Which Operating System Best for HTPC?

[Brent]

Sounds harmless enough right? The answer is much easier than it used to be - I'd say Windows 7 in most cases, but what do you guys think? Help me out with the pros/cons for an article I'm finishing up to go along with the HTPC Basics Series I'm running:

Windows 7 = my first choice because it's the latest from MS and will be the most installed OS in the U.S. It is pretty easy to use for the end user, has the latest codecs, most supported tuners etc. The most options if you leave Sage
Mac = Probably near the bottom for me. It usually means a more expensive computer, not as flexible, not as many options if you leave SageTV, not as many tuners supported
Windows Vista = If you already have it, not a terrible choice. Then again...
Windows XP = A viable choice for SageTV users as well as XBMC or even BeyondTV. But only use if you have a spare PC around with XP already on it
Linux = an excellent solution if you know Linux and not worried about other family members "maintaining" the system with reboots etc. SageTV, MythTV and others are all good options for Linux, but not for the casual computer folk.

I'm looking for opinions and suggestions here. From a SageTV, XBMC, MediaCenter, etc perspective. Thanks!

[tchapin]

Hi Brent,

No mention of WHS? I don't have any experience with it, but have noticed that it has a fairly sizeable following.

I would rank Vista at the bottom of the Windows list. Since 7 is out, there's no reason for Vista. It was junk. I would probably rank them this way:

7
XP
Mac
Vista
Linux

But of course, it all depends on what you own and what experience you have. Is one of the most important factors the DVR / media center alternatives for the platform?

Since XP will be supported by MS through something like 2014, I think it's still a viable platform for this purpose. Is there anything, especially if running SageTV as a service that puts XP at a disadvantage for the averge person?

Todd

[Fuzzy]

I think the most significant liitations XP has at this point are codecs. H.264 codecs DO cost some money, as to DVD decoders (for the good ones, anyways), so if you are starting from scratch, that cost needs to be included. Win7, on the other hand, includes them in base install, along with the improved rendering pipeline.

Pretyt much I agree with Brent.. If you are just starting out from scratch on an HTPC, win7 is definately the way to go. If, however, you've got an old PC that is already up and running with XP, and you've got old tuners in it, and you've already purchased the requisite codecs... then.. yeah... stick with XP I guess...

[david1234]

With my experience, I wouldn't even put Vista on the list!

I was never able to get sage to run with any sort of stability. Tuners would fail after too much uptime with errors about drivers being bad. Recordings would actually have the "skips" saved right into the files. The WAF was very low

Once I "downgraded" to XP, I've had almost no problems. Once in awhile something goes wonky, and I have to reboot, but that's rare. I just checked and my system is at 43 days of uptime. With Vista, I it never went a full week!

I'd like to move things to Linux, but I don't really have a need to upgrade, and it's stable. Maybe if there was a trial period for the linux version I'd give it a try.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by david1234

With my experience, I wouldn't even put Vista on the list!

I was never able to get sage to run with any sort of stability. Tuners would fail after too much uptime with errors about drivers being bad. Recordings would actually have the "skips" saved right into the files. The WAF was very low

Once I "downgraded" to XP, I've had almost no problems. Once in awhile something goes wonky, and I have to reboot, but that's rare. I just checked and my system is at 43 days of uptime. With Vista, I it never went a full week!

I'd like to move things to Linux, but I don't really have a need to upgrade, and it's stable. Maybe if there was a trial period for the linux version I'd give it a try.

My guess is your vista failures were more to do with drivers in their infancy during vista's tenure. I'd wager that vista would be perfectly stable NOW, since the drivers have been fleshed out more.

[Djc208]

I would agree that at least a footnote or side article on WHS isn't a bad idea. If you have one running it's a great way to add DVR functionality and at least IMO has been every bit as stable as my old XP setup. In fact my WHS is going on 7 months up-time without me even being in the same house!

[ThePaladinTech]

Originally Posted by tchapin

Hi Brent,

No mention of WHS?

I would probably rank them this way:

7
XP
Mac
Vista
Linux

Todd

Curious where you would put WHS in that list?

[davephan]

I also recommend dropping Vista from the list. I tried loading Vista Ultimate on a new i-7 950 with 3 gigs of 1333 meg DDR3. It ran about 1/3 the speed of XP Pro. I haven't tried Windows 7, but I have heard varying reports that is it either the same, a bit slower, or a bit faster than XP.

I would not bother with WHS either. Presently, if the system drive fails, it is painful and slow manual rebuild. No way to image the system for a quick recovery. You are risking extra downtime and a big hassle with WHS.

I don't know about the extra price of codecs using Windows XP. I didn't install any codecs that required an extra purchase. Maybe if I did, the system might work better, although the Windows XP system seems to function great now without extra codecs.

Linux is good if you have a lot of extra time to spend on the project. Windows has the best forum support. There don't seem to be many Mac users, so the support might be limited.

Dave

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by davephan

I also recommend dropping Vista from the list. I tried loading Vista Ultimate on a new i-7 950 with 3 gigs of 1333 meg DDR3. It ran about 1/3 the speed of XP Pro. I haven't tried Windows 7, but I have heard varying reports that is it either the same, a bit slower, or a bit faster than XP.

I would not bother with WHS either. Presently, if the system drive fails, it is painful and slow manual rebuild. No way to image the system for a quick recovery. You are risking extra downtime and a big hassle with WHS.

I don't know about the extra price of codecs using Windows XP. I didn't install any codecs that required an extra purchase. Maybe if I did, the system might work better, although the Windows XP system seems to function great now without extra codecs.

Linux is good if you have a lot of extra time to spend on the project. Windows has the best forum support. There don't seem to be many Mac users, so the support might be limited.

Dave

I would say something was wrong on your install. Vista ran flawlessly for me until upgrading to W7 last year during the beta. Windows 7 is great and I would never go back to xp or recommend xp to anyone starting out.

WHS is also great you are right about the backup feature buck luckily it looks like Vail fixes is that (about the only thing of value it adds imho)

[david1234]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

My guess is your vista failures were more to do with drivers in their infancy during vista's tenure. I'd wager that vista would be perfectly stable NOW, since the drivers have been fleshed out more.

I'm not so sure that it was the driver's fault... Vista had been out for quite awhile when I started running it, and driver updates never seemed to make anything work better. When SP1 came out, there was a very slight improvement in the skipping we saw on the extender, but nothing else fixed anything.

But, who knows what hardware combinations just won't work with an OS? As much as everyone hated WinME, I ran that for 5 years with no trouble at all. On my inlaws computer, nothing I did would make ME work right for long.

What we really need (especially for people just starting out) from companies like Sage are reference installations- just having a list of a basic hardware/software package that they know works would be an ideal starting point. I know the hardware would be instantly out of date, but maybe the list could be updated annually.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I would say something was wrong on your install. Vista ran flawlessly for me until upgrading to W7 last year during the beta. Windows 7 is great and I would never go back to xp or recommend xp to anyone starting out.

WHS is also great you are right about the backup feature buck luckily it looks like Vail fixes is that (about the only thing of value it adds imho)

I just did a A / B speed comparison with Vista Utimate alone verses XP Pro alone. No other additional software. Vista was very painfully slow to use the GUI on a fast computer.

It will be determined if people can consistently and recover with a Microsoft backup / recovery product. Judging from past Microsoft backup products, the backups are fine, but the recoveries often failed! Maybe Vail will be different, but the jury is still out.

Dave

[david1234]

Originally Posted by davephan

I also recommend dropping Vista from the list. I tried loading Vista Ultimate on a new i-7 950 with 3 gigs of 1333 meg DDR3. It ran about 1/3 the speed of XP Pro. I haven't tried Windows 7, but I have heard varying reports that is it either the same, a bit slower, or a bit faster than XP.

I haven't tried it as a server for Sage, but as a workstation, I've been amazed at what Win7 will do on any recent hardware. I'm running a workstation with a e2140 and 5GB and it's fast. This is the box I'd been running vista on, and it's a night and day difference.

7 seems to do a very good job of giving the foreground tasks priority. It just doesn't get "bogged" down the way XP did.

[Oats]

If you are running a Server I think XP would be best, or Linux if you know Linux. If you can get Server 2k3/2k8 free from work/school it is also a good option. WHS2 should be a good option as well since it will be able to backup the main drive.

For a client I like Win7 better than XP. I never tried Vista.

[paulbeers]

I am breaking this up into two parts: One-box solution vs headless

One-Box:
1. Windows 7 - The built-in codecs are awesome. Easiest to get fluid playback of videos
2. Windows XP - Tried and true. Works. Lots of hardware and drivers available
3. Mac - Playback is great, but limited hardware is compatible and unless you use a Mac Pro, you are stuck with external only devices
4. Linux* - While I have Linux boxes, I have never used Sage with them as it just seems too limiting and I didn't want to have to buy a license just to test it!


Headless:
1. Windows XP - Tried and true. Lighter than 7. Plenty of drivers for all your various cards.
2. Windows 7 - Uses more resouces than XP. I didn't have any problems running it as a Sage Server for the short time I tried it, but I have seen a lot of users who have
3. WHS* - Haven't tried it, but it seems like it would be a perfect fit for a headless server, but haven't tried so I can't full recommend.
4. Mac - Same as above, great boxes. However, limited capture devices and most are expensive
5. Linux* - Haven't tried, less limiting than Mac for hardware, but due to licensing, I just haven't tried and probably won't.

* Denotes OS's I haven't experimented with to form a true opinion, but where I would put them on the list based on user experiences.

[david1234]

Originally Posted by Oats

If you can get Server 2k3/2k8 free from work/school it is also a good option.

Are there good drivers for tuners available for 2k8? I have access to it through school, but haven't really looked into it, since not too many people here post about using it.

[Oats]

Originally Posted by david1234

Are there good drivers for tuners available for 2k8? I have access to it through school, but haven't really looked into it, since not too many people here post about using it.

Most don't have Server 2k3/2k8 drivers. I have used 2k3 before and XP drivers worked for tuners. I'm not sure if you could use Win7 drivers with 2k8 or not.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by david1234

Are there good drivers for tuners available for 2k8? I have access to it through school, but haven't really looked into it, since not too many people here post about using it.

Server operating systems like 2008 is not a good choice if you want disk imaging software, since the disk imaging server versions are very expensive, unless you can also buy that cheap at school.

Dave

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Oats

Most don't have Server 2k3/2k8 drives. I have used 2k3 before and XP drivers worked for tuners. I'm not sure if you could use Win7 drivers with 2k8 or not.

Isn't WHS a slimmed down version of Server 2K3 and WHS/Vail a slimmed down version of Server2K8? Therefore there shouldn't be any difference in driver compatibility between WHS and Win Server.

[ytulpan]

I use Win2008 32 bit. Very stable and fast. Runs Vista drivers. If you need the BDA subsystem (not there by default) it can be installed.(Google Windows 2008 as workstation)

R-Drive image for imaging. Costs $50 and supports servers.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by ytulpan

I use Win2008 32 bit. Very stable and fast. Runs Vista drivers. If you need the BDA subsystem (not there by default) it can be installed.(Google Windows 2008 as workstation)

R-Drive image for imaging. Costs $50 and supports servers.

That's a very cheap price for server imaging software! Server imaging software normally costs $500 or more. Have you tested recoveries? You can test recoveries onto a spare drive to make sure that it is reliable. I think PING, Partition Image is Not Ghost, which is free, may also image server operating systems. However, sometimes the recovery using PING fails.

I don't know if R-Drive is reliable enough for commercial use. We have about a couple hundred Symantec Backup Exec System Recovery server licenses at work. If it is reliable, switching might save a lot of money, or perhaps threatening to switch might reduce the Symantec licensing cost.

Dave