screen, so don't mess with that, use the aspect ratio settings instead.

I believe you are right about this becasue I just compare it to my TV and SageTV on my computer monitor that it does indeed look like the top and right side on TV had been clipped or trimmed around the edges compared to the video in SageTV so I'll probably take your advice and adjust the ratio to trim bevel edge off the viewing screen.


Thank again you been a great help tonight!
Bill

[TechBill]

I got one more thing.

I saw all the files mpegs saved in the Video folder and opened it with PowerDVD 7 to see if it will play the mpeg which does play the mpeg fine but no CC is displayed in PowerDVD 7 (Yes CC is enabled in it) and if i went back to SageTV and play the file that it will show the CC.

Is there a trick to getting CC to display in PowerDVD 7 becasue I was hoping to record shows and transfer it to my laptop to take with me on road trips or when I travel.

Thanks
Bill

[ke6guj]

That I don't know. I only use the Purevideo decoder, don't have any DVD players installed.

I dunno if the CC in PowerDVD is the same CC we have. They may be refering to the DVD subtitles instead of the DVD closed captioning.

OK, just DL'ed the PowerDVD demo and the closed captioning is greyed out, so I dunno.

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

That I don't know. I only use the Purevideo decoder, don't have any DVD players installed.

I dunno if the CC in PowerDVD is the same CC we have. They may be refering to the DVD subtitles instead of the DVD closed captioning.

OK, just DL'ed the PowerDVD demo and the closed captioning is greyed out, so I dunno.

The CC in demo is disabled.

I know becasue I been using PowerDVD for several years and you have to purchase it to use the CC feature. I think it's a dumb move on Cyberlink part anyway.

CC to me is the analog video line 21 and subtitle is the text seperated from the video or srt file.

I have played a DVD with CC (not subtitle) on PowerDVD and also in SageTV both shows CC just fine. But recorded show mpg files by SageTV played in PowerDVD is not showing any CC which I assume it should since it using PowerDVD codec or is SageTV stripping them out of line21 before writing it to file?


Still trying to figure this out and I am sure there a way to make it work somehow 8-)

Thanks for your reply and help on this!
Bill

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by TechBill

The CC in demo is disabled.

I know becasue I been using PowerDVD for several years and you have to purchase it to use the CC feature. I think it's a dumb move on Cyberlink part anyway.

That sucks. I did see that DVD-audio was disabled in the demo, but didn't see anthing about CC. Oh well.

CC to me is the analog video line 21 and subtitle is the text seperated from the video or srt file.

Yup, but DVDs can have line 21 CC as well as subtitles embedded in the VOB files. I've had Sage display both at the same time. YOu can also see that on a regular DVD player by turning on CC on the TV and subtitles on the DVD player.

I have played a DVD with CC (not subtitle) on PowerDVD and also in SageTV both shows CC just fine. But recorded show mpg files by SageTV played in PowerDVD is not showing any CC which I assume it should since it using PowerDVD codec or is SageTV stripping them out of line21 before writing it to file?

IIRC, Sage captures the line21 info and writes it to the mpeg using the CCinDVD feature of the PVR-500's driver. Whether or not the CCinDVD'ed CC is still at line21, I dunno.

Still trying to figure this out and I am sure there a way to make it work somehow 8-)

One possibility would be to extract the CC to an .srt/.smi file with mpg2srt and seeing if PowerDVD would play them as a subtitle. YOu may need to convert the mpeg to avi if PowerDVD won't subtitle an mpeg.

[TechBill]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

That sucks. I did see that DVD-audio was disabled in the demo, but didn't see anthing about CC. Oh well.

Yup, but DVDs can have line 21 CC as well as subtitles embedded in the VOB files. I've had Sage display both at the same time. YOu can also see that on a regular DVD player by turning on CC on the TV and subtitles on the DVD player.

IIRC, Sage captures the line21 info and writes it to the mpeg using the CCinDVD feature of the PVR-500's driver. Whether or not the CCinDVD'ed CC is still at line21, I dunno.


One possibility would be to extract the CC to an .srt/.smi file with mpg2srt and seeing if PowerDVD would play them as a subtitle. YOu may need to convert the mpeg to avi if PowerDVD won't subtitle an mpeg.

I am thinking maybe a bug in PowerDVD 7 itself not decoding line21 from mpg files on hardrive properly so I am gonna test by burning it to a DVD and playback to see if CC appears.

Also I am trying to find another brand trial version DVD player that support line21 CC to test it in to confirm it, know any other dvd software player that support CC with trial version?


Thanks
Bill

[TechBill]

Had to go out of town but I am back home now.

Today I decided to confirm that CC data are being saved in mpeg file when it recoreded in SageTV.

So I downloaded a software ccextractorwin.exe which supposely to check mpeg files for any CC and extract them into a readable format like smi file etc.

I ran ccextractorwin.exe on the mpeg file recorded and saved by SageTV in the video folder and it does have CC data in them.

So it seem that the PowerDVD are not detecting the CC in the mpeg afterall or unless PVR-500 driver are not saving CC data in "standard" format for all CC or SageTV is inserting something into mpeg that breaks the CC data format but only readable by SageTV for CC playback on recorded shows.

Strange thing is that since I am using PowerDVD decoder in SageTV and it playback CC fine in SageTV but not in PowerDVD player itself.


Bill