HD-PVR & PVR-USB2 - Finally Gave Up on USB2

[Savage1701]

I've had a finicky, reproducible setup problem where, if there is a PVR-USB2 on my Sage system, it will cause my HD-PVR to tile and distort.

I've done the usual things - isolated both pieces of hardware on high-quality splitters. STB locked at 1080i. Tried 3 different USB 2.0 inputs - the 2 sets built into my MB and an x1 NEC-based card. I don't have this issue with analog tuners built into my other Hauppauge cards, so I am sticking with those for the few analog cable signals I might record. Problem reproduces on Arcsoft TME as well, so I don't think it's Sage. Problem does not reproduce if I take the STB and hook it up to my TV and watch it there. CATV guys have checked my signal levels and they are well within specs. Problem does not reproduce on my cable's STB DVR upstairs either.

Just something to consider if you are dealing with tiling issues on your HD-PVR. I think a sort of "blowback" can occur whereby interference from the PVR-USB2 is sent back through the cable lines and ends up messing with the HD-PVR. It would not surprise me if other tuners can mess with an HD-PVR as well.

BTW, check the forum for the person who correctly calculated the 14+ Mb/s digitizing rate for the HD-PVR. You get a 6.9GB per hour setting that makes many HD cable appear to have far better depth, motion, and color clarity, assuming your cable co is not short-stroking you too much on HD signal quality, even though they all swear up and down they don't to begin with. It won't help with everything, but some shows are noticeably improved and approaching OTA ATSC clarity, depth, and color saturation.

[darcilicious]

Originally Posted by Savage1701

BTW, check the forum for the person who correctly calculated the 14+ Mb/s digitizing rate for the HD-PVR. You get a 6.9GB per hour setting that makes many HD cable appear to have far better depth, motion, and color clarity, assuming your cable co is not short-stroking you too much on HD signal quality, even though they all swear up and down they don't to begin with. It won't help with everything, but some shows are noticeably improved and approaching OTA ATSC clarity, depth, and color saturation.

Oh, is this the one?

mmc/python2_encoding/H.264\ MyBest\ VBR=videobitrate\=13500000|vbr\=1|outputstreamtype\=1

from http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...8&postcount=15 (and buried in a thread about DirecTV I might add )

I'm going to give this a try pronto!

[darcilicious]

As a follow-up, when selecting a new recording quality setting, it states 6.6GB/hour, up from the 5.9GB/hour... does that sound right?

[Spectrum]

Yep 6.6GB is what mine shows but it is using cbr not vbr.
I have

mmc/python2_encoding/HDPVRMax=videobitrate\=13500000|vbr\=0|outputstreamtype\=1

in my sage.properties.

I dug up the post I where Andy posted the info here.

Interestingly enough, I just checked file sizes for a few 1 hour recordings and they are all 5.9x GB in size. Makes me wonder if I have something wrong with my config...

I should have asked google before I hit submit
13.5 Mbps = 5.9 GB/hr and 6.6 GB/hr = 15 Mbps
Makes me wonder how Sage is calculating 6.6GB/hr from 13.5 Mbps

[darcilicious]

Originally Posted by Spectrum

Yep 6.6GB is what mine shows but it is using cbr not vbr. I have

mmc/python2_encoding/HDPVRMax=videobitrate\=13500000|vbr\=0|outputstreamtype\=1

in my sage.properties.

Right, you've set vbr to OFF with vbr\=0. Is there a noticeable advantage of one over the other?

Interestingly enough, I just checked file sizes for a few 1 hour recordings and they are all 5.9x GB in size. Makes me wonder if I have something wrong with my config...

Yeah, my first recording with vbr / higher bits/s came out smaller than my previous recordings with the default settings. I'm now recording the same program with the original "best" setting and will have a good comparison to view tomorrow. My first impression is that panning/zooming is smoother...

I should have asked google before I hit submit
13.5 Mbps = 5.9 GB/hr and 6.6 GB/hr = 15 Mbps
Makes me wonder how Sage is calculating 6.6GB/hr from 13.5 Mbps

I think one of the posts in the Andy thread you referenced goes through the math...

[Spectrum]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

Right, you've set vbr to OFF with vbr\=0. Is there a noticeable advantage of one over the other?

I haven't ever enabled vbr to test. I haven't had a space issue (yet) so filesize has never been a problem.

Originally Posted by darcilicious

I think one of the posts in the Andy thread you referenced goes through the math...

Yup, I should have read closer and not just skimmed. Andy states here

I don't remember the details of the calculations, but there is more to it than the video bit rate, since audio & some other data needs to be included

That does make since, audio is not free

[cat6man]

just thought i'd mention that though i moved from pvr-usb2 to hd-pvr and hdhr many years ago, you might want to consider hanging on to your pvr-usb2.

i found it invaluable to digitizing old vhs and 8mm camcorder tapes.......the h/w coding to mpg video is really sweet for capturing old analog camcorder tapes.

just another reason to keep old electronics around (forever)

[hemicuda]

I agree completely. I've already had occasions to do just that. The only thing that ever really bugged me about the USB2 was that after an hour or so recording, the "live" video on my screen was several minutes behind the actual broadcast.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by cat6man

just thought i'd mention that though i moved from pvr-usb2 to hd-pvr and hdhr many years ago, you might want to consider hanging on to your pvr-usb2.

i found it invaluable to digitizing old vhs and 8mm camcorder tapes.......the h/w coding to mpg video is really sweet for capturing old analog camcorder tapes.

just another reason to keep old electronics around (forever)

Why couldn't you use the HD-PVR for this? It has an RCA Composite input too.

[valnar]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Why couldn't you use the HD-PVR for this? It has an RCA Composite input too.

The PVR-USB2 records in MPEG2, which is a much more editable format.

[jarredduq]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Why couldn't you use the HD-PVR for this? It has an RCA Composite input too.

You could, but it saves video in H.264 format. Most of the time when you are capturing from older sources, you are wanting to capture in MPEG2 that the PVRUSB2 natively supports. MPEG2 is the native format for DVD.

It saves an additional decode/re-encode you would have to do if you had to covert the H.264 to MPEG2, which would cause some degradation of the video.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by jarredduq

You could, but it saves video in H.264 format. Most of the time when you are capturing from older sources, you are wanting to capture in MPEG2 that the PVRUSB2 natively supports. MPEG2 is the native format for DVD.

It saves an additional decode/re-encode you would have to do if you had to covert the H.264 to MPEG2, which would cause some degradation of the video.

Yeah, that makes sense. I hadn't really considered editing.

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by Tiki

Why couldn't you use the HD-PVR for this? It has an RCA Composite input too.

mainly because my 2 HD-PVR are part of my sage recording system in the basement, hooked up via spdif and component to stb, with small usb fans keeping them cool............they have been known to be tempermental so i don't want to mess with a working system.

the usb-pvr2 is much more portable and i can set up a laptop and camcorder almost anywhere

i have the upgrade for editing hd-pvr and mp4 files, so that is not my limitation, though i understand why it could be for others