Why I don't like the default STV Part #1: The Main Menu

[loomdog32]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

The items in the right panel change depending on which left-panel item is selected (much like the stock UI's Detailed Setup screen), thus collapsing the functions of four or five stock UI screens into one menu. There are some configurable transition effects (fade, scroll, slide, spin, etc.) in how the right panel changes its contents; that's the only bling to speak of. The snowflake watermark is configurable and I change it seasonally. Personally I have no problem at all with the fact that this menu is all text and has the words "Main Menu" at the top. My goal with this design was not to blow anybody's mind or keep up with the competition but to group functions logically and make efficient use of screen space while keeping things clean and simple and easy to understand.

Now this makes 1000 times more sense than the default UI.. My largest complaint really is how navigation works and this seems to solve it (tho I would reword some things, but each their own)

I am using a modified ver of nBlue, with TV, Videos, Music, Pictures, and More... More requiring a password


Kinda curious, but have to ask.. On any of the other htpc apps shown, do any beside Media Center (which uses different Windows Logins) have multiple user support??

[Polypro]

Originally Posted by Brent

Just curious on this - why? Aren't nearly all DVDs movies anyway?

Actually, that was a typo...I meant I like *TV* separated from DVDs.

Karyl, there's a Weather On Main Page import...works well.

P

[aaronb]

Originally Posted by loomdog32

Kinda curious, but have to ask.. On any of the other htpc apps shown, do any beside Media Center (which uses different Windows Logins) have multiple user support??

XBMC supports multiple user profiles

[ToxMox]

Just thought I'd contribute here. I am attaching some mockups I whipped up a couple of years ago of how I would have liked the Main Menu, OSD and other things. Kind of curious what people think. These are not functioning STVs or anything. Just mockups in photoshop.

[wayner]

@ToxMox - I think it makes more sense to have a link to the guide from the main page than to LiveTV.

[ToxMox]

Sorry I should have been more clear. Was looking for more feedback regarding visual appeal. The menu structure was direct from the default STV. Figure I can leave menu structure to people more versed in usability than me

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by ToxMox

Sorry I should have been more clear. Was looking for more feedback regarding visual appeal. The menu structure was direct from the default STV. Figure I can leave menu structure to people more versed in usability than me

I like the graphics you've chosen; very clean, and very easy to discern the symbolism that they represent. It would be easy to make a "home toolbar" on each of the subsequent pages that doesn't necessarily require text for each of the main options.

I like the preview pic on the side, but I'm curious why you have the scroll bars? Overall, it feels a little cluttered; there's information there, but it's not neccessarily information that I would want to see all of the time (like the volume control; I want to see it when I change volume, but I'd want it to go away shortly thereafter).

Speaking of the volume control, I don't like it when key bits of information change location when I go from screen to screen. For example, your volume control is on the right side of the main screen, but the left side of the video playback screen. The icon also changed. Others may have different opinions, but I just think that a symbolic styleset should be used as consistently as possibile throughout an application.

I realize those comments seem harsh, but I do think it's a good effort overall; you've certainly got a talent with photoshop.

[ToxMox]

The elements are all just thrown in to show what they look like. Like those scroll bars are just scroll bar mockups. They don't actually belong on the main menu. The volume bar would only appear when you adjust the volume. I imagine it would slide up then back down.

My intention would be for the volume icon to remain consistent throughout the UI. These are mockups from over the course of several days/weeks so many graphics changed throughout. Some of the graphics are mine and some aren't.

[wayner]

I agree with sainswor99 re: volume - I never use the volume control since I have a digital connection to my receiver and I use the receiver to control volume or on the extenders that are not connected to receivers I use the TV volume.

By the way Toxmox if you are in NJ why do your screenshosts show Global - a Canadian network?

[ToxMox]

Originally Posted by wayner

By the way Toxmox if you are in NJ why do your screenshosts show Global - a Canadian network?

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Until now I have never heard of Global.

[stanger89]

The logo in your screenshots.

[ToxMox]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The logo in your screenshots.

Which logo and which screenshots?

[ToxMox]

Oh...I see it now on the OSD. I just downloaded a screencap of a TV show from the web to use in the mockup. Didn't even notice that until now.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by ToxMox

Sorry I should have been more clear. Was looking for more feedback regarding visual appeal. The menu structure was direct from the default STV. Figure I can leave menu structure to people more versed in usability than me

Part of what I don't like about your mockup is how big the letters are. It reminds me of the 1980's look of my DCT6416, that was designed to run on 19" SD screens. On a large 1080p set, it just looks terrible, with the font taking up too much space and making things look cluttered.

I think a design that recognizes that we often are running on very large high-res displays and is designed to leverage that is very important. too many people miss this.

Also, for family use, a relatively simple uncluttered display with appealing context sensitive backgrounds is very helpful. You want to guide an unsophisticated user to be able to do the common tasks very easily. Perhaps putting the options button or another key would enable additional detail and options to be revealed for the few times it's needed, without cluttering things up for the 99% use model.

Having a content sensitive background provides cues to the user so they instinctively know where they are, and not just by reading what the letters say on the menu. It's one reason why people like XBMC so much, as that principle is embedded in many of their UI designs.

UI's cannot be optimized to do everything well, any more than code. :-) The secret to a good UI is not just deciding how to make common tasks drop dead easy and appealing, but to explictly choose what you are NOT going to optimize for, and use a web UI or selectively revealed menus with more detail in them.

To be really successful, the UI really needs to be optimized for unsophisticated users, and be able to be expanded on demand for the needs of power users. You have to start with the simple first, and then expand it, rather than implement the laundry list of options and then pare it down.

That's my 2 cents anyway.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by ToxMox

The elements are all just thrown in to show what they look like. Like those scroll bars are just scroll bar mockups. They don't actually belong on the main menu. The volume bar would only appear when you adjust the volume. I imagine it would slide up then back down.

Ahh, I get it now.

I like the concept.

* The multiple shades of background are very nice as I could see different people preferring different levels of brightness. I'd prolly go with the first, lighter, one.
* You brought the glassiness of the buttons to rest of the UI which adds a lot of consistency that's currently missing.
* I like you're version of the volume bar better. Having to eye ball the % volume all the time is a bit of a pain so your segmented version makes more sense.
* Good thinking on having a mini version of the main menu helper graphics/text appear in a different location when the Preview window is up.
* Putting a little visual element behind the "Main Menu" is nice and makes it feel like it belongs there more.
* The little halo around the popup menu is a nice touch. I noticed the same thing in XBMC and I thought it was a crazy simple way to make a nice effect with just png transparency.

[TallMomof2]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

I'm 100% with you there, I'm actually working on a SageMC plug-in that does just that.

If you need any help or a tester, let me know. My programming ability is next to nil but I'm willing to learn. I was hoping that someone was working on a plug-in.

Originally Posted by Brent

Just curious on this - why? Aren't nearly all DVDs movies anyway?

I went and looked at my DVD collection and over half the storage area is for TV series. As a Sci Fi geek I tend to rewatch a lot of TV series. Under Video I have mostly all TV series. Under Recordings or TV I have mostly movies. Since FIOS exploded their HD movie channels I've started to record many movies in HD since their video quality is significantly better (in most cases) than my SD DVDs. The only drawback is that I have to record analog audio, because of the HDPVR problems but eventually those will be fixed and I will re-record those HD movies in 5.1.

For me most of my movies are listed under TV and TV under Video/Movies in the main menu. I would love to have the option to be able to look at all TV or Movies no matter their original source as long as they reside on my HDD.

[flashbacck]

My complaint with the default STV main menu is that the items don't seem logical to me. I don't like how the main menu has TV Recordings, Live TV, Program Guide and Schedule recordings as separate items. This is probably due to Sage starting as a TV PVR, rather than a media center. But now that Sage does have additional media features, why are those items lumped into Media Center?

I prefer a structure where all the media types are up front and get their own button, and an extra button for settings. E.g.

TV
Music
Pictures
Videos
DVD
Settings

The simplistic text only style isn't that bad, but I think it's only better with currently playing screen and additional status notes like weather and what's next.

My main complaint with the default STV though, is that the simple menu design gets thrown out the window when it comes to the submenus. Recordings, Music, Videos submenus are all clutter galore with horizontal and vertical menus and sidebars with tiny icons everywhere.

[flashbacck]

ToxMox, isn't your mockup do-able with the layout and theme editor in SageMC?

[loomdog32]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

What really is the difference between the Default STV and SageMC- nBlue theme here??

The menu is STILL 100% TEXT, except SageMC - nBlue theme adds a picture IF there is no currently playing videos and the ability to change the background image easily

It ADDS previous and future recordings with weather along the bottom

The time/date and currently recording logo are still in the upper right corner, tho SageMC - nBlue theme does not have the mouse shortcuts visable

SageMC DOES NOT say Main Menu on it!!!!!!!!


Now the real important difference.. HOW THE MENU IS LAYED OUT!!!
SageMC - nBlue theme is SIMPLE, and EASY TO UNDERSTAND
Sage is COMPLEX, MULTISCREENED and CUMBERSOME

That is the REAL DIFFENENCE!!! Forget about "bling" (although SageMC makes it ALOT easier to add this, IF its wanted)

[S_M_E]

I don't see a menu item for pictures on EP's nor GKusnick's screen shots...