Can one only buy SageTV direct?

[TorontoSage]

I am ready to buy my first SageTV products. I know I can buy them here on SageTV's online store, but I thought I'd see if there are any better prices fore new product anywhere else.

So, I did a search on here, googled the web and checked eBay. Other than 3 or 4 obscure items on eBay there was nothing, which surprised me.

Is the SageTV online site the only place one can buy these products? Also, it seems to me if there is that little on eBay that there must be a lot of satisfied SageTV users!

[reggie14]

You used to be able to buy SageTV licenses at slightly reduced cost (~$5 less) from PCAlchemy, an online store which specialized in HTPC stuff. But, they went out of business recently.

Also, the EULA prevents you from reselling licenses, which is partially the reason for the limited sales on eBay (and, of course, also because people are satisfied with Sage). You do occasionally see extenders on there, but it's pretty uncommon. There's actually two HD100's on eBay right now. I actually thought there'd be more, since the HD200 came out recently.

[TorontoSage]

Wow, that's weird. You'd think at least the hardware would be resold.

I am a Sonos whole house audio system user. Sonos users are an extremely happy bunch. Yet there must be 10-20 Sonos hardware products listed a day on eBay (and they are also available through retailers everywhere, including Best Buy).

does anyone know why SageTV does not take advantage of having a retail or wholesale distribution channel? I assume they are a private company backed by venture capital. They must be doing pretty well!

[reggie14]

Sage is a pretty niche product. And, in a market full of techies, Sage has always attracted the most demanding power users over the average consumers. It's probably pretty hard for all the PC-based DVR vendors to compete with Windows MCE in the retail market, and probably particularly hard for Sage. Plus, I think Sage is pretty small. I'm hoping that they have a big enough customer base that they're stable. I think the extenders give them a big leg up on the competition, but probably a small percentage of PC-DVR users go into it with the desire to connect all their TVs.

[S_M_E]

I wish they sold extenders on newegg, I have an account there and I'd probably pick one or more up, sooner, if they did.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by reggie14

It's probably pretty hard for all the PC-based DVR vendors to compete with Windows MCE in the retail market, and probably particularly hard for Sage.

Why is it hard for Sage to compete in the retail market? Is Windows MCE that good or is it just that Microsoft has such a good distribution channel that Sage just wouldn't be able to get 'shelf' space? Or is it some other reason? There are many examples of niche areas where Microsoft has not been able to compete against smaller companies.

[S_M_E]

I'd imagine they don't sell the extenders at places like newegg because newegg may require a larger production volume than they can handle. I'd imagine they don't sell the SW in retail stores because it's not exactly plug and play and the average consumer at a place like bestbuy wouldn't be able to install the required HW/SW and configure it.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

does anyone know why SageTV does not take advantage of having a retail or wholesale distribution channel?

The "bits in a box" retail sales model (if that's what you're suggesting) is pretty low-margin due to the high costs of printing, packaging, and shipping boxes of paper around by truck. To make money at that you need pretty high volumes, so that development costs can be amortized over a large number of low-margin units.

For low-volume niche products like Sage, the online sales model is much more efficient. The software and manual are freely downloadable before purchase, at near-zero delivery cost, and all the user is really paying for is the license key, which is delivered by email. So sales costs stay low, margins are higher, and it takes fewer units sold to recoup your development costs.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

The "bits in a box" retail sales model (if that's what you're suggesting) is pretty low-margin due to the high costs of printing, packaging, and shipping boxes of paper around by truck. To make money at that you need pretty high volumes, so that development costs can be amortized over a large number of low-margin units.

For low-volume niche products like Sage, the online sales model is much more efficient. The software and manual are freely downloadable before purchase, at near-zero delivery cost, and all the user is really paying for is the license key, which is delivered by email. So sales costs stay low, margins are higher, and it takes fewer units sold to recoup your development costs.

Actually I was referring to the physical boxes - the HD200's. Maybe it doesn't makes sense for SageTV if their volumes are low, but if they were high it would drive the online software sales. I agree that for a company like Sage that software sales in physical boxes don't make a lot of sense.

Does anyone know anything about Sage in terms of their revenues, management team, investors, etc?

[briands]

one issue is inventory... how many stores does Best Buy have? Even one shelf unit in each store would possibly be larger than the total first production run of the HD boxes...

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by TorontoSage

Does anyone know anything about Sage in terms of their revenues, management team, investors, etc?

I'm sure the stockholders know. But since it's privately held, they're not obliged to tell anyone else. You won't find any information of that sort here.

[TorontoSage]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

I'm sure the stockholders know. But since it's privately held, they're not obliged to tell anyone else. You won't find any information of that sort here.

It goes without saying that the stockholders know and that private companies are not obligated to disclose this info. I was just asking, just in case some info had slipped out here and there through some interviews they had done or an ex-employee. Also, often you can find out a lot of information about private companies through Google searches. I was able to find out revenues, units sold per year, employee growth/employee sales through triangulation of various bits of info given out by Sonos (also a private company, and one that occupies another niche - the audio space).

What I have been able to find out is that the two brothers, Dan and Jeff, founded the company in 2002, after Jeff, the CTO, had worked on the software for a couple of years. They're just young guys in their early 30's now. They mention in an interview from 5 years ago that the bootstrapped the company with their own sweat equity (one's wife supported him while he started this venture and the other's fiance let him delay his wedding while starting the company) and a private investor.

To some, they might appear as a small company that maybe doesn't have a lot of staying power. But I think the opposite. The fact that they are frugal, nimble and laser sharp in their focus on this niche market is what is going to allow them to survive and prosper. One doesn't need fancy premises, long term leases, a high investment in operating costs, or an investment in tons of inventory that sits out there on retailers premises (along with the accounts receivable that would have to be carried) to be successful. In fact, the use to operate one of those shared office environments in Chicago, rather than out of their own building or premises, but they now operate out of Inglewood, CA. Only 2 years after they started the company, in 2005, they hired a CEO, Mike Machado. (He spoke at a conference recently where he was also listed as 'Senior Partner', so maybe he's also an investor in the company, although this is a peculiar moniker to use). And guess what Mike Machado's previous position was before SageTV? VP Technology at Software.com, provider of scalable and reliable carrier-class e-mail and webmail software to ISPs, Web portals, and mobile telephone messaging providers. Alas, the founder of Software.com went on to found Sonos, the company I mentioned above that makes my favourite audio product! Prior to SageTV, Mike was the founder/CEO of Mobility.net, likewise providing webmail software to ISPs and Web portals.

By the way, from one of their early interviews I got the idea that they want modest steady growth rather than a trajectory that might start off soaring high but then crashing and burning. They also said they never wanted to grow to a 100-person company. With the hiring of Mike Machado I think they have set their sights higher. They even have their own public relations firm now, sspr.com.

To be successful you just have to have a product that fufils a need, works well and provides a reasonable value proposition along with some good marketing (whether that's word of mouth or in combination with other methods). In the age of the Internet this is especially true.

And Sage appears to be doing just that.

[S_M_E]

I believe they also have an office here in SoCal and one of the brothers lives here too...