DVBViewer Recorder: Network encoder

[SyrA]

Hi !

Now that ive destroyed my BTV server and let the family in on the new SAGE machine i have som trouble testing stuff during the evnings. I dont know if thats a good or bad thing. They seem to like our new PVR software anyway.

A completely other question.. Can i run dvbviewer (and your recorder) on a other PC than the sageserver ? How should i set that up if answer is yes ?
This would take the testing to the next level.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by SyrA

Can i run dvbviewer (and your recorder) on a other PC than the sageserver ? How should i set that up if answer is yes ?

You should be able to do it.

Install DVBViewer and the recorder on another PC and set up the recorder to use an IP address/port that your SageTV computer can access (so don't use 127.0.0.1). The DVBViewer Recorder service should be run with an account that can access network resources (or you can use the standalone recorder)

On your SageTV machine, you need to use UNC path for the TV recording directory (so as the encoder machine can write to it).

In C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\LM Gestion\DVBViewer Recorder on the DVBViewer PC, you'll find the "Sage Tuner Properties.txt" file. This is the template for including a network encoder in the Sage.properties file on your SageTV machine. When copying these lines into Sage.properties file you need to replace :

* $GUID$ by a numeric value of your choice that is unique (that is it must not be equal to other encoders ID alread present in Sage.properties. For instance 123456 is ok)
* $NAME$ by a friendly name for your encoder
* $IP$ by the IP address of your encoder
* $PORT$ by the port used by your encoder
* $PSRECORD$ by true if you want to record MPEG, by false if you want to record Transport Streams

Edit the Sage.properties file while SageTV is shut down. When all is ok in the Sage.properties file, restart SageTV after you started DVBViewer recorder on your other PC.

However, for testing purpose : it will be easier to install SageTV on your DVBViewer PC until all is ok and then make your HTPC use the encoder.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Mark SS]

Ok so firstly, I'm an idiot! When I setup the encoder as a tuner I used an existing XMLTV source for Sky, which of course had logical/physical mappings to the DVB-S frq file. As soon as I cleared the mappings I was up and away!

* Configure the recorder to enable audio/video
* Start the standalone recorder
* Start SageTV in windowed mode
* Start a recording in SageTV
* Switch to DVBViewer and choose to close the graph (View -> CloseGraph)
* In DVBViewer the channel should not be displayed anymore.
* Make sure that in SageTV the channel continue to be recorder and played back normally beyond the point where you choose to close the graph.
* Stop the recording in SageTV
* Start another recording in SageTV on a different channel (same transponder as the previous channel)
* Verify that the recording start normally

Followed these steps and it worked! It always work for the first two channels as described in your steps but further changes seem to cause problems.

1) Sometimes DVBViewer carries on recording after you tell Sage to stop

2) Sometimes the channel change doesn't work. Sometimes 'close graph' in DVBViewer and then trying again gets it to work.

3) Sometimes the channel sort of changes i.e. the DVBViewer status bar shows the name of the channel you've chosen but the recording doesn't start.

4) The bit I'm REALLY interested in getting to work almost does, HD channels. If I choose Channel4 HD in Sage, DVBViewer starts recording and displays video but it never appears in Sage. I stopped the recording but DVBViewer continued to record. I shut down DVBViewer and then played the file in Sage and it worked. DVBViewer recorded it in ts format although I hadn't ticked that option in your recorder config, perhaps theres an option in DVBViewer I've missed?

Looking good with just a few kinks to iron out, thank you for your efforts!

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Mark SS

1) Sometimes DVBViewer carries on recording after you tell Sage to stop

Are you sure about this? I guess you mean that channel is still displayed in DVBViewer. But the recording is stopped (what the recorder is doing is creating a record timer, if you stop the recording in SageTV the timer in DVBViewer should be deleted). However in version 1.3 with audio/video enabled, when the recording stops, DVBViewer will continue to tune the channel.

2) Sometimes the channel change doesn't work. Sometimes 'close graph' in DVBViewer and then trying again gets it to work.

This shouldn't be an issue. My recorder have a "restart" feature (mine is set for 15 sec). If the recording file hasn't reach 200 KB within 15 sec, the recorder will stop the recording and restart it. It always works for me.

3) Sometimes the channel sort of changes i.e. the DVBViewer status bar shows the name of the channel you've chosen but the recording doesn't start.

shoud also be cured by the restart feature of the recorder (it will restart the recording until it has really started). Though you have to find the right "timing". If found mine by measuring the time it takes for the signal to be decrypted. If you use a small restart value you may end restarting the recording endelessely, if you use a too large restart value, you may not restart a failed recording (DVBViewer will still dump some data on the disk even when there is no audio / video decrypted)

4) The bit I'm REALLY interested in getting to work almost does, HD channels. If I choose Channel4 HD in Sage, DVBViewer starts recording and displays video but it never appears in Sage. I stopped the recording but DVBViewer continued to record. I shut down DVBViewer and then played the file in Sage and it worked. DVBViewer recorded it in ts format although I hadn't ticked that option in your recorder config, perhaps theres an option in DVBViewer I've missed?

The transport stream check box only purpose is to create the right encoder properties for the sage.properties file. So basically the "encode_digital_tv_as_program_stream=true/false" => true means MPEG, false means TS. Once the encoder is added to the sage.properties, checking or unchecking this does nothing (unless clicking on "Add to SageTV" button)

Now, when SageTV submit the recording it submit also the filename, this is the filename extension .ts or .mpg that will force TS or MPG recording in DVBViewer.

However, I do not have access now to H.264 HD streams, maybe DVBViewer refuse to record H.264 in other format than TS (that's maybe why SageTV wasn't displaying anything, it has requested MPG but was given a TS instead... check the logs to be sure).

Anyway I recommend using TS format unless you have too much difficulty to play them in SageTV...


So basically you are 100% sure that when using "CloseGraph" this doesn't stop the recording within SageTV as:

* You started a Live TV recording, it was displayed both in SageTV and DVBViewer
* You used DVBViewer "CloseGraph" feature, DVBViewer stopped playback
* The playback was not in any way stopped in SageTV long after "CloseGraph" was used.

We are ok about this?

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Mark SS]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

* You started a Live TV recording, it was displayed both in SageTV and DVBViewer
* You used DVBViewer "CloseGraph" feature, DVBViewer stopped playback
* The playback was not in any way stopped in SageTV long after "CloseGraph" was used.

Yes, this worked exactly as you described. I'll do some further testing tonight on the other issues and grab the logs at the same time.

[Whitey]

Where are the logs stored when using debug mode?

Thanks

Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Where are the logs stored when using debug mode?

DVBViewer debug log is here : C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\CMUV\DVBViewer\debug.log

[Whitey]

Thanks. Here is a copy of my log. Channel changes have speeded up in some cases since I set DVBViewer to record in .ts format rather than mpg, but some channel changes are still very slow.

Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Thanks. Here is a copy of my log. Channel changes have speeded up in some cases since I set DVBViewer to record in .ts format rather than mpg, but some channel changes are still very slow.

From the log, you have a 2 second delay (mean value) before signal is decrypted. So normally, you should have exactly the same delay in SageTV + the SageTV delay for network encoding (by default it is 1,5 sec)

So if you still have 2 min delay, this is not right. You have to enable debug log in SageTV to see what is happening. For enabling debug log in SageTV:

* shut down SageTV
* edit the Sage.properties file and add this line : debug_logging=TRUE (you can also add this line in SageClient.properties)
* restart SageTV and tune a channel
* close and shut down SageTV right after channel playback started

The logs will be in C:\Program Files\SageTV\SageTV\sagetv_0.txt and eventually sagetvclient_0.txt (this is for the UI if you are using the service)

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Whitey]

I have attached my sage log file. I hope you can spot something in there to help speed up encrypted channels changes.

Also is it possible to change audio PIDs from within sage?

Thanks again

Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

I have attached my sage log file.

Okay, now we need to correlate this info with DVBViewer logs and DVBViewer recorder logs.

For instance: for Big Brother USA, SageTV submitted the job at 22:43:25 and started playback at 22:43:45, so 20 sec. later. Now we need to know where this delay come from.

For Good Year: SageTV submitted the job at 22:43:46, and started playback at 22:45:13, so 87 sec. later.

Also is it possible to change audio PIDs from within sage?

Yes by using the onscreen menu during playback (Esc key on your keyboard) and choosing the audio language.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Mark SS]

Everything appears to work using ts as the recording format. I've attached the logs from an attempt using mpeg and from what I can see it looks like you were right, Sage is requesting an mpeg but DVBViewer is recording a ts.

With the HD channel DVBViewer is using ~50% CPU (AMD4200 dual core) even when the graph has been closed but thats easily solved with new kit.

Does it look feasable to create a version that will work like the standalone recorder but have it close the graph when the record has started? If so, I've got to get SkyHD, another DVB-S card and new mobo/cpu order!

[bjkiller]

Originally Posted by Mark SS

Everything appears to work using ts as the recording format. I've attached the logs from an attempt using mpeg and from what I can see it looks like you were right, Sage is requesting an mpeg but DVBViewer is recording a ts.

With the HD channel DVBViewer is using ~50% CPU (AMD4200 dual core) even when the graph has been closed but thats easily solved with new kit.

Does it look feasable to create a version that will work like the standalone recorder but have it close the graph when the record has started? If so, I've got to get SkyHD, another DVB-S card and new mobo/cpu order!

Mark, Now you can easy create step by step guide how to setup DvbViewer + NDSCAM + DvbViewerSageRecoder + Sage for Sky/SkyHD, it's will helps alot for begginers.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Mark SS

Everything appears to work using ts as the recording format.

Great

With the HD channel DVBViewer is using ~50% CPU (AMD4200 dual core) even when the graph has been closed but thats easily solved with new kit.

this could be a problem... As I have no H.264 broadcasts here yet I cannot verify this (I hardly get 1% CPU with DVBViewer for MPEG2 SD even with Audio/Video enable + closing the graph). However, when enabling Audio/Video memory usage inscrease as well, and closing the graph doesn't release the memory... Though I would be curious to know what those 50% CPU usage is for when the graph is closed??? (You can maybe try on DVBViewer forums, though I admit that DVBViewer dev. are not very helpful for special requests...)

Does it look feasable to create a version that will work like the standalone recorder but have it close the graph when the record has started?

Version 1.4 is released. "CloseGraph" is called as soon as the recording starts (I hope it is not too soon, we'll see...)

I see that you have also a Cinergy 2400 card, you can also use it with the DVBviewer recorder it works great. On my HTPC the recorder works very well recording on my three tuners at the same time : the two Cinergy Input, and the TT S2 3650. Though I don't enable audio/video so you may want to keep an eye on memory usage if you go with multi tuners through the recorder (SageTV UI + SageTV Service + DVBViewer + Comskip = a lot of memory, for me it is ok with 2GB RAM)

Regards,
Stéphane.

[bjkiller]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Great

this could be a problem... As I have no H.264 broadcasts here yet I cannot verify this (I hardly get 1% CPU with DVBViewer for MPEG2 SD even with Audio/Video enable + closing the graph). However, when enabling Audio/Video memory usage inscrease as well, and closing the graph doesn't release the memory... Though I would be curious to know what those 50% CPU usage is for when the graph is closed??? (You can maybe try on DVBViewer forums, though I admit that DVBViewer dev. are not very helpful for special requests...)

As I know SkyHD is not H.264, is MPEG2 stream.
but the real perfomance issue that you use hardware CAM, and Mark uses software NDSCAM. I not yet tested on DVBViewer, but on MyTheatre+NDSCAM NDS3 encrypted SD channel takes like 20-25% on dual core Intel CPU. I purchased DVBViewer and today I will test the configuration DvbViewer + ndscma with SD channel, and HD may be on next week.

[Whitey]

Originally Posted by bjkiller

As I know SkyHD is not H.264, is MPEG2 stream.
but the real perfomance issue that you use hardware CAM, and Mark uses software NDSCAM. I not yet tested on DVBViewer, but on MyTheatre+NDSCAM NDS3 encrypted SD channel takes like 20-25% on dual core Intel CPU. I purchased DVBViewer and today I will test the configuration DvbViewer + ndscma with SD channel, and HD may be on next week.

Sky HD channels are H.264/ac3. I still don't see the advantage of using a software CAM over a hardware one if you cannot record multiple channels at the same time. I have used them in the past and found them very unreliable, especially for unattended recordings.

Whitey

[bjkiller]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Sky HD channels are H.264/ac3. I still don't see the advantage of using a software CAM over a hardware one if you cannot record multiple channels at the same time. I have used them in the past and found them very unreliable, especially for unattended recordings.

Whitey

Here, in Israel we have no other options, only NSDCAM able to decode the YES/YESHD channels.

[Mark SS]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

Version 1.4 is released. "CloseGraph" is called as soon as the recording starts (I hope it is not too soon, we'll see...)

I see that you have also a Cinergy 2400 card, you can also use it with the DVBviewer recorder it works great.

The native DVB-T support works very well so I'll leave the Cinergy cards configured as they are. In fact the native DVB-S support has been working perfectly with the TT-3200 card and Dragon CAM but using DVBViewer and a softcam looks like I'll be able to access SkyHD (DVB-S2) and use multiple cards with one subscription card.

[Mark SS]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Sky HD channels are H.264/ac3. I still don't see the advantage of using a software CAM over a hardware one if you cannot record multiple channels at the same time. I have used them in the past and found them very unreliable, especially for unattended recordings.

I was able to record multiple channels on the same transponder so am expecting to be able to use multiple cards. Trying to decide on whether to get one of the new Blackgold cards (2xDVB-S/S2 + 2xDVB-T) or try the FiredDTV cards.

[Whitey]

Originally Posted by Mark SS

I was able to record multiple channels on the same transponder so am expecting to be able to use multiple cards. Trying to decide on whether to get one of the new Blackgold cards (2xDVB-S/S2 + 2xDVB-T) or try the FiredDTV cards.

Well if this works then I may be tempted to try a softcam again. Personally I would go for the FireDTV. I know they're expensive but I have two and they work great and the support is very good. On the other hand, my two technotrend cards have been awful and the drivers often crash. I have no experience of the blackgold cards

Whitey