Need Help: Fios or Cablevision?

[rwc]

We are moving into a new house, and so we have to change "providers"...

I currently have comcast with 1 "digital cable" box going into a pvr-150 and coax going into a pvr-500.

This setup works for now (in the future I'd like to do all HD w/ hdpvr's--but that's after I get more $'s)....

At the new house though, I can't keep comcast adn what I've read about Cablevision isn't "good".

Can Fios work in a similar fashion to Comcast? (Would I need 3 stb's?) How easy is it to get it to work?

Thanks!

rwc

[davefred99]

I recently upgraded to Fios in my house. I still am under contract with Direct TV so I could not make a complete switch over yet. So I just got the basic/Locals package on Verizon Fios for $12.99 a mos. I am using my HDHR to capture all digital locals and Local HD off of the Fios and all my other stuff from my DTV (2) boxes via 2 pvr15o cards. Its kinda the best of both for now.
More to the point once you install the FiOS hardware its just like digital cable in that it uses Qam for all channels. If you did not know it was FiOS you would it was cable. They use the same copper wires and mostly Motorola cable boxes as most US cable companies do. Only difference is the source is FiOs to your home, then its just another cable/Qam signal throughout the house.
Hope that helps, Dave

[mattdcknsn]

One thing to note about FIOS, I just got a notice in the mail saying that they are stopping all analog broadcasts. Meaning that you will have to have a STB in order to get any programing. They are going all digital.

From a performance standpoint they are very good. I get a good 15 Mbs down and a steady 2 Mbs up speed. Their HD offerings are very good as well. For me they are much better than the alternative (Adelphia or whatever they are calling themselves now).

[jasmithvr6]

Originally Posted by mattdcknsn

One thing to note about FIOS, I just got a notice in the mail saying that they are stopping all analog broadcasts. Meaning that you will have to have a STB in order to get any programing. They are going all digital.

From a performance standpoint they are very good. I get a good 15 Mbs down and a steady 2 Mbs up speed. Their HD offerings are very good as well. For me they are much better than the alternative (Adelphia or whatever they are calling themselves now).

I just pre-registers for FIOS TV for installation on 9/30/08 It's been a long time coming as I've been running FIOS internet for 18+ months and have been very pleased with the performance. Of course entering into a new realm outside of traditional cable is a bit unnerving and I was hoping for some insight from the forum. First a little background on my system.

Currently I have standard analog cable (no STB's) split across 2 PVR 250's. I have a separate antenna line connected to a Fusion Lite 5 HD card where I receive OTA HD. All this is pushed through a P4 2.4ghz CPU on an Intel 865PERL MB with 1gb of RAM and a 500gb drive. Video card is an ATI 9800pro 128mb with a Zalmann heatsink. Whew.

Now for my questions. When I spoke with Verizon about the install, they said I MUST have a STB for each TV regardless of whether I opt for the high-def package. I assume this is true even when connecting to Sage? Can someone please confirm? I'm not a big fan of STB's and would like to avoid muddying the waters unless it's necessary. I'd also like to hear how others have connected FIOS TV service to Sage (HDHR, HVR-1600's, Haupaugge PVR, etc). From there, I might have more questions but at this point I'm trying to do some fact finding. Thanks!

[cslatt]

Originally Posted by jasmithvr6

I'd also like to hear how others have connected FIOS TV service to Sage (HDHR, HVR-1600's, Haupaugge PVR, etc). From there, I might have more questions but at this point I'm trying to do some fact finding. Thanks!

I just got FIOS TV setup a few weeks ago. I'm using a HDHR to record the major networks and a HD-PVR connected to their HD box to record all the other channels. Works well for me because 90% of what I record is off the major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX) so having only 1 tuner that can pickup the other stations isn't a big issue.

Basically, Verizon is phasing out analog service so they're sending stuff either over Clear QAM or encrypted. If it's Clear QAM you can pick it up with a HDHR, otherwise you're stuck with HD-PVR to STB.

[jasmithvr6]

Originally Posted by cslatt

I just got FIOS TV setup a few weeks ago. I'm using a HDHR to record the major networks and a HD-PVR connected to their HD box to record all the other channels. Works well for me because 90% of what I record is off the major networks (ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX) so having only 1 tuner that can pickup the other stations isn't a big issue.

Basically, Verizon is phasing out analog service so they're sending stuff either over Clear QAM or encrypted. If it's Clear QAM you can pick it up with a HDHR, otherwise you're stuck with HD-PVR to STB.

Thanks cslatt. So it sounds like unencrypted QAM can record through either HDHR or a tuner card such as HVR-1600. How do you record and watch encrypted QAM through Sage? I'm not familiar with the HD-PVR. I would think if you run the FIOS line through the STB to unencrypted HD QAM stations and then connect to a tuner card, you would be able to record and watch encrypted HD through Sage. Am I missing something?

[bcjenkins]

FiOS != CableVision They are not the same. Both companies employ different practices for compression, etc. I know VZ has a "trial" period if you're planning on testing the waters.

Personally, I use FiOS with 3 HVR1600s running DCT700 cable boxes and OTA feeds. There is a bug in the current 1600 drivers in Linux which does not support scanning with the Maxlinear tuner. Otherwise, I am using an HDPVR to pick up the slack on "premium" HD channels. FiOS has excellent picture quality. I am not aware of issues with CableVision, but other companies have compressed HD down to put more channels on their pipe. VZ has enough pipe.

B

PS 15dn/15up is good enough to run an HD extender somewhere else with enough download and watch HD streams, ripped DVD folders as if you were sitting in your home

[jasmithvr6]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

FiOS != CableVision They are not the same. Both companies employ different practices for compression, etc. I know VZ has a "trial" period if you're planning on testing the waters.

Personally, I use FiOS with 3 HVR1600s running DCT700 cable boxes and OTA feeds. There is a bug in the current 1600 drivers in Linux which does not support scanning with the Maxlinear tuner. Otherwise, I am using an HDPVR to pick up the slack on "premium" HD channels. FiOS has excellent picture quality. I am not aware of issues with CableVision, but other companies have compressed HD down to put more channels on their pipe. VZ has enough pipe.

B

PS 15dn/15up is good enough to run an HD extender somewhere else with enough download and watch HD streams, ripped DVD folders as if you were sitting in your home

I think I'm making some headway here in terms of understanding all this. Can you provide a diagram that walks through your setup? I'm trying to make heads or tails of how a STB fits into the Sage equation. I have an antenna and currently pickup OTA HD. If I can capture local HD via an HVR-1600 on Clear QAM, then the antenna can go in the trash (not literally, but you know what I mean ). The more important question is how to pull in QAM (encrypted) channels. How do I go about accessing those through Sage, preferrably without a STB from Verizon? I've been reading about Cablecard compliant TV tuner cards (aka DCR...digital cable ready cards). It seems that these cards along with a Cablecard can receive encrypted QAM, however it looks like the technology is only mono-directional at this point. Meaning FIOS customers who use Cablecards cannot access VOD, weather, programming guide, etc.

Maybe I'm looking for the "all-in-one" solution that doesn't exist. Where is the digital TV tuner card that receives Clear QAM and decodes encrypted QAM, while allowing multi-directional service with the cable company...all working seamlessly through Sage without a STB? Is that too much to ask?

[bcjenkins]

http://tvwhere.files.wordpress.com/2...pg?w=225&h=300

• SageTV Server
• DLink DGL 4300 Router
• NetGear Prosafe 16 port GB managed switch
• Vonage adapter
• 3 DCT700 for Digital SD
• 1 NIM100 - provides IP connectivity to the COAX QIP. This is for VZ features I don't use but didn't want to take a chance on breaking the QIP. Not needed if you have a VZ coax router.
• QIP6200 for HD using HDPVR through a Windows Network encoder (moving to Linux soon)
• Antenna is roof mount feeding 3 HVR1600s for OTA (See earlier post for QAM issues in Linux)
• IR Blasting provided by 4 Port CommandIR II Internal. (Works great)

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by jasmithvr6

Maybe I'm looking for the "all-in-one" solution that doesn't exist. Where is the digital TV tuner card that receives Clear QAM and decodes encrypted QAM, while allowing multi-directional service with the cable company...all working seamlessly through Sage without a STB? Is that too much to ask?

You are not going to be able to 'pull-in' the encrypted QAM channels like you think. You have to use an analog capture device (either A normal SD tuner card with S-Video input, or an HD-PVR). You hook either the S-Video (SD capture card) or the Component (HD-PVR) to your capture device, and use an IR Blaster (USB-UIRT or the built-in blaster of the HD-PVR) to control the STB. When sage needs to record something off a given channel, it starts recording from the appropriate capture device, and sends out the IR channel change command to the STB. Not overly elegent, but it is the only way to watch the 'encrypted' channels.

Cablecard tuner cards are not really an option. They work only in pre-built systems, and only with Vista Media Center. The recordings are DRM'd, and cannot be used elsewhere, also cannot be recompressed, reprocessed, or analysed (no comskip).

The PQ on the HD-PVR is quite good (I've heard), so for $250, it isnt' necessarily a bad option.

[ToxMox]

I have FiOS and am in an all digital market. Analog tuners are useless in my situation and will be for all FiOS customers once all their markets are switched to all-digital. Not that they had any real channels besides the broadcast networks and some other random local stuff in analog anyways.

I am using 2 HDHomeRuns and an HVR1800 to be able to record 5 clear QAM stations at a time which is basically just the local broadcast stations. I then have 2 HD STBs connected to 2 HDPVRs controlled by a USBUIRT to be able to record any of the other channels. Been working well for me.

Leftover tuners I no longer have a use for are as follows
1x Aver m780
2x PVR-USB2
2x PVR-500
2x Nvidia DualTVMCE
1x PVR-250

EDIT: I shouldn't say the analog tuners are completely useless in an all digital market. If someone really wanted to they could record the analog coax feed off an STB controlled by an IR blaster and recording channel 3 or connect S-Video and RCA audio. I realize some of this is covered by some of the above posts.

[cslatt]

Originally Posted by jasmithvr6

Maybe I'm looking for the "all-in-one" solution that doesn't exist. Where is the digital TV tuner card that receives Clear QAM and decodes encrypted QAM, while allowing multi-directional service with the cable company...all working seamlessly through Sage without a STB? Is that too much to ask?

Correct - what you're looking for doesn't exist. The cable companies have seen to it. The only way to decrypt the encrypted digital channels is with a STB or a CableCard. CableCards are currently unidirectional, don't work with Sage and even if they did work with Sage, the only way to get one is to buy a pre-built machine from a vendor like Dell.

If you don't care about HD, get an Analog cable package while they're still around. If you do care about HD and want more than just the major networks, prepare to get cozy with a STB or 2.

[ToxMox]

Originally Posted by bcjenkins

Analog tuners are not useless. They can still capture signals even via coax from a STB.

B

I mentioned that in my post.

[Kev]

It's worth while noting that Verizon will give you up to 2 digital converter boxes for free (although they don't advertise it), or at least they do in MA. The digital converter boxes are equivalent to the SD STB's with the exception that they don't have the guides and on demand capabillities (which is sort of useless through Sage anyway). That is what I did and works out well. Although I also signed up for there multi-tuner DVR which wasn't much more then the regular box and now hardly use sage at all (better picture and less headaches... but less capabillity), other then for connecting my house sound system to the computer and viewing pictures (which isn't the best in sage.. clips the end of songs and is slow to scroll through pictures).

[bcjenkins]

Originally Posted by ToxMox

I mentioned that in my post.

Umm.. it was early, I was still asleep, I just learned to read?

My apologies

B

[jasmithvr6]

Originally Posted by cslatt

Correct - what you're looking for doesn't exist. The cable companies have seen to it. The only way to decrypt the encrypted digital channels is with a STB or a CableCard. CableCards are currently unidirectional, don't work with Sage and even if they did work with Sage, the only way to get one is to buy a pre-built machine from a vendor like Dell.

If you don't care about HD, get an Analog cable package while they're still around. If you do care about HD and want more than just the major networks, prepare to get cozy with a STB or 2.

Although it's not exactly what I wanted to hear, I appreciate the info. I'd like to get HD where ever possible, so it sounds like I'll need to run a HD-PVR with a STB. If I run one HD-PVR and one STB, I assume that means I can only record/watch 1 encrypted HD channel at a time. How can I get the flexibility (as I currently have with analog) to watch/record 2 or more HD premium channels concurrently? Could I connect 2 or more HD-PVR's to 1 STB?

I'm trying to figure out the best setup when I introduce the new hardware. Currently, my Sage box (HTPC) is in the TV stand under my HDTV. I have all TV recorded directly to the HTPC and access movies and music from a file server across the network. My thought is to convert the HTPC to a Sage server where all files are recorded/accessed on the network (TV, movies & music). In terms of hardware in the proposed Sage server, I'm thinking of a pair or more of HVR-1600's and an HDHR. At the TV level, an HD-PVR connected to the STB and an STX-HD100. Thoughts?

[cslatt]

Originally Posted by jasmithvr6

Could I connect 2 or more HD-PVR's to 1 STB?

Sadly, you would need 2 STBs to go with 2 HD-PVRs.

Originally Posted by jasmithvr6

At the TV level, an HD-PVR connected to the STB and an STX-HD100. Thoughts?

I'd put the STBs and HD-PVRs inside the cabinet with the server. No need to clutter up the visible area (assuming they'll fit). The STBs will be controlled by the IR blasters that comes with the HD-PVRs so it's not like they have to be out where you can point a remote at them.

[ToxMox]

Originally Posted by cslatt

The STBs will be controlled by the IR blasters that comes with the HD-PVRs so it's not like they have to be out where you can point a remote at them.

Actually, I don't think you can use more than 1 Hauppauge blaster per computer. I use a USBUIRT to control both my FiOS boxes connected to HDPVRs.

[jasmithvr6]

Originally Posted by cslatt

Sadly, you would need 2 STBs to go with 2 HD-PVRs.

Per TV?!?! This is getting more expensive by the minute.

Originally Posted by cslatt

I'd put the STBs and HD-PVRs inside the cabinet with the server. No need to clutter up the visible area (assuming they'll fit). The STBs will be controlled by the IR blasters that comes with the HD-PVRs so it's not like they have to be out where you can point a remote at them.

Hmm...when you say put the STB and HD-PVRs inside the cabinet with the server, I guess I should be more specific where the "cabinet" will be located. I plan on putting the server and network gear in a separate room in the basement and my TV will be on the main floor upstairs. Will a remote like the URC-MX850 be able to control the STB and HD-PVRs in this setup? How does the USB-URIT fit into the equation and will I need a IR base station to make this all work? Since I'm contemplating not having a PC anywhere near the TV (just an STX-HD100), my guess is the USB-URIT option won't work.

Sorry for barrage of questions...I guess I should have tried to stay on top of the new technology. Kids have a way of changing all that.

[davefred99]

Originally Posted by jasmithvr6

Per TV?!?! This is getting more expensive by the minute.



Hmm...when you say put the STB and HD-PVRs inside the cabinet with the server, I guess I should be more specific where the "cabinet" will be located. I plan on putting the server and network gear in a separate room in the basement and my TV will be on the main floor upstairs. Will a remote like the URC-MX850 be able to control the STB and HD-PVRs in this setup? How does the USB-URIT fit into the equation and will I need a IR base station to make this all work? Since I'm contemplating not having a PC anywhere near the TV (just an STX-HD100), my guess is the USB-URIT option won't work.

Sorry for barrage of questions...I guess I should have tried to stay on top of the new technology. Kids have a way of changing all that.

Most everything has been covered by previous posters but I thought I would throw in my setup for reference.
I switched over to Fios about a month ago. I was using a a combination of Direct TV, OTA and Fios basic (2-49) which include the QAM Locals. I am now using FIOS exclusively and my setup is as follows.

My Sage Server is in a closet and connected to an 8 port dlink switch. I also have an HD-Homerun in the closet connected to Fois on both tuners for QAM & HD Locals. I have 2 Hauppage 150 mce capture cards. One card is connected to a DCT700 basic Fios stb. The Second card is is connected to a QIP-6200 HD Fios STB via Svideo for now. I will eventually add an HD-PVR for true HD capture. I am using firewire to channels on the QIP 6200 HD stb. I am using an mce blaster with StephanM's 3rd part program to change channels on the DCT-700 because it does not have firewire or serial connections.
I don't use my SageTV server for viewing since its in a closet Instead I have 1 HD-100 media extender for my main HD TV and 2 MVP media extenders for my SD only Tv's.
With my present setup I can record all my HD & SD Locals with off the HD-Hr and any HD or SD programming off the QIP-6200 STB via Svideo so its still downrezed SD but looks very very good. And the the remaining SD only channels off the DCT-700. I find this to be a very good setup as most of my HD recording is Local Tv anyways and even though the other HD channels are downrezed they are look better pretty darn good and can be viewed in wide screen if I want by setting my Tv to wide format. I am waiting to purchase an HD-PVR until all the bugs get worked out. I am not comfortable spending $250.00 on a beta product.
Also I was able to get 3 DCT-700 standard stb's from verizon because of there analog conversion. I use the other 2 as back ups on my spare sd tv sets with the MVP's. I also rent one QIP6216 FIOs DVR for the main HD set because its easier for my wife and she uses it for all her daytime soaps and stuff and just timeshifts it. It also frees up SageTv for recording more long term content. Its sort of a his and hers thing.
Hope that helps some.
Dave