HD, HD, where's the HD ?

[Ken C]

Now that I have a TV capable of 1080p, I'm thinking it's time to look at a HDHR or equivalent. But ...

The new TV will also tune the clear QAM cable channels. Very disappointing ... There are 30+ clear channels available but only three with 1080i signals, two at 720p, the rest are 480i. So, basically only five HD channels, NBC, Fox, CW, and two locals.

No way to put up an antenna for ota, and I live way too far away anyhow.

Is this typical ? Maybe I should be happy with any clear QAM.

Also, when the 2009 switchover happens, will the cable companies have to carry the HD or SD version of the network broadcasts ?

[Yooper]

I have pretty much the same result. The cable companies are required to have some of the "local" stations unencrypted. I have only 3 stations: pbs, NBC and CBS.

I don't think anyone broadcasts HD in 1080p yet - the best is 1080i.

The law on phasing out analog channels only applies to OTA. It does not apply to cable. The cable companies can continue to offer analog.

The question I have is: will the existing analog channels be replaced by digital or HD equivalents? The think the cable companies are bandwidth limited right now and are having trouble competing with the dish folks who have plenty of bandwidth thanks to Uncle Sam.

[garyellis]

Last Friday I had the cable guys out trying to give me more signal strength...Any way..one of them mentioned that I would not be able to get Clear HD QAM channels much longer because time warner was going to something he called "switched networking"...I don't know what he was talking about, but it doesn't sound good for me.

Gary Ellis

[sandor]

the 2009 switchover will require a digital broadcast for OTA (ATSC) but doesn't require any specific *content*. I suppose stations could send 4 or 5 sub-channels of crappy looking 4:3 content post-2009 just like they are no.

btw, i think the Fox 720p feed i get OTA is still, by far, the best PQ of all the majors here in philly. 1080i has too many artifacts.

[Ken C]

Originally Posted by Yooper

The law on phasing out analog channels only applies to OTA. It does not apply to cable. The cable companies can continue to offer analog.

The question I have is: will the existing analog channels be replaced by digital or HD equivalents? The think the cable companies are bandwidth limited right now and are having trouble competing with the dish folks who have plenty of bandwidth thanks to Uncle Sam.

I think there is an FCC reg or something called 'must carry' that forces the cable co's to carry the local broadcast channels. So, in 2009 after analog broadcast goes away, if the locals are broadcasting in 1080i/720p, do the cable co's have to carry the HD ? Or is SD ok ?

And, how interesting will it get if the cable co's try and force everyone to get a stb for every TV allowing them to also eliminate the analog channels they currently deliver ? It would be interesting to know what % of their customers do not have any stb's, or only one for the 'main' TV and none for the 'bedroom' TV's. I think I remember hearing something about congress looking at the situation but no resolution.

Or, how about a compromise, convert the current cable analog channels (1-99) to digital but make them clear QAM channels. That will give the cable co's the bandwidth they want and, at least with new TV's, allow channel tuning without stb's.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by garyellis

Last Friday I had the cable guys out trying to give me more signal strength...Any way..one of them mentioned that I would not be able to get Clear HD QAM channels much longer because time warner was going to something he called "switched networking"...I don't know what he was talking about, but it doesn't sound good for me.

Gary Ellis

Depends on your POV, SDV will free up a lot of bandwidth, that could be very good for internet bandwidth and maybe also for content/HD availability.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched_video

Originally Posted by Ken C

I think there is an FCC reg or something called 'must carry' that forces the cable co's to carry the local broadcast channels. So, in 2009 after analog broadcast goes away, if the locals are broadcasting in 1080i/720p,

The thing very few realize is that "must carry" doesn't mean the cable companies have to carry all locals. Each local channel has the option to opt for either must carry status, or to work out their own deal with the cable companies. We had a issue here last year where one of the locals and the cable company had a contract dispute and one of the locals was unavailable for a few weeks.

And, how interesting will it get if the cable co's try and force everyone to get a stb for every TV allowing them to also eliminate the analog channels they currently deliver ?

Satellite is already like that. What will be interesting is to see how many defect to satellite if cable starts requiring a box for each TV to get anything.

It would be interesting to know what % of their customers do not have any stb's, or only one for the 'main' TV and none for the 'bedroom' TV's. I think I remember hearing something about congress looking at the situation but no resolution.

I don't see how congress could, or should for that matter, do anything regarding the need of STBs.

Actually, perhaps the best solution would be if the FCC or someone mandated a conditional access standard like the CAM system in Europe.

[Ken C]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Satellite is already like that. What will be interesting is to see how many defect to satellite if cable starts requiring a box for each TV to get anything.



I don't see how congress could, or should for that matter, do anything regarding the need of STBs.

As always, it will come down to price. I wonder how the cable co will deal with my need for eight stb's, 4 for the htpc, 4 for the rest of the house. Or, maybe Sage could have a bulk discount on HD Extenders !!

As far as congress is concerned, they get involved in a lot of things they shouldn't ... In this case, I think it was trying to keep the 1-99 analog cable channels alive for a few more years.


Anyhow, are 4 or 5 clear QAM HD channels typical, the rest SD ? And, in my case, only NBC and Fox with any merit. If that's all that's available, not a real need to jump into any digital tuner.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Ken C

As always, it will come down to price. I wonder how the cable co will deal with my need for eight stb's, 4 for the htpc, 4 for the rest of the house. Or, maybe Sage could have a bulk discount on HD Extenders !!

Actually my curiosity is how many people avoid satellite/stick with cable just because of the STB issue, I know a few people at work are or were reluctant to switch to satellite for that reason. If cable starts requiring a box for each TV (and the associated rental fee) I wonder how many people will make the jump.

As far as congress is concerned, they get involved in a lot of things they shouldn't ... In this case, I think it was trying to keep the 1-99 analog cable channels alive for a few more years.

I think simple economics will keep analog around for a few years.

Anyhow, are 4 or 5 clear QAM HD channels typical, the rest SD ? And, in my case, only NBC and Fox with any merit. If that's all that's available, not a real need to jump into any digital tuner.

Locals in the clear is about all one should expect, yes.

[garyellis]

Count me as one that hasn't looked seriously at Satellite TV because of the STB per TV requirement.

Thus, I have not explored the options available with Satelite TV. Nor have a I looked hard at RS5000 solutions.

It should be interesting over the next few years.

Gary Ellis

[korben_dallas]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Actually my curiosity is how many people avoid satellite/stick with cable just because of the STB issue, I know a few people at work are or were reluctant to switch to satellite for that reason. If cable starts requiring a box for each TV (and the associated rental fee) I wonder how many people will make the jump.

I think simple economics will keep analog around for a few years.

Or people may stop watching TV altogether. Imagine a 3-5 TV household on analog cable now being told to pony up $5, $10, $15, or even >$20 for each room to lease an STB. It's not unlikely to think they'll say heck no, and with internet-based video services ramping up, the cable/satco's may lose some big $.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by korben_dallas

Or people may stop watching TV altogether. Imagine a 3-5 TV household on analog cable now being told to pony up $5, $10, $15, or even >$20 for each room to lease an STB. It's not unlikely to think they'll say heck no, and with internet-based video services ramping up, the cable/satco's may lose some big $.

Yeah, I found it supercool that I could watch Heroes on Netflix WatchNow a few hours after it aired on TV. I would have no issue paying Netflix for that, trailblazers deserve my money much more than Comcast does.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by korben_dallas

Or people may stop watching TV altogether. Imagine a 3-5 TV household on analog cable now being told to pony up $5, $10, $15, or even >$20 for each room to lease an STB. It's not unlikely to think they'll say heck no, and with internet-based video services ramping up, the cable/satco's may lose some big $.

I think it's far more likely that people will just "do without" the "extra" TVs. Take my parents for example, they've got 3 TVs, if they had to get boxes, I doubt they'd drop their service, but one or two of those TVs would probably go all but unused.

I think a lot of the super-multi-TV households have that many TVs hooked up mainly because they can, rather than because they have a specific desire to have that many.

[Taddeusz]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it but the FCC is requiring cable operators to maintain analog channels so that their customers still have access without an STB till Feb 2012. I'm not sure how many channels are required to be carried though.

The new plan just announced called "tru2way" should standardize devices so that any cable ready device should be able to pull "on demand" type service so that all channels don't have to be broadcast like it is now. Say you change the channel. With "tru2way" your TV would tell your cable company to request the streaming of said channel instead of each channel being simultaneously transmitted and tuned.

I'm sure it will still be hindered by DRM though.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Yooper

I don't think anyone broadcasts HD in 1080p yet - the best is 1080i.

1080p is NOT a broadcast standard so you will never see 1080p TV unless standards are changed. But by then we will all want 2160p anyhow! (But you do see 1080p HD/BR DVDs, etc.)

[stanger89]

There are all kinds of 1080p TVs

[sleonard]

My understanding was that 720p, 1080i, and 1080p were all defined broadcast standards but that because it requires approximately twice the bandwidth nobody chose to use 1080p.

S

[stanger89]

I don't think 1080p60 is an ATSC broadcast standard, I think 1080p24 and maybe 1080p30 are, but they are never used.

1080p60 is what most people mean when they say 1080p.

[CollinR]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Satellite is already like that. What will be interesting is to see how many defect to satellite if cable starts requiring a box for each TV to get anything.

I don't see how congress could, or should for that matter, do anything regarding the need of STBs.

Actually, perhaps the best solution would be if the FCC or someone mandated a conditional access standard like the CAM system in Europe.

I would go to Dish and R5000Hd on Vip211s if that happened to me.

The FCC is all about breaking the cable box from the cable companies, this is where Cable Card comes in, just like CAM. It just doesn't work right unlike the CAM system.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by sleonard

My understanding was that 720p, 1080i, and 1080p were all defined broadcast standards but that because it requires approximately twice the bandwidth nobody chose to use 1080p.

S

Nope, only 720p and 1080i are broadcast standards and use approximately the same amount of bandwidth. 1080p is used only for local content like HD-DVD or Bluray.

[stanger89]

ATSC specifies:
1920x1080@ 23.976p, 24p, 29.970p, 30p, 59.940i and 60i
1280x720@ 23.976p, 24p, 29.970p, 30p, 59.940p, and 60p
and 640x480 and 704x480 at the same rates as 1080 but with 59.940p and 60p.