HDHomeRun / SageTV unintuitive channel mapping

[mkanet]

No, the R5000s do not share any of the same channels; dedicated only for premium channels not available to the HDHRs.

There's no mention in any of the new instructions that there is a requirement to add a logical channel # in the HDHR setup if the channel name is changed. If this is true, the software shouldn't allow the user to change just one value. Manually defining a logical channel # without knowing what's pulled down by zap2it in sageTV is really not a good way to do things. There should be only one place to see and define all channels you see in the guide. Doing this in the sageTV lineup is a possibilty; but not a good place to permanently maintain changes like these. The chances are I might choose a channel that's already taken. Lets see if this is a requirement or not.

Bottom line, there's definitely some changes that need to be made in both software for this stuff to work at least as good as the previous versions; with no ambiguity in channel mapping process.

Originally Posted by Opus4

Do the R5000 tuners use the same cable lineup/channels? The channels don't need to be enabled for the other tuner; the scan process for the HDHR channels just needs to be able to map to a channel on a lineup already using that Zap2it-provided station name.

If you don't provide a logical number, it will just use what is there already or some made-up number from the physical channel number if the channel has to be added. Since you already have to look up the channel name for the HDHR channel editor, adding the number pretty much consist of changing another column. This is sort-of the price to pay when using QAM tuners -- it requires user input on a lot of the mapping info.

I was going to suggest contacting support about that one... but I've already sent an email asking whre that came from. You may be asked for a debug log created during the tuner setup.

- Andy

[Opus4]

I think I mentioned above that remapped channels are kept intentionally so that users who have spent time mapping them don't have them removed automatically when they remove/re-add a tuner.

I will probably be adding a way to remove all of a lineup's remapped channels as an option in Channel Setup, but for now, here is how you can do it manually:

1. Get the name of the lineup where you want to clear all the remapped channels. This is listed on these menus: Source Wizard Summary, Source Details, and Channel Setup, of course. If the lineup isn't currently in use, just continue to the next step. Exit SageTV, including the service.
   
   Make a backup copy of Sage.properties.
   
   
2. Search Sage.properties for the name of the lineup. You will find it on a line like this:
   epg_data_sources/<some number>/epg_name=<lineup name>
   
   
3. Look a couple lines down from the above property line to find the provider ID:
   epg_data_sources/<some number>/provider_id=<ProviderIDNumber>
   
   
4. Search the properties file for lines containing the <ProviderIDNumber> seen in the previous step. Delete any lines with "overrides" and the <ProviderIDNumber> as part of the property name, such as, but not limited to:
   epg/lineup_overrides/<ProviderIDNumber>=xxxx
   epg/lineup_physical_overrides/<ProviderIDNumber>=xxxx
   
   
5. Save the properties file & restart SageTV.

- Andy

[mkanet]

Hi Andy, I've actually done that before in the past when I had just a couple of lineups (thats why I said earlier without having to go into the properties file. I have 6 lineups with similar overides in many of them; and pretty hard to tell apart. Its basically a huge mess of number. This is why I wanted to stay out of the properties file. I'll just wait to be able to do it in the STV.

I was able to fix the problem with getting unpredictable channel mappings. It is REQUIRED for the user to enter both a unique channel name AND respective channel # (using a decimal point format).

It all boils down to the latest HDHR software and documentation need work.

There's no documentation stating that it's required to enter a logical channel number along with the channel name; or, the user is going to end up with a mess of channels that simply dont change to the right channels. The software shouldn't allow the user to enter one field of data without the other for each channel. The software also shouldn't allow to add duplicate channel names; as the duplicates can get randomly ignored.

The latest HDHR software should have been released as a "test only" product at best.

Thanks for helping Andy, hopefully this information will be helpful for other people until HDHR updates their instructions and/or software.

Originally Posted by Opus4

I think I mentioned above that remapped channels are kept intentionally so that users who have spent time mapping them don't have them removed automatically when they remove/re-add a tuner.

I will probably be adding a way to remove all of a lineup's remapped channels as an option in Channel Setup, but for now, here is how you can do it manually:

1. Get the name of the lineup where you want to clear all the remapped channels. This is listed on these menus: Source Wizard Summary, Source Details, and Channel Setup, of course. If the lineup isn't currently in use, just continue to the next step. Exit SageTV, including the service.
   
   Make a backup copy of Sage.properties.
2. Search Sage.properties for the name of the lineup. You will find it on a line like this:
   epg_data_sources/<some number>/epg_name=<lineup name>
3. Look a couple lines down from the above property line to find the provider ID:
   epg_data_sources/<some number>/provider_id=<ProviderIDNumber>
4. Search the properties file for lines containing the <ProviderIDNumber> seen in the previous step. Delete any lines with "overrides" and the <ProviderIDNumber> as part of the property name, such as, but not limited to:
   epg/lineup_overrides/<ProviderIDNumber>=xxxx
   epg/lineup_physical_overrides/<ProviderIDNumber>=xxxx
5. Save the properties file & restart SageTV.

- Andy

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mkanet

I was able to fix the problem with getting unpredictable channel mappings. It is REQUIRED for the user to enter both a unique channel name AND respective channel # (using a decimal point format).

It all boils down to the latest HDHR software and documentation need work.

There's no documentation stating that it's required to enter a logical channel number along with the channel name; or, the user is going to end up with a mess of channels that simply dont change to the right channels. The software shouldn't allow the user to enter one field of data without the other for each channel. The software also shouldn't allow to add duplicate channel names; as the duplicates can get randomly ignored.

I said in my first reply above to check to see if you had duplicate channels in the HDHR's channel editor: "I would sort the HDHR channel editor by channel name to make sure you don't have duplicates", and then pointed it out again in my 3rd reply: "And, there are 2 versions of KTVUDT in the .scn file, so it has 2 copies in the HDHR channel editor, which is what I asked about above. One of them should not be KTVUDT."

Troubleshooting would be easier for both of us if the initial suggestions are followed.

I thought the need for unique channel names was obvious, but I'll edit my instructions again to make that more clear. WCBS is not really the same as WCBSDT, even if they do broadcast the same shows. One may be SD-only & the other HD, for example. And, if the same name is used for multiple channels on a single HDHR tuner, it will probably find the same channel each time on the lineup & map to that single one, leaving only 1 of those channels at the end of the scan.

However, there is no requirement to enter a channel number. I strongly encourage people to enter the channel numbers because it helps make sure the logical number ends up where the user wants it in SageTV. You can change it from what Zap2it shows for a lineup to match the logical number on another linuep, for example.

And, there is no need for decimal point channel numbers -- you can use 2.1 or 2; your preference. I use different types of numbers for different channels & they all work.

Ugh. I just realized that if someone gave the same number to multiple channels for a single HDHR tuner, that might cause a tuning or mapping problem too.

One of the biggest things that many people forget, though, is that if ABC is channel 5 on one lineup, but channel 421 on another lineup, only 1 of those numbers will appear in the guide.

- Andy

[mkanet]

If I dont enter a logical number near the respective manually entered channel name, it will not get transfered to the line up correctly. At least, this is true for my setup; and very consistent. This was my biggest problem.

Originally Posted by Opus4

However, there is no requirement to enter a channel number. I strongly encourage people to enter the channel numbers because it helps make sure the logical number ends up where the user wants it in SageTV. You can change it from what Zap2it shows for a lineup to match the logical number on another linuep, for example.
- Andy

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by mkanet

If I dont enter a logical number near the manually entered channel name, it will not get transfered to the line up correctly. At least, this is true for my setup; and very consistent.

When you say "not correctly", what does it do? Is the channel not usable, or simply at a logical number that you didn't expect?

I think that it may end up using the CH:## value from the channel's line in the scn file as the logical number. If so, this is exactly why I encourage specifying the channel number, but it shouldn't prevent tuning the channel.

- Andy

[mkanet]

Many of them tune to invalid "blank" channels, or wrong channels, or simply not showing up in the lineup. There may be mulitple reasons for this behavior. However, I seriously doubt all this is unique to just my setup; or user error; worth noting is the remarkable consisteny in behavior.

Putting a logical channel number near the respective channel name gave me predictable and consistent results.

Originally Posted by Opus4

When you say "not correctly", what does it do? Is the channel not usable, or simply at a logical number that you didn't expect?

I think that it may end up using the CH:## value from the channel's line in the scn file as the logical number. If so, this is exactly why I encourage specifying the channel number, but it shouldn't prevent tuning the channel.

- Andy

[Opus4]

OK -- thanks for the feedback on the channel numbers. That may indicate a problem somewhere... but I'm assuming that you have probably spent enough time on it and wouldn't want to create debug logs/native logs with the channels setup w/o a channel number in the HDHR channel editor in order to reproduce the issue. And, at the moment, I don't have time to try it out again on my system... so I'll just agree that people really ought to enter channel numbers.

- Andy

[VIdbEO]

Thank you Opus4!

You hit the nail on the head. HDHR is putting the SCN file into the VirtualStore folder. I simply copied these files to the main Sage folder and vuala it scanned the channels in less than a minute. Do you know who I should email to identify this problem? I can't be the only one having this issue. Thanks again for all of your help!

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by VIdbEO

You hit the nail on the head. HDHR is putting the SCN file into the VirtualStore folder. I simply copied these files to the main Sage folder and vuala it scanned the channels in less than a minute. Do you know who I should email to identify this problem? I can't be the only one having this issue. Thanks again for all of your help!

The VirtualStore is a pain to deal with. SiliconDust writes the .scn file & they probably put it in the VirtualStore when UAC is on. The service runs in a mode that doesn't use the VirtualStore, but non-service mode might.

Maybe SiliconDust should just put the scn file in both places.

- Andy

[mkanet]

Hi Andy, I have one last question. How do I remove "Undefined Source Name"? It looks like there's junk left behind for whatever reason. (Properties file attached)

Thanks in advance,
Michael

[Opus4]

That's part of the epg_data_sources/###/xxx property series, so my guess would be to remove the properties for its ### series.

I have no idea where it came from, but my work system has the same thing. If I find out where it came from, I'll make another post about it.

- Andy

[rfutscher]

Originally Posted by VIdbEO

Thank you Opus4!

You hit the nail on the head. HDHR is putting the SCN file into the VirtualStore folder. I simply copied these files to the main Sage folder and vuala it scanned the channels in less than a minute. Do you know who I should email to identify this problem? I can't be the only one having this issue. Thanks again for all of your help!

Maybe that is my problem.

When I set up my HDHR I edited the properties file to allow me to have separate lineups for each HDHR. The first line up got program guide info right away. The copied line ups took several days.

When I rescaned in HDHR to add a new channel, that info didn't appear properly in Sage.

I deleted a tuner and re added it to get a copied lineup. When I made changes to it the changes appeared in other lineups. I discovered that the new channel was Spanish so I just left it turned off to get every thing to work.

There seems to be problems with multiple HDHR tuners and copied channel guides.

[MattHelm]

Why when they were making the HDTV spec, didn't they include station/channel ID????