SageTV evolution is dead

[Julianus]

This thread is to draw atention to evolution of SageTV, mainly that there is none.
SageTV has new releases but the changes are only bug fixes. No significant changes.

The UI is extremelly dated. Take a look at Vista MCE this is how a fresh UI should look for a Media Center.

The SageMCE project is a nice idea, but in the end is a playground for hackers. It is not usable for a regular person. It is not part of the regular SageTV installation. I see nice work done on top of SageMCE by a lot of people, but none that I can install. The date of the last download is from 2 years ago. To me this suggest that some people are using a the SageTV as a framework because they hate the SageTV UI so they build a completely new UI around it.

I openned this thread to question the future of SageTV. I am running SageTV starting from version 4.0.

[sainswor99]

I think to say that SageTV has not evolved is a misnomer; I would agree that there are issues with the current UI (and I also have similar objections to using SageMC), but the product itself has clearly evolved with the introduction of the HD Media Extender, the development and expansion of the online services, and the continuing growth in the areas of HD recording.

[BobPhoenix]

I for one would not like to see "BIG" changes to the UI. I like it the way it is. The only thing I would change is to have nielm's Dynamic Menus built into the Default STV. The small changes they have made to the UI so far are just fine.

[NEOSG]

I agree on the UI part. It is extremely dated. Also, not being a fan of MCE, that is not an option. i would like to see some fresh ideas as far as the UI is concerned.

As far as the behind the scenes guts of Sage, I think Sage is best there is!

But, wow, that UI needs a a makeover.

[Addict]

I agree the UI needs a serious refresh (actually, a rebuild might be more appropriate) to keep up with what else is being released out there. People like flashy stuff, and hardware these days can handle it. Sage needs to step up to that plate.

However, to say that there has been no evolution seems sensationalistic to me. I haven't been around all that long. Less than a year, actually...but in that time I've seen heavy development...a release of an HD extender that's getting fantastic reviews for a Gen 1 product. An updated theme system. Initial support for video podcasts. Support of more and more hardware and operating systems. The possibility of a universal HD capture device, and who knows what else.

...and this is just off the top of my head.

Personally, I like to believe that Sage has a lot in the skunkworks. The past < year for me has led me to believe that these guys are doing what they can to set themselves up for the future. I do hope to see some serious UI changes, but I don't think the software is stale in any other way.

BTW, I use SageMC every day. Lots of people do. Stating it's unusable is just, well, wrong.

[CollinR]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

I for one would not like to see "BIG" changes to the UI. I like it the way it is. The only thing I would change is to have nielm's Dynamic Menus built into the Default STV. The small changes they have made to the UI so far are just fine.

x2

And the options for multiple columns and tables in XML like the menus are configured now.

[unkyjoe]

Having used all of them out there, Sage is the best, most stable, and most DRM free program of it's type.

Having said that I agree the UI is a little dated, but very functional.

I switch between it and the SageMC stv as they both have some things I refuse to live without.

With the upcoming addition of the USB Hauppauge HD adapter it will serve all of my need for some time to come.

I have been using sage for a little over a year and it that time I have seen significant updates and improvements to the core system, in addition to onlne video, better ripped DVD intigration etc.

And the HD extender has now made my life so easy I wonder how I lived without it before, I hated running computers to watch TV. The imbedded units are the best thing to come along.

I guess I am a fan

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Julianus

This thread is to draw atention to evolution of SageTV, mainly that there is none.
SageTV has new releases but the changes are only bug fixes. No significant changes.

Installer for WHS.
Addition of the Placeshifter.
Addition of support for the HD extender.

I'd say some significant things have changed.

The SageMCE project is a nice idea, but in the end is a playground for hackers. It is not usable for a regular person. It is not part of the regular SageTV installation. I see nice work done on top of SageMCE by a lot of people, but none that I can install. The date of the last download is from 2 years ago. To me this suggest that some people are using a the SageTV as a framework because they hate the SageTV UI so they build a completely new UI around it.

flachbar is updating SageMC on a regular basis.
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17979

[gblinckmann]

Stagnant, heh?

Well, I started out with the 4.0 version when we were close to 5.0. We've gotten Placeshifters and MVP's as extenders. Sage now runs on Macs and Linux in addition to Windows. It's also running on Windows Home Server.

We now have ATSC and QAM recording. HD extenders that can decode about anything that you can throw at it. We've already seen a big hint of an input device that's coming this spring to get us HD cable, satellite, FiOS, whatever, with no DRM restrictions.

I like the UI the way it is, really. I haven't added the SageMC since I don't really want it.

If that's stagnant, I'm all for it!

[Patilan]

Originally Posted by Julianus

The UI is extremelly dated. Take a look at Vista MCE this is how a fresh UI should look for a Media Center.

Well then go use Vista MCE!

If you really think SageTV is dead, then what are you even doing here?

I am sick of people who keep demanding bells and whistles, and "flashy" things, and changes for changes sake. I HATE such changes. The more companies deliver to "flashy" demands, the crappier and buggier products we get.

What Sage should do instead is concentrate on all the bugs and stability issues they introduced in the latest versions, and iron them out. That would really make SageTV stand out, way above all that bloatware that's floating around.

Yours,
Patilan

[IVB]

It is not possible for me to detest and spit on a UI more than I spit on the MS view of the world.

If you really want a fresh & clean UI, then THIS is how it is supposed to look. Fortunately for me, I use SageTV, where this is possible. MCE users cannot remotely do this, and VMC users require some serious hacks in order to do this.

Note the lovely screen with all "now available" content, including recently recorded shows, upcoming recordings, a scan of what's on my favorite XM channels, plus what's on the main CD stream. I've also got my security system, weather forecast, the temperature outside my house, and the state of the receiver. I can control anything from anywhere.

And there is absolutely zero chance that M$ will ever allow something close to this. Well, maybe in 6-9 months, but by then i'll have been using this screen for nearly 2 years.

Dead indeed

[Opus4]

I suppose SageTV's evolutionary model could be viewed as punctuated equilibrium or phyletic gradualism, depending on your point of view, though either way I agree with the above posters that its evolution couldn't be considered dead. The observer's point of view makes one model appear to be the dominant mode of change -- punk eke appears to be the case for the release versions, while gradualism seems to apply to the internal builds. In reality, those models are not completely separate, but are, in fact, related to each other, with the different appearances affected by what changes a user happens to see as time goes by.

In my opinion, SageTV isn't following the creationist model, though, since I've noticed that it takes a lot more than finger snapping and wishful thinking to make changes occur -- I've yet to start working one day only to find that some new feature has been magically added to the default STV while I was sleeping and I have a feeling that the other developers haven't noticed anything like that in their code either. Every once in a while, a completely new product (species) appears suddenly to the outside world, as if by magic, but in reality those products started off small and were untenable on their own in the development stages (what use is half a conditional in the STV or just a power adapter for the HD100?), but by the end of their early evolutionary stages, they were released into the wild as new products like Placeshifter, the STX-HD100, and various core capabilities & STV features.

- Andy

[DigitalMan]

Originally Posted by IVB

It is not possible for me to detest and spit on a UI more than I spit on the MS view of the world.....

That's hysterical...

I like the Sage UI, and so does my wife, however I really think it needs to be reworked to best take advantage of all the real-estate available on HD.

And music/photos/videos through the media center menu could really use a couple pounds of inspiration and perhaps 10 pounds of perspiration.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by Julianus

The SageMCE project is a nice idea, but in the end is a playground for hackers. It is not usable for a regular person. It is not part of the regular SageTV installation. I see nice work done on top of SageMCE by a lot of people, but none that I can install. The date of the last download is from 2 years ago.

The last update to SageMC is less than one month old, SageMC6.3.6b, http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/down...do=file&id=141 . Ignore the "date added" notation, its from when that download page was created, it doesn't get updated when the files get updated.

[bialio]

Originally Posted by Julianus

The SageMCE project is a nice idea, but in the end is a playground for hackers. It is not usable for a regular person.

If you can't install SageMC (which is very complicated - you have to unzip a .zip file into a directory) - then you don't have any business trying to have an HTPC. Not everyone likes SageMC, which is fine. But it's very easy to use. Anyone can do it.

btl.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Opus4

I suppose SageTV's evolutionary model could be viewed as punctuated equilibrium or phyletic gradualism, depending on your point of view, though either way I agree with the above posters that its evolution couldn't be considered dead. The observer's point of view makes one model appear to be the dominant mode of change -- punk eke appears to be the case for the release versions, while gradualism seems to apply to the internal builds. In reality, those models are not completely separate, but are, in fact, related to each other, with the different appearances affected by what changes a user happens to see as time goes by.

No, that is hysterical.

Not what it's saying, but how it's said, our local wordsmith at work again

[Brent]

Originally Posted by bialio

Not everyone likes SageMC, which is fine. But it's very easy to use. Anyone can do it.

btl.

even me!


Installing SageMC is NOT difficult if you can follow instructions. And it's well worth it imho.

[stryker]

I've tried some of the alternatives out there and have come to the conclusion give me function and stability over bells and whistles any day!

[ybrew]

My family prefers the default UI. I do as well (over the SageMC).
I wouldn't change much over the default. I would like the highlighting to be better when scrolling through the guide or sage recordings. Sometimes it's difficult to know which recording is selected because the highlighting is so light.

But the UI is still very good and my wife and 5 year old have no problems navigating anything.

[Khristopher]

Originally Posted by bialio

If you can't install SageMC (which is very complicated - you have to unzip a .zip file into a directory) - then you don't have any business trying to have an HTPC. Not everyone likes SageMC, which is fine. But it's very easy to use. Anyone can do it.

btl.

I know I struggled with installing SageMC. My god, what a friggin chore! It took me a whole 10-15 seconds while I waited for WinRar to unzip everything. I think SageMC is a testament to the sophistication of SageTV and it's ability to take anything you throw at it.

I will also agree that the default look of Sage does leave a little to be desired, and honestly it's what drove me to BeyondTV when I first started researching HTPC software. Had I taken time to look under the hood instead of just the paint job, I would have gone with Sage. Oh well...lesson learned!

I've only been using Sage for a short while, but even in that time I've seen consistent fixes/improvements. I think you can use the analogy "slow and steady wins the race". I'd rather have a piece of software that is continually improved by small steps rather than introducing a huge feature and then lots of bugs along with it.