SageTv WHS inatallation questions.

[davefred99]

I am a pretty experienced Sage user now for 3 + years and have Gone through several upgrades and rebuilds to date. I am now contemplating upgrading my Sage Server to run on WHS and have several questions that I just can't seem to find all the answers in one place so after several hours of searching and reading everything WHS related I decided to just ask for help.

Here are my questions.
1. how do you install the drivers/software for your various tuner cards if there are no .msi files for then. I am particularly interested in how to install my HDHR And Pvr150 drivers.
2. what is the best way to migrate my existing Sage TV setup to a new WHS server. Can I just copy Sage TV folders over to the new machine and then just run the Sage.msi install from the server and will it treat the new install like an upgrade and do its thing.
3. I have read much about 64k formatting of at least the recording drive or pooled storage drives on WHS. I am inclined to just leave the recording drive out of the pool and let WHS do its own thing on the others. Other than recordings, especially HD recordings that need to be stored in 64k clusters is there any reason that DVD rips and Music files need to be on 64k drives. I currently use 64k storage drives on my XP Home system mostly just becaues it was recommended but i never really remember there being any real issues before I converted them over.
4. Any other tips or tricks that I might be forgetting would be appreciated.

I guess my main concern is that from what I have read WHS generally expects a that all Addins or programs are to be installed via the Install folder via .msi files. Yet it seems that in many cases the only way to install some stuff is via the standard windows .exe install method which is not supported but apparently necessary in many cases.

Thanks, Dave

[Slipshod]

Originally Posted by davefred99

I am a pretty experienced Sage user now for 3 + years and have Gone through several upgrades and rebuilds to date. I am now contemplating upgrading my Sage Server to run on WHS and have several questions that I just can't seem to find all the answers in one place so after several hours of searching and reading everything WHS related I decided to just ask for help.

Here are my questions.
1. how do you install the drivers/software for your various tuner cards if there are no .msi files for then. I am particularly interested in how to install my HDHR And Pvr150 drivers.
2. what is the best way to migrate my existing Sage TV setup to a new WHS server. Can I just copy Sage TV folders over to the new machine and then just run the Sage.msi install from the server and will it treat the new install like an upgrade and do its thing.
3. I have read much about 64k formatting of at least the recording drive or pooled storage drives on WHS. I am inclined to just leave the recording drive out of the pool and let WHS do its own thing on the others. Other than recordings, especially HD recordings that need to be stored in 64k clusters is there any reason that DVD rips and Music files need to be on 64k drives. I currently use 64k storage drives on my XP Home system mostly just becaues it was recommended but i never really remember there being any real issues before I converted them over.
4. Any other tips or tricks that I might be forgetting would be appreciated.

I guess my main concern is that from what I have read WHS generally expects a that all Addins or programs are to be installed via the Install folder via .msi files. Yet it seems that in many cases the only way to install some stuff is via the standard windows .exe install method which is not supported but apparently necessary in many cases.

Thanks, Dave

For #1, I use the windows remote desktop client to login to WHS just like it was regular Windows. I also built my own server, and have a keyboard and monitor hooked up to it for when I need to tweak things outside of the console. For the HDHR you also should set it up to login automatically so it starts the HDHR driver app.

Not sure on #2, but that sounds reasonable from what I've seen.

For #3 I successfully played back a blu-ray rip of Spiderman 3 from the pool without having it at 64K blocksize. For whatever that's worth.. I believe the 64k blocks are more important when you're doing multiple simultaneous read/write operations on the drive, to keep rotation and head latency from interrupting the streams.

#4 Carefully plan how you're going to deal with all of the record directories. Remember that the wiz.bin stores absolute paths attached to each recording. I think there's some tutorials around the forums, but when I looked it was kind of an ugly looking process.


Cheers,
Slipshod

[BrianDC]

Only Tip for WHS server is that by default, WHS sets your Sage storage path to \\localhost\Videos or a sub-directory off of the Videos directory. you need to make sure that it is set to \\<servername>\<sharename> if you plan to use comskip with a sageTV client. If you don't you can change the storage location later, but it's a bit of a pain in the neck.

Using Remote Desktop is your friend for getting Sage tweaked on WHS.

Best of luck.

[SWKerr]

#1 As Slipshod said remote desktop and install like normal. I think I saw a post where someone had issues with the 150 but have no experience my self. (Although I have two in a box right now)

#2 I setup Sage like it was a new install with all the tuners and guides and libraries like I wanted them. Copied all the content to the new shares and made sure I could play everything etc. (All recording are in one big folder now, WHS automatically spans across drives but Sage has no idea. ) Added any plugins. Once it seemed to be complete I just copied the wiz.bin file and replaced the one from the new setup. Everything but a few really old shows were found complete with descriptions etc. and all was good.

#3 Since I installed from scratch I formatted all the hard drives with 64K blocksize as per the guide on this forum. My recording drive is in the pool and I do not have issues recording three at a time and watching shows at the same time. You have to erase the drive to put it in the pool so the extra step for 64K is just insurance. Not sure if it really makes a difference. My old system did not have them formatted that way and I still did not have any problems.

[TallMomof2]

#1 You may need to enable XP mode to install some of the drivers. If you're using the IR Blaster to control a STB you may also need to install the WinTV Sceduler in order to get some of the .dll files needed to run that.

#2 I copied all my files over and dropped in my wiz.bin after Sage was installed. All but a handful of recordings showed up in recordings. The few that didn't I moved over using Nielm's Web Server. Also, be sure to check that your EPG is working properly. Mine wasn't and I had to reinstall the video sources.

#3 Even though I had over 2TB of recordings I chose to use the pool and formatted all my drives, including d:\ to 64K. It's not unusual for my server to be recording 4 or 5 streams and serving 2 at the same time. I haven't had any issues.

[wayner]

The issue with the PVR-150 and WHS is if you have 4 Gigs of memory. I built a new box with 4 Gigs on WHS and my PVR-150 drivers didn't work. Once I pulled out a 2 Gig stick to go back to 2 Gigs everything works fine. Apparently there is some bug in the Hauppauge drivers when you have 4 Gigs or more of memory. For some reason WHS seems to be able to see the full 4 Gigs - I don't know why since I thought it was a 32bit OS limitation and I thought that WHS is a 32bit OS.

I also keep a keyboard, mouse and monitor hooked up to my WHS. I have it in my "server room" in the basment with many other half torn apart PCs. I also RDP into the WHS box from my other PCs.

[gplasky]

You install any application on WHS just like you would on any other server or PC. It is only the add-ins that usually have a msi installer and that goes in the add-in folder.

I moved all my drives in the pool so that I could very easily add drives to the pool or remove a smaller drive and replace it with a larger one. It also allows me easy duplication on whatever I decide to duplicate.

I suggest you read up on WHS so that you understand exactly what it brings to the table. That way you can best understand how it applies to running SageTV on it. You need a basic understanding of networks, shares, UNC, etc.

Gerry

[wayner]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You install any application on WHS just like you would on any other server or PC. It is only the add-ins that usually have a msi installer and that goes in the add-in folder.

The hard-core WHS afficianados, including some from MS, would say that you should never need anything other than the WHS console and that running anything that you can't install in the console is unsupported.

I couldn't even comprehend running a server in this manner, and there is no way that you could run Sage like this given the need to change stuff like sage.properties and using Sage plugins.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by davefred99

2. what is the best way to migrate my existing Sage TV setup to a new WHS server. Can I just copy Sage TV folders over to the new machine and then just run the Sage.msi install from the server and will it treat the new install like an upgrade and do its thing.

That's how I do it and it's always worked fine.

3. I have read much about 64k formatting of at least the recording drive or pooled storage drives on WHS. I am inclined to just leave the recording drive out of the pool and let WHS do its own thing on the others. Other than recordings, especially HD recordings that need to be stored in 64k clusters is there any reason that DVD rips and Music files need to be on 64k drives. I currently use 64k storage drives on my XP Home system mostly just becaues it was recommended but i never really remember there being any real issues before I converted them over.

There are reasons for 64K clusters. By using larger clusters you have less fragmentation and the drive doesn't have to work as hard and lasts longer too. Not just videos but music to. It wouldn't be as important for photos and other small files but some wasted space is the price you pay for better performance and longevity. Luckily, free space is cheap.

4. Any other tips or tricks that I might be forgetting would be appreciated.

As Gerry said, I'd suggest learning more about WHS. Don't expect to do things exactly like you did on XP or any other OS.

[rlvogel322]

Originally Posted by wayner

The issue with the PVR-150 and WHS is if you have 4 Gigs of memory. I built a new box with 4 Gigs on WHS and my PVR-150 drivers didn't work. Once I pulled out a 2 Gig stick to go back to 2 Gigs everything works fine. Apparently there is some bug in the Hauppauge drivers when you have 4 Gigs or more of memory. For some reason WHS seems to be able to see the full 4 Gigs - I don't know why since I thought it was a 32bit OS limitation and I thought that WHS is a 32bit OS.

I also keep a keyboard, mouse and monitor hooked up to my WHS. I have it in my "server room" in the basment with many other half torn apart PCs. I also RDP into the WHS box from my other PCs.

I have 4G of RAM and a 150 working without any issues on my WHS.

[davefred99]

I think I am getting a handle on what its gona take to make WHS work but I just realized one potential stumbling block. On my current Sage Server running Xp Home I was able to install the MCE Plaster drivers so I could use the MCE blaster for channel changing. I did this a long time ago and do not remember the exact method of accomplishing this feet. I sort a remember installing a update patch originally meant for XP pro but it worked on XP too that installed the basic MCE drivers. I then had to grab some DLL files off my laptop that had just happened to have XP MCE on it and put them on the Sage server. This allowed the MCE remote to work but I also installed Stephan M's LM remote software on the server so I could use the blasters on the MCE to change channels on my Fios Cable boxes. I also had to put the LM remote drivers into the sage tv directory to use them. Like I said I don't recall the complete instructions and even if I could I am not to sure that WHS would allow me to install them this way anyways. Long story short I may need to get a USBUIRt since I am pretty sure it is supported in WHS. I guess since one of my tuner cards is a PVR25O ann it comes with its own plaster I could set it up for one box to test it out too.

Lots of decisions and things to consider, Makes one wonder if its really all worth it in the end. Well I guess I am committed to give it a go no matter but its sure not making me feel warm and fuzzy right now.

[S_M_E]

If you're running WHS headless, like it's designed, you won't be using the remote on the server anyway. You'd be using a remote on a client, placeshifter or extender.

[davefred99]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

If you're running WHS headless, like it's designed, you won't be using the remote on the server anyway. You'd be using a remote on a client, placeshifter or extender.

I will be using it Headless but I use the MCE blaster to change channels on my Fios cable boxes that feed the internal PVR150 & PVR250 tuner/capture cards. Only the PVR 250 has a built-in blaster for this purpose. I know most use the usbuirt but in my case I am currently using The MCE blasters with LM remote software. I also have an HDHR for hd locals but and that will be ok.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by davefred99

I know most use the usbuirt but in my case I am currently using The MCE blasters with LM remote software.

You can try to install it on WHS but it'd probably be easier to go with another option. YMMV...

[Taddeusz]

I'm considering combining both my SageTV server which is currently running Windows XP and NAS running FreeNAS into a single box running WHS. I have the 90-day WHS trial waiting. I need to buy an extra hard drive so I can transition my files from my FreeNAS box. But I believe this is the way I'm heading instead of having the two different boxes.

[davefred99]

Well I took the plunge and started my quest to migrate over to WHS .
The actual install of Windows Home Serever went without much fuss. I had to install my lan & motherboard drivers but that was pretty much a non event. I then installed my Pvr tuner drivers and my original C: drive non pooled so I could drag some of the files off it such as my original Sage directories. Once I did all that I just ran the Sage WHS install and was close to up and running. Oh I also installed my HD Homerun software too.
Then I decided to get brave and copy all the files off the new D: drive that was pretty much empty do to it being a fresh install with no folder duplications or anything else on it. I the wen to the Computer management folder and quick reformatted the D: partition to 64k clusters. Then I just reinstalled all files and folders back over to it. I am not sure that this is the exact way that its all spelled out in SME's guide gut it worked for me.
So now its on to changing the recording directory to the SageRecording folder I created in the D:Video shared folder. All seems to be humming along until I try to install the MCE (ehome)Blaster for changing channels on my 2 Fios cable boxes using the MCE blaster. I did manage to get it to say its installed in control panel by using my copied IRBus.sys and irbus.inf files over but it dose not respond to any ir input. I also reinstalled the LMRemoteKeymap software because thats how I had it working on the old XP home Sage server. Try as I may I can not figure out how to get this to work and I am hoping someone will give me some guidance.
So for now the WHS Sage Sever is working but only with my HD Homerun so far. I also am having troubles installing the connector software too but I will deal with that when I get the rest up and working.
I am tired now and tomorrow is another day.
Dave.

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by davefred99

So now its on to changing the recording directory to the SageRecording folder I created in the D:Video shared folder.

You should use the UNC path, never use the D partition directly and always use the WHS console to create the shares in the pool.

[davefred99]

Originally Posted by S_M_E

You should use the UNC path, never use the D partition directly and always use the WHS console to create the shares in the pool.

I believe I did use the control console to create the share, but I used the windows explorer window to drag the files off of the D: partition temporarily to reformat it to 64k clusters. Why does it matter if if I may ask and what would it hurt doing it the other way. Not being a smart ass I really don't know much at all about WHS. It is definitely very different then XP yet similar too.
As fare as I can tell everything has worked out so fare. xing fingers!

[S_M_E]

Originally Posted by davefred99

I believe I did use the control console to create the share, but I used the windows explorer window to drag the files off of the D: partition temporarily to reformat it to 64k clusters. Why does it matter if if I may ask and what would it hurt doing it the other way. Not being a smart ass I really don't know much at all about WHS. It is definitely very different then XP yet similar too.
As fare as I can tell everything has worked out so fare. xing fingers!

Using the destructive "format method" to change the D partition to 64K is one method and some people have had success.

I'm referring to manually creating shares in the D partition or copying files to the pool. Always use \\server\share\folder to fill up the pool, never use D:\shares\* because it messes up the drive extender. Also you want to avoid installing SW to the D partition too.