AVerTV USB HD DVR- Finally Competition for the HD-PVR

[Deacon Crusher]

yeah on sale at Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/AVerMedia-MTVU...3690721&sr=1-1

$155.

I might trade 5.1 for total stability. After loosing most of my QAM channels recently and with the cable card products still being a ways away I need 2 or 3 of these kind of products and I'd rather save some cash. Could limit the stereo one to doing news and channels that don't carry much if any 5.1 content I'd care about.

So, support of the new device may be waiting on the 7 beta so back to waiting impatiently for that and all it hopefully will bring.

[panteragstk]

Software encoders are not the way to go unless you have a very powerful computer encoding. If this thing had a hardware encoder it would be useful. Without it...not so much.

[kingwr]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Software encoders are not the way to go unless you have a very powerful computer encoding. If this thing had a hardware encoder it would be useful. Without it...not so much.

All the sites I read says it does have a hardware encoder. In fact, the chipset is supposed to be very similar to the HD-PVR. Where are you getting that it doesn't have a hardware encoder?

[Deacon Crusher]

Yep, the USB one has a hardware encoder. The PCIexpress internal model that came out a few months ago doesn't have the hardware encoder.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by Savage1701

If higher bitrates with H.264 were irrelevant, than why not just have all consumer camcorders stop at around 12-13.5 Mb/s and 1080i for detail or 720p for motion oriented home videos? If H.264 is twice as efficient, then we've got 24-27 Mb/s MPEG2 quality.

Once again, you aren't paying attention. Camcorders don't stop at 12-13.5mbps because they are recording at 1080P!!! I don't know of ANY television signal that is greater than 1080I. THAT IS WHY IT STOPS AT 1080I. Only Blu-ray outputs to 1080P. NO STB's currently output at greater than 1080i.

The point of this device is to record television. To use the analog hole to capture High Definition TELEVISION. Again, 13.5mbps at 1080i is just like recording 1080P at 27mbps because it uses HALF the resolution.

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

Again, 13.5mbps at 1080i is just like recording 1080P at 27mbps because it uses HALF the resolution.

I thought that 1080i/60 was 60 half frames per second and 1080p/30 was 30 full frames per second, making them equal in actual data content - bit quantity wise. Is there such a thing as 1080p/60?

[Rico66]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

I thought that 1080i/60 was 60 half frames per second and 1080p/30 was 30 full frames per second, making them equal in actual data content - bit quantity wise. Is there such a thing as 1080p/60?

The notation can be confusing. For 1080i you can either say 1080i60, which refers to 60 fields or 1080i/30, which refers to 30 frames. Both are the same. But 1080p is 60 frames (which is the double amount)

[HelenWeathers]

Thanks, I was curious because my Blu-ray streams show as 1080p/24 (actually 1080p/23.9??) - so I thought that was the best that was out there.

[Fuzzy]

There is little to NO 1080p60 material out there. So it's hardly relevant to the discussion. In most cases, if you see 1080p anything, it's referring to a 1080p/24 BD or HDDVD. the HD-PVR's H.264 bitrate is plenty high enough to capture ANY available source that it would make sense to capture from. (this is pretty much limited to Cable or Sat STB's). Yes, there ARE higher quality streams available, such as BD, but with solutions like AnyDVDHD out there, if you are trying to use an HD-PVR to 'rip' BD, you're definitely doing it wrong.

Most cable broadcasts are about 8-10Mbps MPEG2
Most sat broadcasts are about 5Mbps H.264

12Mbps H.264 is more than enough to accurately reproduce those streams, without introducing any further artifacting that isn't already in the original over-compressed stream.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by HelenWeathers

Thanks, I was curious because my Blu-ray streams show as 1080p/24 (actually 1080p/23.9??) - so I thought that was the best that was out there.

Right, I've only ever seen 1080p24 and 1080i60 BDs, I think it may support 1080p30, but I'm sure it doesn't support 1080p60.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

There is little to NO 1080p material out there.

Well lets be clear, there's lots of 1080p24 content out there, almost all BDs are like that. Though even there it's irrelevant to this discussion because AACS prohibits 1080p(anything) output over component, 1080i60 is the highest resolution allowed by AACS over component.

But yes, there's very, very little 1080p60 content out there. I don't think any current delivery system (Cable, Sat, Blu-ray) supports it. About the only place you can get 1080p60 "content" is from a PC or console Game.

12Mbps H.264 is more than enough to accurately reproduce those streams, without introducing any further artifacting that isn't already in the original over-compressed stream.

Right the HD PVR's bitrate limits aren't the limiting factor in real world usage.

And if they are limiting you, then I think any hardware encoder is not the right solution for you. If you have a problem with the HD PVR's capture rate, then I think you'd be better off looking at something like the Blackmagic Intensity and doing the encoding offline.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Most cable broadcasts are about 8-10Mbps MPEG2

I realize you said "most" but that depends on your cable provider. Cox Cable here in Oklahoma City has higher bitrates than that. Other than to place in their own commercials I don't believe they mangle the OTA signal at all. Depending on the station (some of our stations broadcast multiple streams which reduces the bandwidth of the main stream) bitrates of our local content vary between 12-18Mb. Not sure about all the other encrypted cable stations but since WGN HD also comes in the clear at a full 18Mb I can assume that many, if not most, of those other stations come in at or near that bitrate.

Keep in mind, due to a lack of error correction a single QAM frequency has approximately double the bandwidth of a single ATSC frequency. This is the reason Cox can cram two full ATSC streams: KFORDT (1080i/60), KFORDT2 (480i/60), KOCODT (720p/60), and KOCODT2 (480i/60) onto a single frequency without apparent modification.

I of course can't speak for other cable companies but Cox at least doesn't seem to feel like they need to over compress their content just to cram more in.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well lets be clear, there's lots of 1080p24 content out there, almost all BDs are like that. Though even there it's irrelevant to this discussion because AACS prohibits 1080p(anything) output over component, 1080i60 is the highest resolution allowed by AACS over component.

But yes, there's very, very little 1080p60 content out there. I don't think any current delivery system (Cable, Sat, Blu-ray) supports it. About the only place you can get 1080p60 "content" is from a PC or console Game.

Sorry, yeah, that was a typo, I meant to say there was little to no 1080p60 content out there.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Keep in mind, due to a lack of error correction a single QAM frequency has approximately double the bandwidth of a single ATSC frequency. This is the reason Cox can cram two full ATSC streams: KFORDT (1080i/60), KFORDT2 (480i/60), KOCODT (720p/60), and KOCODT2 (480i/60) onto a single frequency without apparent modification.

I of course can't speak for other cable companies but Cox at least doesn't seem to feel like they need to over compress their content just to cram more in.

True, a lot of cable companies TO keep their ATSC sourced material at full bandwidth. That said, even if it IS single channel ATSC (19.5Mbps MPEG2), 12Mbps H.264 is still plenty to compress that without adding any problems.

[Tiki]

So, let's get back on topic...

Has anyone decided to give this new Avermedia tuner a try? Will it work with Sage yet or does somebody need to write some special code to make it work?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Has anyone decided to give this new Avermedia tuner a try? Will it work with Sage yet or does somebody need to write some special code to make it work?

I'm reviewing it this week. It isn't supported by SageTV yet.....

[KVFIVE]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'm reviewing it this week. It isn't supported by SageTV yet.....

How did the review go ?

Any better than the HD PVR ?

More Stable ?

*************
On another note..... would it be possible to adapt one of these HD PVR's (Hauppauge or Avermedia) to enable the unit to be a standalone recorder... ?
No Computer Required I suppose is what I'm thinking.....
just plug in an external HDD and away you go..... Bliss

*************

Paul (UK)

[darcilicious]

Originally Posted by KVFIVE

On another note..... would it be possible to adapt one of these HD PVR's (Hauppauge or Avermedia) to enable the unit to be a standalone recorder... ?
No Computer Required I suppose is what I'm thinking..... just plug in an external HDD and away you go..... Bliss

Unfortunately, the HDPVR has no "brains" -- it wouldn't know what channel(s) to record or when to start/stop. That's why it comes with TME or you buy PVR software like SageTV.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by KVFIVE

How did the review go ?

Any better than the HD PVR ?

More Stable ?

Well, my HD-PVR has been very stable so it's difficult for me to compare that way. But the AverMedia has been stable in testing. The reason I haven't posted a review yet is there isn't a decent HTPC program that can use it as a tuner yet. So that makes it difficult to test in a true, HTPC environment with changing channels, setting up tuning, etc. I'll have much more to say when SageTV or MediaCenter gets official support for the device though.

[SWKerr]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'll have much more to say when SageTV or MediaCenter gets official support for the device though.

Have you got any feedback that anyone is actively working on supporting this device. I imagine Sage is bogged down in v7 testing and development right now and it may be awhile.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by SWKerr

Have you got any feedback that anyone is actively working on supporting this device. I imagine Sage is bogged down in v7 testing and development right now and it may be awhile.

Well it does work with a 3rd party add-on for MS Media Center - but I'm not inclined to try that one out due to time constraints.

It's my understanding, SageTV will eventually support it. No idea how long it might take for that to happen at this point.