Updating my network -- Need help in saving money

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by QueOnda

To do this would I need a managed or smart Network management switch? The unmanaged won't work?

Unmanaged is fine. All I'm saying is that if there's a path from LAN node A to LAN node B that doesn't go through the router, then that path will not be disrupted if the router goes down. Plugging a separate WAP into your switch (instead of using a wireless router) creates such paths for your wireless clients.

Now if your router provides DHCP service to your LAN, then you won't be able to restart any LAN devices while the router is down, or they'll lose connectivity. But as long as those device remain up, then the router is out of the loop as far as purely local traffic is concerned. Only traffic to/from the Internet will go through it (which is as it should be).

[vikingisson]

I read other reviews and stated that they didn't have that problem as both of you stated.

Can't say for certain but I'd agree that this shouldn't happen with anything fairly recent. However... if you have any *cables* wired or pinned as CAT-3 or even a CAT-6 done improperly your gig switches might misbehave or default to the lowest speed. Best to at least wire everything the same way with CAT-5E or better. I have three houses wired together at 1G over the greenies and then various switches off of them at each house, and one firewall with two internet lines doing load balancing and redundancy. The file servers and backup server are at opposite ends and I get full speed over that even with a few 10mb VoIP devices plugged in.

Those little 5 port d-link green boxes have worked very well for me. You layout the connections in a logical manner and you'll get 1G where you need it with minimal collisions or noise that slows everything down. Agreed that the firewall is best with only one LAN port connected.

The old linux based WRT or other AP boxes are tons of fun and still work great. I use one of mine as a back yard switch; set to bridge or client mode and then any wired device connected works better than that device doing wireless by itself. You could link houses with them and get decent performance since you can tune the link for optimized performance if it isn't trying to serve regular wireless clients. Use a regular dedicated AP for that, the cheap d-link APs are good.

I prefer to build my own firewall out of a junker pc. pfSense (diskless perhaps) on an old low power box is great especially if you have multiple internet lines or want to control access and do fancy shaping and VoIP, VPN, etc.

[QueOnda]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

Unmanaged is fine. All I'm saying is that if there's a path from LAN node A to LAN node B that doesn't go through the router, then that path will not be disrupted if the router goes down. Plugging a separate WAP into your switch (instead of using a wireless router) creates such paths for your wireless clients.

Now if your router provides DHCP service to your LAN, then you won't be able to restart any LAN devices while the router is down, or they'll lose connectivity. But as long as those device remain up, then the router is out of the loop as far as purely local traffic is concerned. Only traffic to/from the Internet will go through it (which is as it should be).

Gotcha, if switch is already connected and computer/devices already have the ip address then it's fine and will work as long you don't restart the devices. Thanks for clarifying!!!

Originally Posted by vikingisson

Can't say for certain but I'd agree that this shouldn't happen with anything fairly recent. However... if you have any *cables* wired or pinned as CAT-3 or even a CAT-6 done improperly your gig switches might misbehave or default to the lowest speed. Best to at least wire everything the same way with CAT-5E or better.

You may be right, if the user was using low spec CAT cable.

Originally Posted by vikingisson

The old linux based WRT or other AP boxes are tons of fun and still work great. I use one of mine as a back yard switch; set to bridge or client mode and then any wired device connected works better than that device doing wireless by itself. You could link houses with them and get decent performance since you can tune the link for optimized performance if it isn't trying to serve regular wireless clients. Use a regular dedicated AP for that, the cheap d-link APs are good.

Hmm, I see. I've wanted to do this in the past but haven't found the time or urgent need. That may change soon.

Originally Posted by vikingisson

I prefer to build my own firewall out of a junker pc. pfSense (diskless perhaps) on an old low power box is great especially if you have multiple internet lines or want to control access and do fancy shaping and VoIP, VPN, etc.

You know I read somewhere, that he had a open wireless router and his neighbors was using it. He then decided to create a box where he would mess with the people. He had it where if you were looking at the internet page, all the pictures would be upside down or mirrored. and did other things but don't remember the article. (something like that).

I would like to do this but don't have a lot of free time (i may have most of the hardware though). The problem I have is the box (computer right?) may use way more energy, than me buying a box and using opensource firmware like dd-wrt.

[vikingisson]

The problem I have is the box (computer right?) may use way more energy, than me buying a box and using opensource firmware like dd-wrt.

True enough that a pc will burn more energy but if your needs are more than a typical internet connection then a home brew is best unless you spend $$ on a commercial router. But a well behaved little pc running a *nix based firewall (*nix can run much cooler than Windoze for this task) can be very efficient especially without a harddisk. I have to support 10 people that also require VPNs, internally hosted email and web, access control and remote access, a digital PBX that gives us free phone from anywhere, and more. I picked up a small form factor low power machine for cheap and removed the harddisk and added extra network cards.

But for typical needs those spare WRTs running 3rd party firmware make a great firewall. I use mine to create a small mesh network over a few acres and several houses.

You know I read somewhere, that he had a open wireless router and his neighbors was using it. He then decided to create a box where he would mess with the people. He had it where if you were looking at the internet page, all the pictures would be upside down or mirrored. and did other things but don't remember the article. (something like that).

And in the event of a total loss of internet (two lines so unlikely) I can use the WRTs to route my LAN via a neighbour's open AP. So yes, open APs are a major security risk. That's why I don't suggest people use them unless they learn at least the minimum to stay safe. Scary how easy it is for me to find an open AP when I need one. They are lucky that I play nicely. One time I was bored and felt sorry for one AP I found so I remotely updated the firmware, setup minimum security, and printed on his open printer instructions on how to setup encryption and to pay more attention to his virtual front door left wide open...

[QueOnda]

OBTW, I found the article: http://ex-parrot.com/~pete/upside-down-ternet.html

[QueOnda]

What's the difference between access point (AP) and wireless router? I think I know but want to make sure.

[vikingisson]

The router is an AP that has a WAN port for the internet. They don't call them 'firewalls' because they usually only provide basic NAT (Network Access Translation) but is all that most people need. You can use a router as an AP by simply not using the WAN port. I still prefer a dedicated firewall and a dedicated AP.

^funny about the wireless redirection. I don't bother playing games with strangers like that but it sounds like it could be fun if you wanted to. However, seeing proper logs from everything important, knowing what people are trying to do and preventing them from doing evil, yet being able to do what I want securely is enough work, just not always fun. You'd be amazed at what hits the public WAN port every minute of every day.

[Peter_h]

Originally Posted by QueOnda

What's the difference between access point (AP) and wireless router? I think I know but want to make sure.

A wireless router is essentially a router with a wireless access point combined. The router will handle the DHCP leases, routing table, firewall, port forwarding, etc.

An access point is just a bridge that extend the network. It will allow you to connect to it and then forward on the DHCP lease back to the router.

That's a very basic setup and how most people can configure it.

That being said, most AP's essentially are wireless routers. The more expensive ones can give out their own leases and handle most routing tasks.

[QueOnda]

I just bought a

• TRENDnet TEW-652BRP on sale for $25 New Egg TODAY ONLY!!!

TRENDnet TEW-652BRP IEEE 802.3/3u, IEEE 802.11b/g, IEEE802.11n Draft 2 Wireless N Home Router - Retail
Item #: N82E16833156242

and the D-Link DGS-2208 10/100/1000Mbps 8-Port Desktop Green Ethernet Switch 8 x RJ45 8K MAC Address Table 144KB per Device Packet Buffer Memory Buffer Memory - Retail

[QueOnda]

Installed the trendnet and am very happy. DD-WRT doesn't have it working 100%, so I went with the DLINK firmware. Gives me lot more options.

I also installed my Dlink 8-port. How does Jumbo Frames work? I have a ReadyNas and a Lan card which both are Jumbo Frames compatible. How do I enable on both and if I do, will another device which is NOT Jumbo Frames compatible not work or not work correctly.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by QueOnda

I also installed my Dlink 8-port. How does Jumbo Frames work? I have a ReadyNas and a Lan card which both are Jumbo Frames compatible. How do I enable on both and if I do, will another device which is NOT Jumbo Frames compatible not work or not work correctly.

I don't know how you enable jumbo frames on the ReadyNAS. On your computer, go to your device manager in the control panel, find your network card, right-click and go to properties. The jumbo frames/packet option is usually somewhere in the Advanced tab.

It shouldn't be a problem that not all your devices use jumbo frames. Your devices should be able to agree upon a frame size regardless of whether they support jumbo frames or not. Probably if a jumbo frame gets dropped, the receiver will send back a special error message, and the sender will know to drop back down to 1500 byte frames. But, weird things can happen if these error messages get blocked. For instance, I was using a wireless bridge, but the sender and recipient computers could both handle jumbo frames. Apparently, the wireless bridge was just dropping frames without sending an ICMP message. So, almost everything worked fine (including Sage, I think), except I couldn't do network file transfers.