Tutorial: SageTV on WHS with 64K clusters in the drive pool...

[S_M_E]

There are a number of people who run SageTV on WHS and use unmanaged drives because of performance issues, especially with HD, with 4k clusters (WHS default) in the drive pool. I've ran SageTV in the pool even before SageTV made an add-in and I've been very happy with it. WHS makes for an excellent OS for a SageTV server for many reasons; centralized storage, redundant storage, the ability to map the WHS shares to SageTV for Videos, Music and Photos while playing them on my TV or PC client through Sage and even remote access to files and supported workstations. Unfortunately, some SageTV users shy away from WHS due to the performance issue mentioned above, stemming from 4k clusters. Fortunately, I've found (inspired by an older thread on the WHS forums by Gerry Plasky) yet another unsupported workaround for those who want an awesome performing WHS/SageTV Server. This is not a tutorial on how to setup or install WHS nor SageTV completely, there is already documentation for both of those.


Please be aware that this is NOT supported by MS in any way, so YMMV...it works for me.

There are now two methods for 64K clusters the pool and one method for converting the D partition. I suggest the "format method" for new installs or when you add new drives to the pool and I suggest the "convert method" for the D partition and when you have a lot of data already in the pool.

(the "format method")
For a *new* WHS/SageTV install
What you need:
WHS with 2 or more drives (This tutorial assumes one 500G drive and two 1T drives for the pool. (the more the better, imho))
TV Tuner(s)
SageTV for WHS (Free 21 day Trial - http://www.sagetv.com/download.html )
WHS Disk Management Add-in - http://www.tentaclesoftware.com/whsdiskmanagement/


What to do:
01) Install WHS along with any internal TV tuners and all drives.
(optional - resize the WHS system drive using one of my other tutorials found here: http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/e...-e9ca88691137/ )
02) Update drivers and various MS patches, etc. (Windows Update)
03) Install the WHS Disk Management Add-in
04) Start the WHS Console and navigate to the WHS Disk Management Add-in tab
05) Turn off Folder Duplication for all shares.
06) Wait for or otherwise ensure that WHS has finished (you can see disk activity in the WHS Disk Management Add-in tab) balancing the storage pool.
07) Using the WHS console, remove both 1T drives from the pool, one at a time, waiting for balancing (like in step 06) after each drive is removed.
08) Add one 1T drive back to the pool and immediately proceed to the next step.
09) Use the Remote Desktop Connection to WHS (or use the monitor/KB/Mouse) and navigate to: Start - Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Computer Management
10) Select Disk Management.
11) Right click the *empty* "DATA" partition and select "Format..."
12) Check the "Perform a quick format" check box and select 64K from the "Allocation unit size:" drop down menu, then click OK and confirm format.
13) In the WHS console, add the "other" 1T drive to the pool.
14) As soon as it finishes adding the drive in the console, return to the Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Computer Mangement - Disk Management tool.
15) Right click the new "DATA" partition and select "Format..."
16) Check the "Perform a quick format" checkbox and select 64K from the "Allocation unit size:" drop down menu, then click OK and confirm format.
17) Reboot
18) In the WHS Console re-enable Folder Duplication on desired shares and add a new share named "SageTV" and turn off duplication for that share. (duplication is now "optional" for the recording share (it needs more testing))
19) Populate your WHS shares with your music, photos and videos, as desired, leaving the "SageTV" share empty

SageTV basic configuration for use with WHS:
20) Install the SageTV Server add-in via the WHS Console and configure Video sources.
21) Use the Remote Desktop Connection to WHS (or use the monitor/KB/Mouse) and navigate to Start - Programs - SageTV and click on the "SageTV" icon
22) In the SageTV menu, select Setup - Detailed Setup - General and click on the "Modify" button for "Video Recording Directories"
23) Point the SageTV "Video Recording Directories" to your new SageTV share. (IE: \\WHS\SageTV ) and click "Continue."
24) Below the "Video Recording Directories" click on the "Modify button for "Media Center Import Directories" and click "Add New Directory"
25) Select "Specify..." and add your WHS "Video" share. ( \\WHS\Videos ) then press Enter on your keyboard.
26) Click "Add New Directory" again, Select "Specify..." and add your WHS "Music" share. ( \\WHS\Music ) then press Enter on your keyboard.
27) Click "Add New Directory" again, Select "Specify..." and add your WHS "Photos" share. ( \\WHS\Photos ) then press Enter on your keyboard.
28) Enable Music for the "Music" share, Videos for the "Videos" share and Pictures for the "Photos" share.
29) Return to the "Setup" menu and select "Refresh Imported Media" and click OK.

You can now listen to your music and view your videos or pictures from Main Menu - Media Center. You can output your WHS/SageTV Server directly to a TV if you have an appropriate video card or an optional SageTV Extender, you can use an optional SageTV Client on another PC on your home network or you can use an optional SageTV Placeshifter Client to watch TV on any computer, even over the internet if you open the appropriate ports on your server and/or firewall.

Note:
If you already have a populated WHS/SageTV box and you want to convert the pool to 64K clusters, you can. You need to have, at least two drives and MORE free space than your largest drive. (if you already have data in the pool it may be faster to use the "convert method")

If you already have data on your server, I seriously suggest that you back it up, just in case. I lost no data but every server is different. You have been warned.

If you only have two drives, start by turning off "Duplication" for ALL shares and then "Removing" your DATA drive (which will force data on to your "D" partition and follow the directions for adding a drive and formatting to 64K clusters above.

Running chkdsk /F on all drives will confirm that you now have 64K clusters.

For additional information, advice or help for WHS or SageTV:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/index.php
http://social.microsoft.com/Forums/e...owshomeserver/

Enjoy!

EDIT:
I now believe that "converting" the D partition to 64K clusters is also desirable, even though it wastes some space, because too many people let the pool get too full before adding more space and WHS is less picky about putting data on the D partition now. Drives are cheap. There are 2 known methods for doing this:

1) Gerry's method is to backup all of the data on the D partition and format the D partition using 64K blocks (like the pool tutorial), then copying the data back to the D Partition but that is a destructive method.

(The "convert method")
2) My method is to use a utility (I used Acronis Disk Director Server Edition (expensive)) to "convert" the cluster size to 64K clusters which is non-destructive. I'd still suggest backing up the D partition, just in case, mine went flawlessly. You can use the "convert method" on the additional drives in the pool as tested by heffe2001.

EDIT2:
I've redone the main tutorial after rmac321 found a bug that nobody else had experienced. ALWAYS remove an existing pool drive with the WHS console and re-add it to the pool before reformatting for 64K clusters. If you are adding a new drive it's already "removed."

YMMV...

[AJ Bertelson]

How good is WHS at redundancy? If I have a drive that allready has information on it can I hook it up to WHS or do I have to reformat it?


Has anyone had a drive fail on them yet in the managed pool section?

[rlvogel322]

What has been your experience with performance of the drives being in the pool?

During the WHS beta I had the recording drives in the pool formatted to 64k and the performance was less than ideal. Now to be fair, I was using the PC as a client and the demigrator would run all the time.

Maybe with the update to WHS and the use of clients this may work better. I may give this a shot and see what happens.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by AJ Bertelson

How good is WHS at redundancy? If I have a drive that allready has information on it can I hook it up to WHS or do I have to reformat it?


Has anyone had a drive fail on them yet in the managed pool section?

It's very good at redundancy, if the share has folder duplication turned on, which is default. If you have a drive with data on it the SOP is to add the drive as unmanaged, copy/move the files to 1 or more shares, then add the drive to the pool. Adding a drive to the pool WILL format it to 4K clusters, if you want 64K clusters, follow the steps in the tutorial after adding a new drive.

I had a drive go bad but it didn't just die. It was causing health warning so I removed it before it failed completely. There are many threads on the WHS forums regarding drive failures and what happens.

Originally Posted by rlvogel322

What has been your experience with performance of the drives being in the pool?

I've never had performance issues with pooled drives but I only have 2 tuners and I only use 1 client.

During the WHS beta I had the recording drives in the pool formatted to 64k and the performance was less than ideal. Now to be fair, I was using the PC as a client and the demigrator would run all the time.

Turning off duplication on the SageTV share helped me immensely. Also the demigrator runs much less now. With SATAII drives, duplication turned off on the recording share and 64K clusters it should have the same performance as a stand-alone, unmanaged, drive with 64K clusters.

Maybe with the update to WHS and the use of clients this may work better. I may give this a shot and see what happens.

It can't hurt to try. I've had good luck with WHS/Sage I can't imagine using another OS for Sage until WHS v2 comes out.

[Peter_h]

Hi, I did this but i'm lost on how to check if the drives are formatted to 64k.

I went to cmd and I typed in chkdsk /f and it ran a report for the c: drive. I can't change seem to change the directory to the drives in the pool. How can I tell?

[gplasky]

Each of your drives will have a different drive letter. Go to the cmd and type d: and then hit enter. The prompt should now say D: and you can type chkdsk /f. Do this for any other hard drives (E:, F:, G:, etc.)

Gerry

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Each of your drives will have a different drive letter. Go to the cmd and type d: and then hit enter. The prompt should now say D: and you can type chkdsk /f. Do this for any other hard drives (E:, F:, G:, etc.)

WHS doesn't assign letters to drives in the pool.

Originally Posted by Peter_h

Hi, I did this but i'm lost on how to check if the drives are formatted to 64k.

I went to cmd and I typed in chkdsk /f and it ran a report for the c: drive. I can't change seem to change the directory to the drives in the pool. How can I tell?

WHS uses mount points for the pooled drives: Try chkdsk C:\fs\<mountpoints>
To find your specific mount points, look in the C:\fs\ folder but don't include the "<" ">" characters.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

WHS doesn't assign letters to drives in the pool.

Right. My bad. Been running out of the pool for so long I forgot.

Originally Posted by S_M_E

WHS uses mount points for the pooled drives: Try chkdsk C:\fs\<mountpoints>
To find your specific mount points, look in the C:\fs\ folder but don't include the "<" ">" characters.

Another way is to let Windows Disk Defragmenter analyze a drive and view the report. Spells out your cluster size plain and simple.

Gerry

[Chriscic]

I'm running WHS with Sage and just I have Sage recording to a non-pooled (unmanaged) drive with 64k clusters.

I'm unclear what the advantage is to running pooled, other than the data redundancy (not important to me for TV recordings anyway although I can see why it might be for some). I guess you can also access your TV files remotely through the WHS homeserver websites, but you can do that through placeshifting regardless. What am I missing? Thanks,
-Chris

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Another way is to let Windows Disk Defragmenter analyze a drive and view the report. Spells out your cluster size plain and simple.

Gerry

Good suggestion. WHS suggests *not* running the stock windows defrag tool on the pool either but just "analyzing" the drive shouldn't hurt. There are 3rd party WHS defrag utilities too.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by Chriscic

I'm running WHS with Sage and just I have Sage recording to a non-pooled (unmanaged) drive with 64k clusters.

I'm unclear what the advantage is to running pooled, other than the data redundancy (not important to me for TV recordings anyway although I can see why it might be for some). I guess you can also access your TV files remotely through the WHS homeserver websites, but you can do that through placeshifting regardless. What am I missing? Thanks,
-Chris

Other than what you mentioned, you're only missing the ability to easily expand the free space by adding more drives, console management and console reporting. When your recording drive gets full, you'll have to do more work if it's not in the pool. Not everyone has placeshifter clients. I suggest turning off duplication for the recording share in the tutorial.

There was a time when keeping the drive out of the pool made sense, for some people, but as I've said in other threads; as far as I'm concerned, the old reasons for using unmanged drives in WHS are now obsolete. I've never had issues with drives in the WHS pool, my server has always been fine. Maybe it's because I use a lot of drives or maybe because my Sage use is fairly light compared to some but, either way, I like WHS/Sage.

[rlvogel322]

Well I decied to give this a shot.

I have three 1TB drives that are WHS managed. I formatted two drives (ones without the system) to 64k clusters. I also have two 320 GB drives outside the pool.

Created a SageTV share with folder duplication "Off". Started recording three HD channels and two SD channels. Verified all five shows were going to the new SageTV share (drive with the most space since I didn't take the two unmanaged out of sage). Played back a DVD on one HD100, listened to music on the other HD100 and started watching one of the HD shows on the MVP (transcoding). Zero blips, stutters or freezes that I could detect. Did this for around a half hour checking each extender here and there. Compskip was running four instances also (quad core) and things were smooth.

For now, I'm convinced this works fine. I'll report back if I find anything new.

[S_M_E]

Awesome, glad to hear it's working for you in HD too. I know it's good, with SD, for me...

[wayner]

I guess one down side to having drives in the pool is that you can't just pop in semi-full hard drives from another Sage machine. I will be switching my Sage server from the regular version to WHS and I wanted to save the content on my hard drive. If I want to put the drive in the pool then I guess I will have to copy all of the files, several hundred Gigs worth, to the new drive.

[S_M_E]

You can add the drive as non-managed, transfer the files to the pool, then add the now empty drive to the pool and format to 64K. While it does take a while longer, it's worth it imo.

[wayner]

I am about to follow your directions for 64k drives for WHS with Sage.

I have not yet installed WHS on my new PC - should I just install WHS with one hard drive and then use your directions to change each hard drive, as I add it, to 64k? Or should I install WHS with the three drives that I currently have available (I will add more drives as I migrate data over from my existing WHS box and my existing Sage PC). I worry that if I install with several other drives WHS will start populating them with data and I won't be able to format them.

What about the system drive - I guess you can't change this. How do you know that the system drive won't hold your TV shows which could cause problems due to the small allocation unit size? Or will WHS not store data files on the system drive if possible.

[rlvogel322]

Whenever I install WHS I alsways use only one drive and then add to the pool after that.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by wayner

I am about to follow your directions for 64k drives for WHS with Sage.

I have not yet installed WHS on my new PC - should I just install WHS with one hard drive and then use your directions to change each hard drive, as I add it, to 64k? Or should I install WHS with the three drives that I currently have available (I will add more drives as I migrate data over from my existing WHS box and my existing Sage PC). I worry that if I install with several other drives WHS will start populating them with data and I won't be able to format them.

What about the system drive - I guess you can't change this. How do you know that the system drive won't hold your TV shows which could cause problems due to the small allocation unit size? Or will WHS not store data files on the system drive if possible.

1) Install all of the drives that you have/plan to use, unless they have data you need. Drives will be formatted on install. Don't copy data until you convert your drives to 64K, then it can't be migrated to the new drives because there's nothing to migrate.
2) Do not convert the system drive to 64K clusters. You can stretch the C partition, if you choose but leave C and D with 4k clusters.
3) You'll tell Sage where to record when you set it up, it won't be the system drive, it'll be the "SageTV" share that you create if you follow the tutorial.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

3) You'll tell Sage where to record when you set it up, it won't be the system drive, it'll be the "SageTV" share that you create if you follow the tutorial.

How can you ensure that SageTV recordings won't go to the system drive? Is not part of the system drive, 480GB out of the 500GB drive that I am using, part of the shared pool? And if push comes to shove then won't this get used by the shared pool?

Or does WHS not use the system drive at all for any sort of shares? If that is the case then what is the point in having a drive larger than 20GB? Or do Computer Backups go on the system drive?

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by wayner

How can you ensure that SageTV recordings won't go to the system drive? Is not part of the system drive, 480GB out of the 500GB drive that I am using, part of the shared pool? And if push comes to shove then won't this get used by the shared pool?

Or does WHS not use the system drive at all for any sort of shares? If that is the case then what is the point in having a drive larger than 20GB? Or do Computer Backups go on the system drive?

WHS will only use the D partition for shares if the rest of the pool gets too full. All of my backups are on the D partition but in some cases WHS will move them elsewhere. 500G is large now but as I've said before, it's better too large for the system drive than too small. I prefer a larger C partition which is why I wrote another tutorial (linked above) on how to do that. If I were building a new WHS, today, with a 500G system drive I'd make the C partition 100G, leaving ~400G for D. You could use a smaller drive but the cost difference between a 320G drive and 500G drive is minimal and depending on how much you use the WHS backup feature, 500G may not be overkill.