Sky via DVB S cards directly - any advice?

[johnw]

A quick query. I have a test box running Sage 6.3.3.157 on Java 1.6.0_01 on which I am testing a FireDTV S2 firewire tuner and a T-Rex 4.60 CAM.

The CAM programming process went well and it now decrypts NDS with no apparent problems.

The first channel scan pulled back few channels but the next one appeared to go very well and, with the subscription card in the CAM, and paired appropriately, most Sky channels appeared to have been found.

Testing bore that out; however there are a number of issues which I don't understand for which I would welcome some advice:

1. The scan which I carried out using DVB viewer pulled back a number of channels missed by Sage. There seems little pattern in the difference; most times Sage missed one or two channels, some encrypted and some not. Only in a few cases did Sage not bring back any of the channels for a particular frequency (although that was the case for 11488000). Indeed, in a few cases Sage brought back some channels missed by DVB Viewer.

2. When I looked at the details of the scan done by DVB Viewer, there are a number of parameters that do not appear in the sage .frq file. Does that mean that there are further tuning parameters held by sage in a different file?

3. The frequencies shown in the DVB Viewer data appear to be at a lower level of accuracy than those in Sage, For example, the DVB Viewer for the Disney Channel is shown as 10861 whereas the Sage data is held as 10861750. Are the Sage frequencies generally correct?

4. A number of channels which DVB Viewer receives and which also appear in the Sage .frq file nonetheless return no signal in Sage. Checking the Sage frq file against the DVB Viewer data reveals no obvious discreppancies. Again, does that mean that Sage holds other data elsewhere. If not, what might account for the differences? This has left me unable to receive directly the Sports Channels such as Sky Sports 1. The only way that I can receive them is by mapping the channel SP1 to 401 rather than the normal channel.

5. The reliability of recieving any particular channel , even where the channel scan has been a success, is not 100% on the test box. Sometimes when I boot up the test box and insert the sky card it will receive a picture for (say) BBC1. At other times it won't. Closing down the Sage app and relaunching sometimes sorts it out but at other times not.

On the positive side, the PQ is massively improved where it works. Similarily, the BBC HD channel (C4 HD doesn't scan!) is wonderful even where viewed on a remote Sage client elsewhere on the Gb LAN.

So, a bit like the curate's egg. I'm sure I'll get there in the end but I would welcome any observations or tips - the time for HD Freesat is approaching.......

John

[PeterC]

I have just started using a TechnoTrend S3200 S1/S2 card with an Oasis2 CAM. The Oases CAM worked with SKY straight off with no programming required.
DVB Viewer scans more channels and does appear to be more reliable when changing to encrypted channels.

I have found Channel 4 HD and BBC HD although I can’t watch Channel 4 HD, I wonder if it needs the Sky HD subscription.

I believe Stéphane is working on a network encoder which uses DVB Viewer as a recording engine, this might hopefully solve some of the problems Sage has with the encrypted channels.

I have only had this setup for a few days but its looking promising so far. If it proves too unreliable I will put my subscription card back in my SKY+ box.

[bartley9]

I see quite a few posts from people going to DVB-S with sky but I have not seen any explanation as to how they are solving the card update problem.

Do people just keep going until it times out i.e. they get recording failures or do you just put the card back in every 4 weeks or so to keep it up to date? If you put it in the sky box abritrarily do you have a problem with the DVB-S card not recording any shows?

There seems to be a window with both scenarios where you will fail to record. I just can't understand how you manage this.

Anyone got an explanation

[Alfiegerner]

I haven't tried this yet myself but my understanding is that once every 4 - 6 weeks you leave the card in your STB overnight to update its keys. Then it is ready to go back in your DVB-S card for another 4 - 6 weeks. Not ideal but not so much hassle that that it would stop me considering doing this.

[Bacon2002]

Hi,

My experience with SageTV and a TechnoTrend TT-S3200 is, so far, varried, often not great.

Sometime whilst setting up SageTV the S3200 is recognised as a DVB-S card sometimes not.
Sometimes channel scanning works, sometimes not.
Sometimes decryption (t-rex cam) works, sometimes not.

I am using the latest 5.0.0.12 drivers although I have tried 5.0.0.2 and 5.0.0.6 but I seem to have the same problems with whichever drivers I use.

Also I've noticed that after using SageTV (normally after it has not responded properly, most/all of the time) the S3200 stops working and the CAM cannot be accessed (that is to say the CAM does not decrypt channels and the S3200 no longer work on other software such as TT-Media Centre, ShowShifter, WatchTVPro etc) until I turn the computer off for a while and then restart.

I am beginning to think that SageTV just doesn't work properly with DVB-S, which is a real shame because I have an MVP which I was hoping to use.

Does anyone know if SageTV will be updating the DVB-S element of the software or of any temporary fixes for these problems.

Has anyone managed to get SageTV to work consistently with a DVB-S? If so what setup and setting are you using?

Thanks,

David

[Mark SS]

It works pretty reliably for me with a TT3200 card and Dragon CAM. There are one or two channels that just won't tune (ParaComedy +1 and 2) and others which have annoyances due to multiple video streams. SkySports for instance which will sometimes tune to the SkyBet subchannel but change channel and back a couple of times and it eventually picks the right PID.

BBCHD works fine but I have no joy in Sage or DVBViewer with the DVB-S2 channels like 'HD Retail Info' (doesn't require HD sub) or Channel 4 HD (may require sub, not sure). Others have reported success with HD channels in DVBViewer:

http://www.satellites.co.uk/satellit...ox-months.html

When I get time I'll probaby give NDSCam another shot with DVBViewer, particularly as StephaneM mentioned he's trying to write a DVBViewer plugin for Sage.

http://dvbn.happysat.org/viewtopic.php?t=38864

If you're having no luck at all with a DVB card, check to see if its sharing IRQs. Some cards get flaky, in my case a Cinergy 2400i DVB-T played up until it was sharing an IRQ with a new video card I'd installed.

[Lucas]

Originally Posted by bartley9

I see quite a few posts from people going to DVB-S with sky but I have not seen any explanation as to how they are solving the card update problem.

I either leave the card in the SageTV PC until I am no longer able to open encrypted channels, then I move the card into the digibox overnight and move it back to the PC the next day.

or every 4-5 weeks, move the card to the digibox preventively.

It works just fine.

[John@TunerUK]

So, apart from the card update problem, does anyone actually have a reliable setup? I've just purchased sky with a view to putting it through sage, and even though I've been reading the forum for a few months now, I'm struggling to find complete answers to a few questions. I I hope that if I perhaps fire them into the mix, someone would be kind enough to explain. Perhaps those who follow would find the answers handy too.

1. I have a sage system running 100% reliably on freeview, so what exactly is needed to add sky?

2. Presuming that I'll need at the very minimum a DVB-S card, a CI, and a CAM; Is there anything else I'll need? To program the CAM or update firmware for instance?

3. I currently have a standard def subscription with some mixes. Is it worth buying a high def (S2?) card to be future proof?

4. Is there any hardware with known issues? Or for that matter, any that are known for their reliability?

4. With my SD subscription, will I actually get and free HD channels?

5. How exactly do I go about getting an EPG for sky? And are there any step by step guides?

6. Once I have an EPG, how does it update itself, or is it something that I have to update every few days?


Here's hoping that the answers will help quite a few people like me

[PeterC]

My TechnoTrend S3200 and Oasis2 CAM is reliable and I have had no problems with it. I found that it does not like switching between different applications and I always power down if I try it in any other application. I did not need to program the CAM but I have only a basic Sky subscription, it might need to know the serial number for premium channels.

I get BBCHD and LuxeHD but cant seem to get Channel4HD although I always view Sage via MVPs so until I can get a HD extender I cant watch them anyway.

You will need to setup the EPG with an XMLTV importer, I dont think you can get it over the air with satellite yet.

All this is well worth the effort and I prefer it to Sky+.

[John@TunerUK]

Well, it's definitely my next step with Sage. Do you have a link to where you bought your card, CI and CAM from y any chance? I've had a good look on google, but one of the larger retailers seem to stock it.

[PeterC]

I got my TT card from the DvbShop (http://www.dvbshop.net) and my Oases2 CAM from Pulsat (http://www.pulsat.com/).

I currently load my viewing card back in the Sky receiver on a Sunday night and back in the PC Monday morning every Two weeks, this works out to be between Two progams I record off Sky, I also have Two dual DVB-T cards to handle most of my recordings. Its early days for me but I have had no problems with this technique so far.

[John@TunerUK]

Excellent, cheers for that. I'll have a very similar setup by the sounds of it.

[jsimo01]

Hello All,

A bit of a newbie at this but have also been experiencing some problems with this! My configuration: Technotrend S2-3200 + CI with a T-Rex CAM (running Predator Firmware version 3.64) and Sky subscription + Movies.

I have used DVB viewer successfully to decode encrypted channels and pair the Smartcard with my Sky Digibox Serial No. so that I may view movie channels and it works like a dream! However with Sage it has been very troublesome just scanning the channels and getting them to tune which is a pity as this looks like a brilliant package; is it just poor DVB-S support or more hardware oriented?? I cannot view many of the encrypted channels on my subscription, I can get the movie channels, just missing E4 and lot of others from entertainment mix. E4 looks like a really poor signal, yet E4+1 perfect?? any advice?

Many Thanks,

John

[johnw]

I'm still trying to get DVB-S working reliably with Sky. I have loaded the most recent version (6.3.10) onto my text box and used the best of the .FRQ files that I have generated to date. This time, some of the channels that worked before now don't work (like BBC2 and Sky1). Other channels loose sound after about 2 seconds (such as MTV1). It all seems very flaky and not realy fit for production. Are my problems more associated with the CAM (see first post for details) or is it more that Sage is not sufficiently mature with DVB S to cope? Does anyone have any ideas??

John

[Lucas]

Can't say really where your problems are. There are different methods for each DVB-S card in SageTV so it could be that support for your particular device is not there yet.

For the TT S3200 that I have with a 4.60 TRex it is quite OK. So overall from my point of view I can't justifyibly say that DVB-S in SageTV is not mature enough.

You 'll have to file a support request and maybe Qian can have a look at your issues.

[PeterC]

I only had problems with my setup if I used a different application such as DVBViewer and then used Sage without first powering down the PC.

But other then that I have had no problems, I have only tested it with a basic Sky subsription though.

[abe]

[QUOTE=johnw;260209]A quick query. I have a test box running Sage 6.3.3.157 on Java 1.6.0_01 on which I am testing a FireDTV S2 firewire tuner and a T-Rex 4.60 CAM.

I am currently looking to buy a fireDTV S2 tuner also.
The planned installation is to have a PC running sagetv as 'Server' downstairs with the relevant tuner cards/boxes attached, then feeding up to 4 computers (mac and PC) in other parts of the house (IE local network eth or wifi) running sagetv client or placeshifter.

I have spent the last few days reading various posts by markss and others regarding the tt 3200 and HVR 4000 cards but i do not recall seeing a stable/reliable DVB S direct installation to watch free AND pay sky TV (SD and HD)

is this because...
a) a DVB-S direct setup with pay and free channels doesn´t exist?
or
b) it did, but; because of the relatively recent addition of HD (S2) cards the playing field has been moved and the software/configurations are just catching up?

when i say 'working reliably' i simply mean that (after initial configuration) the end users experience is as reliable and 'straightforward' as watching a sky box. IE no restarts, no visual/aural clicking or blipping, no crashing.


I have a friend who (and i'm sure others do too) uses sagetv with a sky box in [New Zealand] and is happy. But my interest is in the potentially increased picture quality for SD, and the addition of HD as its use becomes more widespread.
Unfortunately i need to build a system which is suitable for any old technophobe to operate and that means reliability is number one.

all thoughts are very welcome!

[PeterC]

My Sage setup is very stable and I have had no problems with encrypted Sky channels using my Oasis2 CAM.
I have not tried any S2 channels yet and I only have a basic Sky subsription.

The only thing I have to remember is to put the viewing card back in the Sky box overnight every few weeks to keep it updated.

[John@TunerUK]

Mine is really stable too. I'm also using the Oasis 2 CAM, with a Technotrend 3200 S2 card with CI.

[abe]

OK, thats good to hear, I´m still waiting for the fireDTV box, but i´ll post back sometime in the next month to let y'all know how it's going.

cheers