Updating my network -- Need help in saving money

[QueOnda]

Hello All,

I'm having issues with my wireless router (I have to reboot every 2 days or locks up). There are no firmware updates.

I have 2 airlink (cheapos) gigabit 4 port switches. Doesn't support Jumbo Frames

What I want:
Wireless gigabit router which supports Jumbo frames (Doesn't need to be gigabit but why not).
8 ports or more gigabit switch which supports Jumbo frames.

Wireless router needs to be able to be upgradable to open source firmware (my current one is not supported).

[Peter_h]

For gigabit routers you are pretty limited. Do you need n-draft or is G enough?

That will also narrow down your search.

[QueOnda]

Originally Posted by Peter_h

For gigabit routers you are pretty limited. Do you need n-draft or is G enough?

That will also narrow down your search.

G is plenty.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by QueOnda

What I want:
Wireless gigabit router which supports Jumbo frames (Doesn't need to be gigabit but why not).
8 ports or more gigabit switch which supports Jumbo frames.

Out of curiosity, why are you so concerned about jumbo frames on the router? Your network cards and IP stack should be able to figure out when it can go jumbo frames and when it can't (there are some exceptions to that though, which I've learned the hard way).

I don't think you'll find a 100mbit router that supports jumbo frames. I think that's a gigabit-only feature.

[GKusnick]

You'll have more choices if you drop the gigabit requirement on the router. It's not like the router itself needs that kind of speed (unless your Net connection is way faster than mine), and if you have a separate gigabit switch then all your gigabit traffic should flow through that. The only thing plugged into the LAN side of the router should be the uplink from the switch.

Similarly, if you drop the wireless requirement on the router and get a separate wireless access point, you can plug the WAP into your switch and completely isolate intra-LAN traffic from the router, so that only Internet traffic flows through the router. Among other advantages, this lets you reboot the router without losing local LAN connectivity. It also means you can upgrade your wireless network without replacing the router and having to redo your router config.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Similarly, if you drop the wireless requirement on the router and get a separate wireless access point, you can plug the WAP into your switch and completely isolate intra-LAN traffic from the router, so that only Internet traffic flows through the router. Among other advantages, this lets you reboot the router without losing local LAN connectivity. It also means you can upgrade your wireless network without replacing the router and having to redo your router config.

Along those lines any suggestions for a good 'n' AP?

[bastafidli]

I just got these three last week

D-Link DGL-4300 IEEE 802.3/3u, IEEE 802.11b/g Wireless Gaming Router
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833127158
as my perimeter firewall and shared wireless access point (visiting family, babysitters, gaming)
It is gigabit router with 108g wireless. Works very well, but if you have Intel 3945ABG you need to actually downgrade to firmware 1.6 to keep the wireless stable. It doesnt supports jumbo frames. They had it very nicely priced in Frys.

Cisco Small Business RVS4000 10/100/1000Mbps Gigabit Security Router with VPN 1 x RJ45 WAN Ports 4 x 10/100/1000Mbps LAN Ports
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833124091
For my internal firewall and network. Gigabit WAN port, VPN, supports jumbo frame. Found it misprices in Staples so it was steal.

D-Link DGS-2208 10/100/1000Mbps 8-Port Desktop Green Ethernet Switch 8 x RJ45 8K MAC Address Table 144KB per Device Packet Buffer Memory Buffer Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833127082
For office equipment. Support JumboFrames. They had it on sale in OfficeDepot and Frys with instant rebate or you can get it with mail in rebate in many other places.

All for little over 200.

[mayamaniac]

I think only the old Linksys WRT can use the open source firmware, probably find one on ebay. And then couple it with a gigabit switch and an access point and you're set.

Otherwise, I recommend the Dlink DIR-655. Has 4 1000M ports, and Wireless G and N draft incase you upgrade your wireless in the future. And very reasonably priced.

[Peter_h]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

I think only the old Linksys WRT can use the open source firmware, probably find one on ebay. And then couple it with a gigabit switch and an access point and you're set.

This is not the case. DD-WRT is supported on hundreds of different rounters now. If you bought a router in the last 2 years, it's probably supported. Here is a link to the supported hardware list.

DD-WRT Supported Hardware list.

Personally, I run this router flashed with DD-WRT.

Linksys WRT310n

It is Wireless G router (also N capable but not a selling point for me), is gigabit across the LAN Ports, and was the only router with those specs under 100 bucks a year ago. Wireless range isn't the greatest but that doesn't matter as I have AP's around the house. I flashed it the day I bought it and it has been great.

I personally have had nothing but problems with Dlink equipment.

[Peter_h]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Along those lines any suggestions for a good 'n' AP?

Why the need for "N"? It's still draft technology and frankly it's not all it's cracked up to be.. There is a reason it's not deployed in the commercial sector.

What is your budget for an AP? Indoor or Outdoor? What are you trying to cover?

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Peter_h

This is not the case. DD-WRT is supported on hundreds of different rounters now. If you bought a router in the last 2 years, it's probably supported. Here is a link to the supported hardware list.

One thing to keep in mind is that not all features of wireless routers are supported in DD-WRT. For instance, last I checked DD-WRT wouldn't work with the 5 GHz radios in dual-band 802.11n equipment. It would still work with the 2.4 GHz radios, but the 5Ghz band is one of the really nice features of 802.11n.

Why the need for "N"? It's still draft technology and frankly it's not all it's cracked up to be.. There is a reason it's not deployed in the commercial sector.

Why do you say that? First of all, draft N 2.0 is basically going to be the final 802.11n standard. Current draft N 2.0 equipment will be compatible with future equipment, requiring, at most, a firmware update. I'd be willing to bet most current draft N 2.0 equipment will just work with 802.11n-final equipment without any updates.

Second, why do you say it's not all it's cracked up to be? Certainly, it's not deployed widely, but wireless-n is for your own wifi network at home, and it's noticeably faster than wireless-g if you do a lot of file transfers (or if you want to try to stream HD mpeg2).

[Peter_h]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Why do you say that? First of all, draft N 2.0 is basically going to be the final 802.11n standard. Current draft N 2.0 equipment will be compatible with future equipment, requiring, at most, a firmware update. I'd be willing to bet most current draft N 2.0 equipment will just work with 802.11n-final equipment without any updates.

Second, why do you say it's not all it's cracked up to be? Certainly, it's not deployed widely, but wireless-n is for your own wifi network at home, and it's noticeably faster than wireless-g if you do a lot of file transfers (or if you want to try to stream HD mpeg2).[/QUOTE]

The problem i have with it is, it's way too expensive for what is not guaranteed to be compatible when the final standard is in place. My testing has seen N products with less range than G and less stable for more money.

Yes, the standard is supposed to be published sometime next year and based mostly on the 2.0 standard but things can and have changed along the way. They have been working on it for what 5 years now?

While a firmware update can update you to the latest standard, most of the router manufacturers are slow to send out updates if they even do. They would much rather put out a new product marketed as "Wireless N Standard" and then you are SOL looking to buy another router.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Peter_h

Why the need for "N"? It's still draft technology and frankly it's not all it's cracked up to be.. There is a reason it's not deployed in the commercial sector.

It's not a "need", just a want. My laptop's got 'N' capability and G is frustratingly slow quite often. Seems like I was getting ~10Mbps on G with WEP. Problem is I've got some devices that don't support WPA with AES, so I needed a new AP regardless.

What is your budget for an AP? Indoor or Outdoor? What are you trying to cover?

Well not enough for an Orinoco . I ended up grabbing a Dlink DIR-825, which has two radios so I can configure b/g on 2.4 with WEP for my old device (Roku Soundbridge) and 5.2 with WPA for my laptop. With my laptop where it's sitting right now (in the kitchen upstairs from the 825) I've got a 180Mbps link and am getting consitent ~90Mbps.

While a firmware update can update you to the latest standard, most of the router manufacturers are slow to send out updates if they even do. They would much rather put out a new product marketed as "Wireless N Standard" and then you are SOL looking to buy another router.

Besides, I look at it this way, I only use wireless for my laptop (which I do occasionally do LAN bandwidth intensive things on), if I get an N AP and it works, great, that's all I need. I don't care if a new version comes out in a year or two, my laptop and my AP work together, a new version of N won't change that fact. So I can get an N AP now that works with my laptop and provides greater throughput (by at least 2x) or I can suffer with what I've got for a year or two, and still need to replace both my AP and my built-in wireless card.

[simonen]

I picked up a Gigabit switch and hardwired everything through that.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833127082

And have a WRT54G wireless router that is between my external connection and the switch.

This setup cost just under $100. I guess the 802.11n would bring the price up a little more.

[QueOnda]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Out of curiosity, why are you so concerned about jumbo frames on the router? Your network cards and IP stack should be able to figure out when it can go jumbo frames and when it can't (there are some exceptions to that though, which I've learned the hard way).

I don't think you'll find a 100mbit router that supports jumbo frames. I think that's a gigabit-only feature.

That's true. I was thinking if the future, I had a computer connected to the router wired but not needed.

Originally Posted by GKusnick

You'll have more choices if you drop the gigabit requirement on the router. It's not like the router itself needs that kind of speed (unless your Net connection is way faster than mine), and if you have a separate gigabit switch then all your gigabit traffic should flow through that. The only thing plugged into the LAN side of the router should be the uplink from the switch.

Similarly, if you drop the wireless requirement on the router and get a separate wireless access point, you can plug the WAP into your switch and completely isolate intra-LAN traffic from the router, so that only Internet traffic flows through the router. Among other advantages, this lets you reboot the router without losing local LAN connectivity. It also means you can upgrade your wireless network without replacing the router and having to redo your router config.

Good point in the 1st paragraph. The 2nd paragraph is very interesting. I like that idea. But if I had a laptop and wanted to access my network, then I wouldn't be able if I isolate intra-Lan Traffic? I guess, I could lock down wireless network by mac address. Then I could still use my wireless router (I currently have (i guess). The issue I was having with my wireless router (i think) is causing lockups because (i think) I'm having too much traffic going through the router and getting Xmas attacks (so the log msgs say).

Originally Posted by bastafidli

D-Link DGS-2208 10/100/1000Mbps 8-Port Desktop Green Ethernet Switch 8 x RJ45 8K MAC Address Table 144KB per Device Packet Buffer Memory Buffer Memory
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833127082

Originally Posted by simonen

I picked up a Gigabit switch and hardwired everything through that.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833127082

In the reviews on newegg,

Other Thoughts: I wish someone else had mentioned its problem in a review before I bought it. I had checked their product sheet and read through reviews about this switch with no mention that it shunts allports to the slowest connected speed. There isnt any support on Dlinks website for this product nor knowledgebase.

I found out that it shunts the ports to the slowest speed by emailing them and getting a single line response of "It is limited to the slowest connection." with a "internet email confidentiality statement" indicating that the information in the email is intended only for my personal use and is private/confidential.

Is this true, that if you have a 10MB then all ports are 10MB?

[Taddeusz]

I have two of the 8-port D-Link switches before they went green. Granted, the product may have changed between but my switches don't act like that. I still get gigabit speeds even with 100Mb devices plugged in. I have an HD extender on each and I still get up to 100 megabytes/s between my Vista machine and my XP Pro server. Usually it's more in the range of 50-70MB/s.

[GTwannabe]

I've been running a D-Link DGL-4300 for years without a hitch. Very fast and never locks up/needs to be manually reset (like every other consumer-level wireless router I've used)

The DGL-4500 is the newer model with Wireless N:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...3&Tpk=DGL-4500

We just installed an HP ProCurve Wireless-N network at work. Our building is a really goofy layout (80's solar roof) and we had dead zones all over the place with G AP's. Signal strength is much better on the N network, even with old G clients.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by QueOnda

In the reviews on newegg, Is this true, that if you have a 10MB then all ports are 10MB?

I have the 5 port Green gigabit router and it certainly does not do this. While I have no 10MB devices on my network, I do have a couple GB and 100mb devices running on my 5 port hub and my gigabit devices transfer data to my file server at greater than 100mb speeds (I wouldn't call it gb speeds, but faster than 100mb).

[QueOnda]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Similarly, if you drop the wireless requirement on the router and get a separate wireless access point, you can plug the WAP into your switch and completely isolate intra-LAN traffic from the router, so that only Internet traffic flows through the router. Among other advantages, this lets you reboot the router without losing local LAN connectivity. It also means you can upgrade your wireless network without replacing the router and having to redo your router config.

To do this would I need a managed or smart Network management switch? The unmanaged won't work?

[QueOnda]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I have two of the 8-port D-Link switches before they went green. Granted, the product may have changed between but my switches don't act like that. I still get gigabit speeds even with 100Mb devices plugged in. I have an HD extender on each and I still get up to 100 megabytes/s between my Vista machine and my XP Pro server. Usually it's more in the range of 50-70MB/s.

Originally Posted by paulbeers

I have the 5 port Green gigabit router and it certainly does not do this. While I have no 10MB devices on my network, I do have a couple GB and 100mb devices running on my 5 port hub and my gigabit devices transfer data to my file server at greater than 100mb speeds (I wouldn't call it gb speeds, but faster than 100mb).

I read other reviews and stated that they didn't have that problem as both of you stated.