HD200 "Source" Aspect Ratio

[TwistedMelon]

Some of you guys (those using resolution switching) need to look at your DAR (Display Aspect Ratio) settings.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by TwistedMelon

Some of you guys (those using resolution switching) need to look at your DAR (Display Aspect Ratio) settings.

In what way? As I said, my DAR settings are correctly set for a widescreen display. I haven't checked if that setting somehow changes when I change resolution. Is that what you meant?

[TwistedMelon]

Originally Posted by reggie14

In what way? As I said, my DAR settings are correctly set for a widescreen display. I haven't checked if that setting somehow changes when I change resolution. Is that what you meant?

DAR should generally be set to match your display, so you've got it set correctly, but you might want to double-check that it didn't somehow revert to a different setting.

That said, if you change your output resolution to a one which has a different native aspect ratio, the DAR should also change. SageTV does not have the ability to do this automatically. For instance, if you have your box connected to a 16:9 display and generally output a 16:9 resolution such as 1280x720 or 1920x1080, everything if groovy. If you change resolution to 720x480 to play some 4:3 content, then your DAR is now incorrect and weird scaling will result.

If you want to see this illustrated in a simple fashion, just go to the DAR setting when you've switched. The circle will not appear round, which means the scaling is no longer being applied proportionally.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by TwistedMelon

That said, if you change your output resolution to a one which has a different native aspect ratio, the DAR should also change. SageTV does not have the ability to do this automatically. For instance, if you have your box connected to a 16:9 display and generally output a 16:9 resolution such as 1280x720 or 1920x1080, everything if groovy. If you change resolution to 720x480 to play some 4:3 content, then your DAR is now incorrect and weird scaling will result.

I'm not really sure what Sage is doing behind the scenes when you change display AR settings and/or resolutions. In the past changing resolutions hasn't had any impact on scaling, as far as I've seen. Obviously the picture isn't as sharp when I'm in 480p as 1080i, but things are drawn on the screen the same way.

In any case, what I'm experiencing doesn't seem to be normal or expected behavior. First of all, when I had my HD100, this never happened when I changed resolutions. This never happened when I used the release firmware on the HD200. It only happens with the beta firmware.

Second, if it was expected behavior related to the resolution, then it would fix itself when I cycle through the resolutions and get back to my starting one, 1080p. For example, right now I have resolution switching off with an ouput resolution of 1080p. When I play back a video it's fine. If I cycle through the resolutions using the video-out button, it's immediately like the DAR setting was switched to a 4:3 TV, even through the settings will continue to say it is set at 16:9. Even when I make it back around to 1080p the extender still acts like the DAR setting is 4:3.

Sage hasn't responded to me on this issue. George said they would try to reproduce it, and he never responded after that, so I assume it's a known problem. Actually, I found one other thread where someone was talking about a very similar problem, and that thread indicated that even though the problem started with a firmware update, it is actually fixed with a server-side change. As far as I know, this problem is fixed in the 6.5.15 server software, but I've been avoiding using beta server software thus far. I'll be more inclined to try the server betas after the main TV season ends next week.

[TwistedMelon]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Even when I make it back around to 1080p the extender still acts like the DAR setting is 4:3.

SOunds like a definite bug to me. Perhaps Sage have been making changes to the way resolution switching works and they inadvertently broke something. Or haven't finished what they've started changing.

As far as I know, this problem is fixed in the 6.5.15 server software, but I've been avoiding using beta server software thus far. I'll be more inclined to try the server betas after the main TV season ends next week.

You should not be updating the firmware on the HD200 units unless you are also updating the server software. It sucks to be stuck trying beta software on your production machine, I agree. But the firmware releases and server software often contain complimentary changes which can cause unexpected or unfortunately undefined behavior if only one of them is updated.

[Texas-Hansen]

I guess one person's bug regarding 4:3 is another person's feature. I'm not a fan of the changes to how the HD200 handles the 4:3 aspect ratio under beta 6.5.15. I had been using Sage Media Center for WHS up to version 6.5.13 and decided to give 6.5.15 a try. I have my aspect ratio set at source. Before the upgrade to 6.5.15, the HD200 handled 4:3 ratio rips great. It automatically filled the entire screen with the film and handled all other ratios great. After upgrading to 6.5.15, the HD200 displays 4:3 content as the old TV 4:3 style. While that may technically be correct, I definately liked how it handled things before given I have the TV set to 16:9. I understand that this was changed in 6.5.15 because some people felt how it previously handled 4:3 was a bug but I'd call it a wanted feature...not a bug.

[reggie14]

Can't you just change your default aspect ratio mode to fill? It sounds like that's what you're looking for.

I hate seeing things stretched out.

[adamwh]

Originally Posted by Texas-Hansen

I guess one person's bug regarding 4:3 is another person's feature. I'm not a fan of the changes to how the HD200 handles the 4:3 aspect ratio under beta 6.5.15. I had been using Sage Media Center for WHS up to version 6.5.13 and decided to give 6.5.15 a try. I have my aspect ratio set at source. Before the upgrade to 6.5.15, the HD200 handled 4:3 ratio rips great. It automatically filled the entire screen with the film and handled all other ratios great. After upgrading to 6.5.15, the HD200 displays 4:3 content as the old TV 4:3 style. While that may technically be correct, I definately liked how it handled things before given I have the TV set to 16:9. I understand that this was changed in 6.5.15 because some people felt how it previously handled 4:3 was a bug but I'd call it a wanted feature...not a bug.

The "Fill" aspect ratio should give you the same behavior as the bugged "Source" I believe.

[Texas-Hansen]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Can't you just change your default aspect ratio mode to fill? It sounds like that's what you're looking for.

I hate seeing things stretched out.

Originally Posted by adamwh

The "Fill" aspect ratio should give you the same behavior as the bugged "Source" I believe.

I know but cycling through the AR is a minor PITA and the kids aren't likely to do that each time. So much easier with how it use to work prior to .15. Again, one user's bug is another user's feature.

[adamwh]

Originally Posted by Texas-Hansen

I know but cycling through the AR is a minor PITA and the kids aren't likely to do that each time. So much easier with how it use to work prior to .15. Again, one user's bug is another user's feature.

Have you set Fill to be the default instead of Source? Does that recreate the behavior you need? If that's not sticking, similar to how Source used to not stick, then perhaps you've discovered another bug.

[reggie14]

In case there's some confusion, what adamwh and I are talking about is that a Sage added a feature a while back that let's users control the aspect ratio mode that extenders will default to. So, normally your extender will go back to the "Source" aspect ratio mode whenever you start playing a video. But, in your extender's properties file (and maybe within the Sage UI, I'm not sure), you can tell your extender to always start videos in the "Fill" aspect ratio mode.

Edit:
Sage actually made it pretty easy to set your default aspect ratio mode. Opus explains how to do it in this post.

Also, people have come up with different custom aspect ratio modes that you might want to try. Using "Fill" really stretches out 4:3 material. Another option is to do a combination of cropping and stretching, so things don't get warped as much. This post has a few nice examples of custom AR modes. The mode named "Default" is one that cuts off a little bit of the top of bottom of the video, and stretches the rest to fit a 16:9 screen. What's nice about it is that that mode still works well with 16:9 material.

[Texas-Hansen]

It seems that the latest firmware for the HD200 (firmware 20090528 0) has made the Aspect Ratio situation worse. Now, when I have a movie that is 4:3, the HD200 won't let me change the AR to Fill at all. Selecting Fill has no effect; same goes for Fill Wide. It stays the same 4:3 ratio. I will submit a bug report.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Texas-Hansen

It seems that the latest firmware for the HD200 (firmware 20090528 0) has made the Aspect Ratio situation worse. Now, when I have a movie that is 4:3, the HD200 won't let me change the AR to Fill at all. Selecting Fill has no effect; same goes for Fill Wide. It stays the same 4:3 ratio. I will submit a bug report.

I haven't upgraded firmwares yet, since people seem to keep finding bugs as bad or worse than the ones I have right now. But, I'm familiar with similar changes they made to the HD100 firmware a year ago. On the HD100 they made it so you couldn't change the AR mode when you were in the DVD's menu, but you could once you got to the actual DVD video. So, I just wanted to make sure you're not able to change the AR in the video.

[Texas-Hansen]

No question. While playing the video, changing the AR to Fill or even Fill Wide (whatever that is) does not expand the 4:3 content to fill the entire screen; it stays at 4:3.

Originally Posted by reggie14

I haven't upgraded firmwares yet, since people seem to keep finding bugs as bad or worse than the ones I have right now. But, I'm familiar with similar changes they made to the HD100 firmware a year ago. On the HD100 they made it so you couldn't change the AR mode when you were in the DVD's menu, but you could once you got to the actual DVD video. So, I just wanted to make sure you're not able to change the AR in the video.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Texas-Hansen

No question. While playing the video, changing the AR to Fill or even Fill Wide (whatever that is) does not expand the 4:3 content to fill the entire screen; it stays at 4:3.

By the way, I updated to the server and firmware betas tonight, and I was able to reproduce this problem. Basically, any aspect ratio mode that tries to stretch out the 4:3 video doesn't work correctly. I'm not quite sure what's going on.

[mdnttoker]

Originally Posted by Texas-Hansen

It seems that the latest firmware for the HD200 (firmware 20090528 0) has made the Aspect Ratio situation worse. Now, when I have a movie that is 4:3, the HD200 won't let me change the AR to Fill at all. Selecting Fill has no effect; same goes for Fill Wide. It stays the same 4:3 ratio. I will submit a bug report.

I just updated to the latest firmware...and video looks fine, but the pictures screen saver is all out of whack...

[Texas-Hansen]

Originally Posted by Texas-Hansen

It seems that the latest firmware for the HD200 (firmware 20090528 0) has made the Aspect Ratio situation worse. Now, when I have a movie that is 4:3, the HD200 won't let me change the AR to Fill at all. Selecting Fill has no effect; same goes for Fill Wide. It stays the same 4:3 ratio. I will submit a bug report.

Sage support responded to my bug report that they've found the problem described and will issue a fix in the next beta release.

Sage was real quick to respond and gather information on the bug report. Very nice job Sage.