Central FanArt Folder Improvments

[stuckless]

based on some discussions with ben, get background will return the image that matches the title name (ie, the "primary" image) and if that doesn't work, then just the first one in the list.

[jaminben]

I've had some other ideas

I would assume not everyone will want the complexity of the new fan art folder system and although its hopefully going to be mostly automatic or changeable with the remote they would prefer the older system of three folders with all their fan art dumped inside (Movies, Music, TV). So perhaps the api could allow for an option to use "Advanced Fan Art Folders" or "Simple Fan Art Folders". This would be done in the main SageMC settings and handled exactly like the first beta .jar file Sean gave me (what we use now). It would still also rely on the user specifying a central fan art folder.

With this is mind and hopefully getting the ability to download all backgrounds etc which are available for a show, would it be possible to have a switch that says /GetAllImages or /GetSingleImages or even have it default to only one image if /GetAllImages isn't specified.

Just a thought and not an implementation I would use.

[MeInMaui]

Ben,

I think trying to support multiple fanart implementations and the subsequent need to simplify is what got us started on this effort. I think we need to just standardize on one implementation and require everyone to adhere to it.

On a separate note, I've been thinking more about dealing with TV/Movie vs. Recording/Video Library and I think in addition to the logic I advocated earlier, we may also need to implement a check on the media file so that if IsRecording && Category == Movie then look in the Movie folder first (as has been suggested previously). This will handle the case where a recorded movie and TV show have the same Title. The only case left to handle is where a Movie and TV show with the same title are both in the Video Library.

Aloha,
Mike

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by jaminben

I would assume not everyone will want the complexity of the new fan art folder system and although its hopefully going to be mostly automatic or changeable with the remote they would prefer the older system of three folders with all their fan art dumped inside (Movies, Music, TV).

I wouldn't worry to much about that. I can hammer out an automatic tool for converting from the old fan art folder format to the new one in like 10 minutes. As long as we're making this stuff up as we go along, lets not make up legacy stuff to support too

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

The only case left to handle is where a Movie and TV show with the same title are both in the Video Library

We can handle this during the scrapping process by adding some metadata which declares if its a TV or Movie file.

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

We can handle this during the scrapping process by adding some metadata which declares if its a TV or Movie file.

So is this scraping process going to happen on recorded tv files as well? And not only imported media.

edit:

Also are we still aiming to get Season Banners which are really Season Posters but TVDB calls them banners. And Season Banners Wide? I'd like to be able to take full advantage of all available data and images I know some are rubish but if the new user selection works then that shouldn't be an issue.

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by jaminben

So is this scraping process going to happen on recorded tv files as well? And not only imported media.

Mike was saying that we don't have this problem with things in Sage Recordings, but it could be an issue with imported videos. Then I said that if the imported videos are scraped, then we could get around it there too.

Also, we might have to start scraping Sage Recordings, but that would just be to solve the problem where we don't have usable season/episode data on them, at least not here in the States.

Also are we still aiming to get Season Banners which are really Season Posters but TVDB calls them banners. And Season Banners Wide? I'd like to be able to take full advantage of all available data and images I know some are rubish but if the new user selection works then that shouldn't be an issue.

I'll make sure that everything from theTVDB gets put in the proper place.

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

Mike was saying that we don't have this problem with things in Sage Recordings, but it could be an issue with imported videos. Then I said that if the imported videos are scraped, then we could get around it there too.

Also, we might have to start scraping Sage Recordings, but that would just be to solve the problem where we don't have usable season/episode data on them, at least not here in the States.

Oki, Gotcha. We also have the same issue in the UK with usable season/episode data, well with XMLTV guide data anyway.

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

I'll make sure that everything from theTVDB gets put in the proper place.

Cool

[stuckless]

Since the Phoenix Fanart APIs are almost done (at lease this version), we should coordinate a release for all core tools/plugins/stvs at the same time.

Personally I think that SageMC should contain the phoenix-fanart.jar in it's release.

To cause as little confusion to the user community, we should aim that SageMC, Ben's Stuff, EvilPenguin's metadata scraper, and my metadata tools and my metadata plugin, all get published at the same time.

It's probably ok to release the SageMC and Ben's Screens before the tools are released, but it would probably cause mayhem if the tools were released before SageMC and Ben's Screens.

I'll probably be the holdup here, since I've spent my time building the phoenix apis, and not updating my metadata tools I hope to spend a few days working with babgvant to bring the metatools and plugin in line with new fan art folder structure.

I'm still in testing with Mike and Ben with the Fanart APIs but its going well, which is why I thought I'd send out this note.

One last note about the Phoenix apis.... There is no need to refer to the library as my library, ie, "stuckless's java library", or "stuckless's fanart api". If you are going to mention the library, you simply call it "The Phoenix APIs" or "The Phoenix Fanart APIs"

[MeInMaui]

I agree. Let's coordinate our releases. I can use the time until Sean is ready to squash a few more bugs in SageMC. I also have to track down Dirk so he can post the official SageMC release. Thanks!

Aloha,
Mike

[evilpenguin]

I'm up for a synchronized release, let me just double check so I know what i'm supposed to include

mediaScraper.exe

• Download all fanart into folder structure in this post. I've got everything working, including the actor images. I know the API doesn't support it yet, but that doesn't mean the .jpg's can't be there
• All of my TV .properties files will now include
  

  Title=%%inputFile_NAME%%
  Actor=%%actorsTemp%%
  Guest=%%guestStarsTemp%%
  Director=%%DirectorTemp%%
  Writer=%%writersTemp%%
  Description=%%episodeDescription%%
  Rating=%%showRating%%
  SeasonNumber=%%seasonNum%%
  EpisodeNumber=%%episodeNum%%
  SeriesTitle=%%showTitle%%
  EpisodeTitle=%%episodeTitle%%
  StarRating=integer 0-10
  OrignalAirDate=Just the original air date in string form
  MediaType=(TV|Movie|Music) So we can easily tell what a scrapped file is supposed to be

  @stuckless - You cool with those metadata names for TV? And feel free to make up the movie ones as your tool has better movie support anyway.

I can also crank out a quick .exe for converting old fanart central folder to new one if you think it would be useful.

Also, Sage sent me another Jar tonight that includes

GetMediaFileMetadata(MediaFile|Airing|Show, "SeasonNumber")

And should fix the one major bug I found with the last version. I'll give it a quick test to make sure its working and if you send me your emails @ mediaScraper@gmail.com I'll go ahead and forward that out to everyone tonight also. FYI they said they might be pushing out another beta this week that could include this.

[stuckless]

You cool with those metadata names for TV? And feel free to make up the movie ones as your tool has better movie support anyway

I'm ok with those... I'll modify my tools/plugin to use those (I currently use _Season, _Episode)

The only one that I think I'd like to add, is ProviderDataUrl, which is a URL from which the metadata can be updated. ie, for IMDB, it's the IMDB Url, for DVD Profiler, it's the DVD Profiler ID, etc.

I can also crank out a quick .exe for converting old fanart central folder to new one if you think it would be useful.

Yeah.. I'll probably have to write something quick in java for the windows/linux/mac users.

Just so you know... it's going to be end of week or weekend before I'm ready... There's one more feature that I'm putting in the Phoenix Fanart APIs for Ben (SetFanartPoster|Background|Banner) then I'm off to update the my tools/plugin.

Btw, is UserStars the same thing as UserRating?

One final note about Actor fanart... Should Actors be in thier own Folder, at the same level as Movies, TV, and Music? It would seem to me that if I add an API for Actors, it would be something like, GetFanartActor(ActorName), that would look in, CentralFolder/Actors/ActorName/*.jpg. Maybe we need to discuss Actor art a little more??

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by stuckless

The only one that I think I'd like to add, is ProviderDataUrl, which is a URL from which the metadata can be updated. ie, for IMDB, it's the IMDB Url, for DVD Profiler, it's the DVD Profiler ID, etc.

What about the IMDB/theTVDB/theMovieDB id numbers rather than full URL's?

Originally Posted by stuckless

Just so you know... it's going to be end of week or weekend before I'm ready... There's one more feature that I'm putting in the Phoenix Fanart APIs for Ben (SetFanartPoster|Background|Banner) then I'm off to update the my tools/plugin.

No worries, i'm in no hurry.

Originally Posted by stuckless

Btw, is UserStars the same thing as UserRating?

Yeah, its the same, lets just use UserRating, but also require it be an integer 0-10.

Originally Posted by stuckless

Maybe we need to discuss Actor art a little more??

theTVDB's actor pictures are promo photo's specific to that show rather than generic head shots. I could see a use for both. But lets just finish what we're working on now and talk about it another time.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

What about the IMDB/theTVDB/theMovieDB id numbers rather than full URL's?

We could store a ProviderDataId but we'd have to prefix it with a site id, ie, imdb:tt883384, or themoviedb:98934, etc, so that we can know what type of unique id it is. Also, we might want to consider using a semicolon separated list, ie, imdb:tt323434;themoviedb:34323, we'd also want to come up with a "known" list so that we are not using, imdb, ImDd, etc.

theTVDB's actor pictures are promo photo's specific to that show rather than generic head shots. I could see a use for both. But lets just finish what we're working on now and talk about it another time.

That make more sense.... My understanding of the intention of the Actors folder was flawed, which happens

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by stuckless

To cause as little confusion to the user community, we should aim that SageMC, Ben's Stuff, EvilPenguin's metadata scraper, and my metadata tools and my metadata plugin, all get published at the same time.

It's probably ok to release the SageMC and Ben's Screens before the tools are released, but it would probably cause mayhem if the tools were released before SageMC and Ben's Screens.

Sounds good to me, I'll wait until I see the new SageMC release then I'll add my two imports as soon as I can. Hopefully I've got the easiest imports to update so it shouldn't be a problem.

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

I can also crank out a quick .exe for converting old fanart central folder to new one if you think it would be useful.

That would be very handy.

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

Also, Sage sent me another Jar tonight that includes

GetMediaFileMetadata(MediaFile|Airing|Show, "SeasonNumber")

And should fix the one major bug I found with the last version. I'll give it a quick test to make sure its working and if you send me your emails @ mediaScraper@gmail.com I'll go ahead and forward that out to everyone tonight also. FYI they said they might be pushing out another beta this week that could include this.

Heh, I forgot all about that with all whats been happening over the last few days.

Originally Posted by stuckless

Btw, is UserStars the same thing as UserRating?

Are user stars going to be in a future java api? I know its not being done right now but I can't remember what was said about this apart from its something I asked for

Originally Posted by stuckless

There's one more feature that I'm putting in the Phoenix Fanart APIs for Ben (SetFanartPoster|Background|Banner) then I'm off to update the my tools/plugin.

I'll be testing this out this afternoon Should be a nice addition to fanart images.

[evilpenguin]

Hey, I had a little change of heart regarding the new TV metdata re: title=,SeriesTitle=,EpisodeTitle=.

For simplicities sake I'd like to get rid of SeriesTitle= and just use title=. That we always use the same entry for fanart lookup before we have to fall back to the filename.

Title=Series Title
EpisodeTitle=Episode Title

And since getTitle() won't display both any more STV devs will have to know to look for an EpisodeTitle to display if they're working with TV. Either way they were going to have to display an additional thing, but this way the title is a constant.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

Hey, I had a little change of heart regarding the new TV metdata re: title=,SeriesTitle=,EpisodeTitle=.

For simplicities sake I'd like to get rid of SeriesTitle= and just use title=. That we always use the same entry for fanart lookup before we have to fall back to the filename.

Title=Series Title
EpisodeTitle=Episode Title

And since getTitle() won't display both any more STV devs will have to know to look for an EpisodeTitle to display if they're working with TV. Either way they were going to have to display an additional thing, but this way the title is a constant.

I'm not sure.... Currently the Title field in Sage is the "Display" title for the media file object, which is also what we are using as the fanart lookup. In my tools, the title is configurable, in that you can have the title rewritten so that "I Robot" becomes "Robot, I". The same it true for the Title when it's a TV ie. ie, my TV Titles usually becomes, "${SeriesTitle} - {EpisodeTitle}", since that's the "display" title.

Maybe our logic about Fanart is fundamentatlly flawed by basing it off the "Title" property (which is what GetMediaFileTitle()) returns. Maybe we need to base it off, TVTitle, MovieTitle, MusicTitle, etc. (I currenlty don't write any of those properties myself, but I do store the original "title" in my property files).

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I'm not sure.... Currently the Title field in Sage is the "Display" title for the media file object, which is also what we are using as the fanart lookup. In my tools, the title is configurable, in that you can have the title rewritten so that "I Robot" becomes "Robot, I". The same it true for the Title when it's a TV ie, my TV Titles usually becomes, "${SeriesTitle} - {EpisodeTitle}", since that's the "display" title.

Do we want to manually handle "I Robot" -> "Robot, I" or "The Simpsons" -> "Simpsons, The"? As long as we're building up an API, why not handle it dynamically with a GetProcessedTitle() that generates those types of strings on the fly. I feel like we should be preserving as much of the original data as possible and then post-processing it if necessary.

Originally Posted by stuckless

Maybe our logic about Fanart is fundamentally flawed by basing it off the "Title" property (which is what GetMediaFileTitle()) returns. Maybe we need to base it off, TVTitle, MovieTitle, MusicTitle, etc. (I currently don't write any of those properties myself, but I do store the original "title" in my property files).

Hmm...

I can see your point, we should leave "Title=" alone and just have it be a one shot display everything property (we'll need this for backwards compatibility anyway)...

Title=The Simpsons 2x01 - Some Name

Title=The Simpsons Movie (2008)

And then break each of those individual components down into their own properties to allow them to be displayed individually or used for sorting/filtering for future development.

Title=The Simpsons 2x01 - Some Name
SeriesTitle=The Simpsons
EpisodeTitle=Some Name
SeasonNumber=2
EpisodeNumber=1

Title=The Simpsons Movie (2008)
MovieTitle=The Simpsons Movie
ReleaseYear=2008

Or, possibly, we could combine SeriesTitle/MovieTitle into one property (MainTitle?) and have this be what's always used for fanart lookup.

Mike/Ben, feel free to jump in here and let us know what you think as this is more for the benefit of STV development than anything else.

[Ikarius]

Hmm. I'm a bit late to this party, but I've been dealing with some of the same issues with the stuff I'm working on. What I've currently done is to code up some simple java functions for tweaking titles. I wrote "GetTitleForSort()", and "GetTitleForDisplay()", which take a mediafile object, call the Sage GetTitle function, and then munge the results slightly;

For sorting, I lowercase the whole thing, and strip leading "the " or "a ", so "A Clockwork Orange" would come back as "clockwork orange". Same behaviour for titles beginning with "The ".

For display, I check to see if the title begins with "a " or "the ", and if it does, I yank it off the beginning, and add it back at the end after a comma, so "A Clockwork Orange" becomes "Clockwork Orange, A", and "The Seven Samurai" becomes "Seven Samurai, The".

The nice part of what I implemented is that sorting a bunch of mediafile objects is as simple as calling SortLexical and passing it my GetTitleForSort function.

If we're going to start twiddling with using alternate titles, I may need to adjust this further.

I've got a bunch of thoughts on how I'd like to see TV episode metadata work, but I need to carefully read the thread to see what's already there before commenting on that.

Cheers,
Ikarius

[jaminben]

Originally Posted by evilpenguin

Or, possibly, we could combine SeriesTitle/MovieTitle into one property (MainTitle?) and have this be what's always used for fanart lookup.

Hmmm, I don't know which way would be best as I keep changing my mind. I'll leave this one up to the more experienced posters

All I'll say is, which ever gives us the most data efficiently and is fully sortable is the one I'd like to see