Transport Stream .vs Program Stream

[Polypro]

HDHR Related:

So I did a little experiment this morning. I changed the Sage.properties file entries (Service Mode) for encode_digital_tv_as_program_stream= (One per HDHR tuner, and a master property, total 3), back and forth from "true" (PS) & "false" (TS). After each change I watched the same HD channel: WXYZ-DT Detroit, ABC-HD QAM from Brighthouse via the HDHR. The program was GMA, and at the bottom was a ticker provided by the local affiliate. With Sage encoding/playing back the HDHR output (HDHR outputs a TS) as a Program Stream, (.mpg) the ticker at the bottom was jerky and stuttering. When the property is set to false (.ts) Sage played back the ticker flawlessly. I did this several times to make sure.

ToxMox found out that in GraphEdit:

"When I drag .mpg files that were recorded while the property was set to true the default demuxer is MPEG 2 Demultiplexer and if I drag the TS files after setting them to false into GraphEdit the demuxer is the Nvidia Transport one"

I too am using Nvidia decoders .223, but have tried Cyberlink as well.

Is it in the transcoding from TS to PS? Is it the Demuxer used in playback? I don't think it's the HDHR, as other programs (VLC, MPC, etc...) play the .mpg files fine. For now I'm going to record HD as a Transport Stream...it seems to give the best playback. Why does Sage default (prefer) to encode and playback .mpg .vs .ts? Are there any downsides to a .ts stream? More questions than answers, but since 6.2.10 is final, I wanted to start a discussion here.

P

[ToxMox]

AFAIK the downside is that the TS files will have more time code problems when fast forwarding or rewinding it'll jump to places you aren't expecting moreso than they do with the PS files which Sage basically tries to repair and inconsistencies in the stream as it encodes the Mpegs.

[Opus4]

As a reminder regarding this property change, note this post:

Originally Posted by Narflex

I HIGHLY recommend AGAINST changing this property (or other ones of the same name):

encode_digital_tv_as_program_stream

Please leave it at the default of true. There's been lots of support issues/bugs from people where changing this setting was the sole cause.

If you change this property & have issues, it looks like support would end up asking that you change it back to true.

- Andy

[Polypro]

Roger that.

P

[Keenan]

I thought the setting for this property was not even valid anymore? Are you saying it should be set to "true", and that it actually makes a difference in the resulting file? All I've ever had from the HDHR is TS files, never been able to get PS files created.

[ToxMox]

If you are using the BDA drivers then you should be setting it to true. If you are still using the old way then the setting makes no difference except that the file extension changes from ts to mpg.

[Keenan]

If I'm running WinXP with Sage 6.2.7 and HDHR FW 20070914, am I running BDA drivers?

Forgive my ignorance, I just followed the instructions from the HDHR site. The channel mapping was changed in that it now uses a x-x-x channel mapping system, I'm guessing that's the BDA style?

[gplasky]

If you never set it up before and followed the latest instructions you're using BDA. But you should upgrade to the latest Sage, 6.2.10. That's the final production version and should work better.

Gerry

[Keenan]

Actually it's been working rather good but I will upgrade to 6.2.10. I've been wanting to get PS files from HDHR captures for some time for use in another application, am I to understand that this is now possible using Sage w/HDHR?

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by Keenan

am I to understand that this is now possible using Sage w/HDHR?

Yup, if you are using the new HDHR BDA driver setup, not the older HDHR setup.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

Yup, if you are using the new HDHR BDA driver setup, not the older HDHR setup.

Excellent, just upgraded to 6.2.10 and have set a few recordings to check it out.

I'm assuming "new HDHR BDA driver setup" is the one outlined in the Sage instructions at the HDHR site?

http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/hdho...s/sagetv_cable

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by Keenan

I'm assuming "new HDHR BDA driver setup" is the one outlined in the Sage instructions at the HDHR site?

http://www.silicondust.com/wiki/hdho...s/sagetv_cable

Yup, thats the setup for the BDA method. Make sure you have the latest HDHR software installed so that the HDHR's firmware gets updated to use the BDA stuff.

[Keenan]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

Yup, thats the setup for the BDA method. Make sure you have the latest HDHR software installed so that the HDHR's firmware gets updated to use the BDA stuff.

It looks like 20070914 is the latest so I should be good to go.

[Keenan]

Is there a link to 6.2.7, or is it archived somewhere? 6.2.10 brings back video stuttering on 1080i channels for me rendering Sage useless.

[ke6guj]

If you hack the download URLs by changing the filename to the version number you want., you can usually DL the older versions.

http://download.sage.tv/SageTV_V6_2_7Setup.exe will give you 6.2.7

[Keenan]

Thanks, luckily it wasn't one of the files I deleted when doing some house-cleaning the other day.

Installed 6.2.7 and the stuttering is gone, I'll be sticking with that version for now.

[Polypro]

I don't know if it's my local affiliate or what, but WXYZ-DT (ABC 720p Channel) will not play smooth in Sage as a Program Stream (.mpg). It plays fine in MPC and VLC, and in Graph Edit with Halli Splitter instead of Sage Splitter. It plays fine as a .ts using NVIDIA Transport. 1080i and Fox 720p are fine??? Off to the lab...

P

[Keenan]

I'm having stuttering problems again myself. I even went back to 6.2.7 and still having a few issues so I'm not sure what the problem is. In my experience with upgrading Sage software it's a close your eyes and hope for the best experience. Things work fine before the upgrade, and then don't after, it's kind of annoying...

As Polypro says, "off to the lab" to play with setting, codecs, etc....again.

[jptaz]

Polypro,

I have had issues with WXYZ-DT (ABC 720p Channel) pretty well since SageTV added support got HD. The stream from ABC is horrible. The actual stream is so bad that SageTV can not fix the stream. I even sent several hours of raw stream data to sagetv. I believe the issue is actually with the station itself. I pretty much gave up on recording anything on ABC in HD or at the very least always record it in SD as well. If you have any luck getting it to work let us know.

John

[Polypro]

Right on! I thought I was going nuts The thing is, it plays smooth in other apps (with their built in decoders) and in GraphEdit if you use the Halli splitter. NVIDIA/Cyberlink makes no difference. I also sent in two clips on Fri...WDIV-DT (perfect) and WXYZ-DT (horrible). It's gotta be fixable...or if I could find out the exact problem, I'll call the station.

P