Rookie User with Dish Network

[RonGee]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of planning a SageTV network in my home. We have a network in place already, wired for Cat5. All of my TVs are currently SD; I suppose we'll upgrade to HD at some point. I have Dish Network. 4 receivers in total; 2 single receivers, and a dual receiver (One IR remote and one RF remote) that includes a DVR.

What I'd like to do is put all of the receivers in one place with the server, and then use the Sage media extenders on my network to reach out to multiple TVs. I'm thinking a server with 4 video cards to capture the 4 receiver streams, and the something like a 1TB drive to hold the data. The server will be dedicated to the media application. As I understand it, using SageTV will render the DVR on the satellite receiver moot, which is fine; it's been flaky for about a year anyway.

Now, it looks like the video cards come with remotes, but I'm not sure exactly how they'd be used if I put the receivers and the servers in some remote location on the network. There's a remote associated with the Sage media extender as well, correct? In another recent thread, it sounded like one of these remotes can control the satellite receiver to instruct it to change channels, and that's where it gets a little sketchy for me. I've read some things here about "IR blasters", but I'm not sure exactly what that is. I have a little gadget here that takes the IR remote signal and changes it into an RF signal that can be sent to a similar device in another room to allow that remote to work out of range of the IR receiver. Is that what is being referred to?

My goals are basically to have, say, 6 TVs hooked up to the system, and have them all able to request playback from the DVR simultaneously, request recording up the limit of the 4 receivers, and request live play once again within the limit of the 4 receivers.

How does SageTV manage DVR recording when there are multiple sources available, in this case, 4 receivers?

Thanks for any advice. Looking forward to getting this all set up. :-)

Ron

[swats]

OK, I will take a stab at some of these.

First of all, you will need some kind of multi-switch in order to put all your receivers in one spot (like a splitter for satellite). Secondly, SageTV doesn't support the second tuner of your dual-tuner box, since Sage has no way to send out channel change commands via UHF. You can set the remote address on each receiver to be different, this would allow you to use a single USB-UIRT (www.usbuirt.com) to change the channels from Sage.

By "video cards" I assume you mean capture cards? If they are hauppauge you can use the remote that comes with them to control Sagetv. You will need 1 capture card per supported tuner in Sage (read NOT the UHF tuner).

To give you an idea, I have 2 Dish HD receivers, 1 HD Homerun (2 over the air HD tuners), an Avermedia A180 (OTA HD) and a Dvico Fusion 3 (OTA HD). Sage handles all the sources transparently. You set up each channel group (in my case DIsh and OTA HD) and Sage displays them all together in a unified channel list and EPG. Very nice.

You didn't mention how you would view Sage on those 6 TVs? Will you be using SD or HD extenders, or client PCs?

[RonGee]

Hi, and thanks for your response.

In answer to your question, I'm planning on using the SageTV Extenders, one for each TV.

The handling of the inputs is what I'm unclear about (well, ok, amongst other things). Let me make up an example. So, I've got my server, and what I was thinking about was putting a video capture card into the server, one for each input source. So, if I had 4 Sat receivers (let's ignore the UHF problem for now), I'd put 4 video capture cards into server and plug a receiver into each one. So, they now have the ability to do "something".

Let's say I'm sitting at one of the TVs with a SageTV media extender on it. I'm sitting there with a bunch of remotes. The extender, I think, has a remote, and then I've got the remotes that come with the video capture cards (I think). What I'd like to be able to do is control the 4 receivers from there, tell them to record, or play live TV from a selected receiver, or just play some DVR content. From the remote location, do I just tell SageTV what I want to do, and it takes care of it? That is, tell it, at 9:00pm to change the channel on receiver 3 to Channel 7 and record the show. Or, even more simply, select a show to record from the show guide and SageTV takes care of the rest?

I guess I'm unclear how much control I have from the remote extenders as opposed to being right at the server. I probably should spend more time reading about SageTV features as well. That'll be my next stop :-)

Thanks.

Ron

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by RonGee

The handling of the inputs is what I'm unclear about (well, ok, amongst other things). Let me make up an example. So, I've got my server, and what I was thinking about was putting a video capture card into the server, one for each input source. So, if I had 4 Sat receivers (let's ignore the UHF problem for now), I'd put 4 video capture cards into server and plug a receiver into each one. So, they now have the ability to do "something".

So far so good.

Let's say I'm sitting at one of the TVs with a SageTV media extender on it. I'm sitting there with a bunch of remotes. The extender, I think, has a remote, and then I've got the remotes that come with the video capture cards (I think).

Nope, just the extender remote. You don't control the tuners, you don't control the receivers. All you control is the Extender. You tell it what you want to watch, be it a recording, an imported video, or a show that's currently airing ("Live TV").

The Extender then requests that "airing" from the SageTV server, which then uses it's scheduling and playback logic to feed the right video file to the extender, and if necessary, tune a receiver and start a recording.

What I'd like to be able to do is control the 4 receivers from there, tell them to record, or play live TV from a selected receiver, or just play some DVR content.

You have no direct control over the recievers from the extender, in fact, you as a user don't even know there there, how many there are, or what their capabilities are. All you know (as a user looking at the interface with a remote) is the capabilities of the SageTV system as a whole.

From the remote location, do I just tell SageTV what I want to do, and it takes care of it? That is, tell it, at 9:00pm to change the channel on receiver 3 to Channel 7 and record the show. Or, even more simply, select a show to record from the show guide and SageTV takes care of the rest?

You tell it, "I want to watch CSI." That's it. If it's already recorded (or currently recording) it starts playing, if it's currently airing and not recording, Sage tunes a free receiver, starts a recording and starts playing. If it's in the future, it asks if you want to record it or add a favorite.

[RonGee]

Hi Stanger,

And thanks. I have to admit, I was sitting here reading your answer and saying "dang, that's pretty cool"! I guess I'm easily impressed. :-)

I think that that answers my question for now. Now it's off to the other forum areas to ask about video capture cards and the rest. There are so many to choose from, and I just have to guess that sticking 4 of them into a server may not always be a piece of cake. :-) But, I'm sure other people have gotten it to work.


Thanks again for your response.

Ron

[stanger89]

Before you go off buying 4 capture cards, remember to make sure to ask yourself what you really want to record. I was recording 4 things (3 HD, 1 SD ) the other night, yet I've only got 2 Dish tuners, two of those recordings were OTA via my HDHR.

I once in a blue moon run into an actual recording conflict (something won't be recorded) with this config, and it's never been anything where something "important" couldn't be recorded.

What I'm saying is IMO and in my experience, it's highly unlikely that you'll actually need to record 4 things off Dish simultaneously. Between the way many "cable" networks run their shows twice a night, and all other considerations, seems you really don't need a farm of Sat tuners. I think 2 Dish recievers + an OTA tuner or two is about the optimal solution.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Before you go off buying 4 capture cards, remember to make sure to ask yourself what you really want to record. I was recording 4 things (3 HD, 1 SD ) the other night, yet I've only got 2 Dish tuners, two of those recordings were OTA via my HDHR.

I once in a blue moon run into an actual recording conflict (something won't be recorded) with this config, and it's never been anything where something "important" couldn't be recorded.

What I'm saying is IMO and in my experience, it's highly unlikely that you'll actually need to record 4 things off Dish simultaneously. Between the way many "cable" networks run their shows twice a night, and all other considerations, seems you really don't need a farm of Sat tuners. I think 2 Dish recievers + an OTA tuner or two is about the optimal solution.

I agree with Stangers assessment (although its pretty rare I wouldn't). I run 1 HD tunder and 2 SD tuners from Dish. I could probably even get away with 1 HD and 1 SD. Otherwise I use OTA tuners for everything else. I have 3 OTA HD (I used to use 2 OTA SD tuners, but realized I never used them except in the rare case Sage would inadverntly record from the SD tuner which would just piss me off). I am sure if you look at your viewing habits, most of the shows that you will actually want to record can be received via OTA which is free. No reason to spend the money on capture cards AND monthly STB rentals when all you need to do is buy some decent OTA capture devices (HDHomerun is a great device) and you are done. Plus there isn't the chance that your STB loses power / channel isn't tuned right / etc. / etc. Its just less hassle.

[RonGee]

Thanks, you guys. Those are all great thoughts. One of the things I have noticed even with my Dish DVR is that because of the multiple showings you mentioned on many shows on Dish, there aren't as many conflicts as I once thought. The Dish DVR just finds the next time the show is on and gets it then.

On the other hand, I do have 3 teenagers at home who have their own viewing habits, which I didn't mention earlier. :-)

Good things to think about. I have to find out more about HD Homerun, which I'm not familiar with yet. And, I'll think more about our actual viewing habits while planning what I'd like to do in the long run.

Ron

[sic0048]

Just an FYI - the HD HomeRun (HDHR) will record OTA digital ATSC signals, or unencrypted QAM cable stations. So it will not be able to record anything from Dish or any other satellite provider.

That being said, I have Dish and also an HDHR. I use the HDHR to record all my local channels in HD. In fact, I don't even pay the $5/mo that Dish wants for locals, because using Sage, the local channels appear on the Sage Guide right along with the Dish channels. So it is completely seemless for the user. They have no idea when they pick to watch NCIS that it is actually coming from the HDHR rather than the Dish.

If you live in an area that gets good OTA signals, or if you subscribe to cable (or even cable telephone or internet service) you can probably use the HDHR just like I am.