more thoughts on PVR-350 sage saga

maximumpig · #1 03-26-2004, 08:32 AM

If the hardware-out issues with the PVR-350 really are due to a chipset problem, as many people on this forum think is the case (there was a thread or 2 on this), then why is it that the WinTV2000 application works with the hardware out without a problem?

In other words, a true hardware glitch should persist regardless of the application using the hardware.

The glitch does not appear with WinTV2000

Therefore, the issue with Sage and Hardware-Out is not a hardware glitch.

It must be a software or driver problem that is solvable.

Is my logic missing something?

Scriber · #2 03-26-2004, 09:18 AM

To add to your comment, when my 350 OSD green screens a simple reboot and its fixed which to me, by no means a hw specialist, smacks of a driver issue.

Also, the fact that its sooo many chipsets are involved (most via, sis, and intel) again supports the driver issue IMO.

Kinda reminds me of the issues I had with a old soundcard and VIA mobos. The card had pops, freezes, or would go completely silent. This was only present with a VIA based mobo according to various posts/sites I ran across. XP is released with an MS driver and the issues were gone...it was the drivers interaction with the chipset not the chipset itself.

OTOH, maximumpig keep in mind that the WinTV app does not use OSD so that could make a difference. GBPVR another app with 350 OSD support had the same issue on my i845 (video would freeze and reboot did not fix; I should try again on my i820).

BTW, I couldn't get my PL to work on my old 440bx mobo. Did you get it to work?

maximumpig · #3 03-26-2004, 10:04 AM

in my case, as well as others', i think, the pvr-350 hardware out fails even with ui on hardware out turned off, so I believe the functionality is basically the same as what WinTV2000 is doing.

i didn't even try the 440bx-i don't even have a hard drive that old dell yet--haven't booted it up since halloween

it's going to be a bit of a project I think to get that box up and running again but it does have an ATI radeon 7200 all-in-wonder with a tv-out so even if the pvr-350's hardware out is non functional I'll still be ok

well, ok, but still annoyed that the groovy hardware decoding feature that I paid extra for is not working.

what is "PL"?

ckron · #4 03-26-2004, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by maximumpig
in my case, as well as others', i think, the pvr-350 hardware out fails even with ui on hardware out turned off, so I believe the functionality is basically the same as what WinTV2000 is doing.
"?

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but almost all PVR-350 out problems have been strictly with UI turned on. I know for myself, the 350 output is perfect if I leave the UI turned off.

maximumpig · #5 03-26-2004, 11:17 AM

so wait, am i the only one with problems with just hardware out on? how embarrassing and disconcerting.

are you using hardware decode only or software decode as well?

hardware out only is the only thing i haven't experimented at length with

Worf · #6 03-26-2004, 11:17 AM

I have problems just turning on the 350 out on my EPIA M1000 system. It will work for awhile and then the machine will hard lock.

fidget · #7 03-26-2004, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Worf
I have problems just turning on the 350 out on my EPIA M1000 system. It will work for awhile and then the machine will hard lock.

Umm. That is odd because my EPIA-M 1000 runs just fine. Which version of the VIA drivers, and which OS, are you running?

TunaBoo · #8 03-26-2004, 12:13 PM

It could just be a bad individual 350. Or, could be a heat issue.

ckron · #9 03-26-2004, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maximumpig
so wait, am i the only one with problems with just hardware out on? how embarrassing and disconcerting.

are you using hardware decode only or software decode as well?

hardware out only is the only thing i haven't experimented at length with

I am using HW only. I do not watch TV on the PC. I sit at the PC to set up my recordings and to start watching a recording. Then I sit down in front of the TV with my remote and I can pause and skip commercials using the remote. I am not really using it to watch or pause live TV because the UI out on the 350 causes my video to freeze up.

Worf · #10 03-26-2004, 12:35 PM

I am running Windows XP Pro SP1, VIA 4in1 4.43 driver, the 320 audio driver, 3.0 lan driver, 2.47 USB 2.0 driver, 6.14.01.0006 Vga driver. I tried install the latency patch, but that didn't seem to make a difference. I am running the 1.8.22037 Hauppauge drivers. It will work for awhile but will always lockup at some point, usually when changing channels especially when changing between tuner and s-video. I wondered about heat, but if it reboot (power off and back) it will work again for awhile.

TunaBoo · #11 03-26-2004, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Worf
I am running Windows XP Pro SP1, VIA 4in1 4.43 driver, the 320 audio driver, 3.0 lan driver, 2.47 USB 2.0 driver, 6.14.01.0006 Vga driver. I tried install the latency patch, but that didn't seem to make a difference. I am running the 1.8.22037 Hauppauge drivers. It will work for awhile but will always lockup at some point, usually when changing channels especially when changing between tuner and s-video. I wondered about heat, but if it reboot (power off and back) it will work again for awhile.

Maybe cuz it cools down? Aim a case fan directly at the main chip on the 350, see what happens.

Worf · #12 03-26-2004, 01:11 PM

I'll give that a try this weekend and report back. Thanks!

maximumpig · #13 03-26-2004, 01:20 PM

me too (with the cool down thing)
i wonder if there's a heat sink/fan set that could fit on whatever's heating up the PVR-350
. . . .

cmalinowski · #14 03-26-2004, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maximumpig
so wait, am i the only one with problems with just hardware out on? how embarrassing and disconcerting.

are you using hardware decode only or software decode as well?

hardware out only is the only thing i haven't experimented at length with

I had this problem until .14. In all of the other betas, it would hard lock on anything going HW-out on 350...

With .14 it only happens when UI is turned on to HW-out.

Chris

TunaBoo · #15 03-26-2004, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maximumpig
me too (with the cool down thing)
i wonder if there's a heat sink/fan set that could fit on whatever's heating up the PVR-350
. . . .

It already should have a good enough HS. The problem is, 90+% of home computers don't have enough airflow through their case, or they have a lot of dust in there (dust covering stuff = it will run hotter). General case fans are very important for a stable system.

maximumpig · #16 03-26-2004, 03:04 PM

never too much cooling
that's what my grampappy used to say

Scriber · #17 03-26-2004, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maximumpig
in my case, as well as others', i think, the pvr-350 hardware out fails even with ui on hardware out turned off, so I believe the functionality is basically the same as what WinTV2000 is doing.

i didn't even try the 440bx-i don't even have a hard drive that old dell yet--haven't booted it up since halloween

what is "PL"?

No, as others alluded to, the problem for most is the UI not just HW only. I've not had problems with HW only since 1.4; all of the betas worked fine. Sounds like something else may be involved.

Like ckron I don't use for live tv so my workaround is to use by tv-out from my VC as the primary display and then switch the input to the 350 for playback and the VC to "administer" sage. Not too bad really for a beta product.

PL = powerleap. I thought you were using this too.

maximumpig · #18 03-26-2004, 04:38 PM

i will be using the powerleaped unit but i just didn't get the reference.

maximumpig · #19 03-26-2004, 04:41 PM

oh and in answer to your question i had the powerleap in the dell/440bx unit for a couple of years before i decommissioned the whole thing. I had to send back a couple of pl units at first because I think they were having cooling problems-it would only boot up intermittently--try replacing the thermal pad with arctic silver or something like that.

Narflex · #20 03-26-2004, 05:31 PM

Howdy,

To let you know the status on this. There's two things that seem to be causing the lockup problem, the first is some kind of driver/chipset instability. There's not much more information I have on this at the present time.

The other one shows up on my main client system with a PVR350 TV out very consistently. I'm running it as a client with a network encoder. Both using the PVR350. The lockups only occur when the network encoder is stopped, and its not every time. I made changes to the code a couple months ago so Sage would minimize when it needs to stop the encoder. I also just added another property for V2.0.15 called "never_stop_encoding" which is a property for each encoder in the system. If you set that to true for an encoder, then it will never stop recording with it. It also forces intelligent recording on for that tuner, so it will be adding stuff to your sage recordings as it goes on, and deleting it when it needs space (just like intelligent recording does). But it shouldn't crash which is of more importance.

It also has to stop the encoder when the recording quality setting changes, as an FYI.

On another note, I believe I'ved fixed the cause of what was causing the corruption in the UI for the PVR350 output on some occassions. This was NOT when it was locking up.

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