Prime is Available for Preorder!

[cat6man]

i've used firewire STB for years with no problem (XPpro for OS) and a plugin for me isn't a showstopper (i don't think)

the key for me is streaming to an extender.........playback on a
PC is not in my setup but hd300s are.............the extender (sigma) chipsets have the DRM functionality already in them but who knows how to get it working

once these tuners are out there, i'm sure creative folks will have some new ideas.

[thomaszoo]

Originally Posted by reggie14

On a separate note, I'm curious about people's expectations for using the HDHR Prime in Sage. Are some of you ordering it because you think Sage will officially support it? Or do you think you'll have to use something like SageDCT to use it?

I hope that SageDCT will work or be adapted to work for it. Most of what I watch now is copy freely so the extenders should continue to work.

My backup plan is to use Windows Media Center to play back the copy protected programs. My HTPC is connected to my receiver / tv via hdmi so that part is ready to go. My preference though is to use the extenders (they just work).

Wayne

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by cat6man

i've used firewire STB for years with no problem (XPpro for OS) and a plugin for me isn't a showstopper (i don't think)

the key for me is streaming to an extender.........playback on a
PC is not in my setup but hd300s are.............the extender (sigma) chipsets have the DRM functionality already in them but who knows how to get it working

once these tuners are out there, i'm sure creative folks will have some new ideas.

It will work like it does now encrypted will not play through sage or extenders in anyway shape or form.unprotected shows will play on extenders fine.

Why people think/hope sage will add drm is beyond me I don't see them spending the money or time.

[jptheripper]

my perfect solution is colossus + prime. Colossus for encrypted through analog hole, prime for copy freely. My main question is what is a "premium" and therefore copy freely channel? is it only locals (no better than qam) or is it discoveryhd, just not hbo.

Comcast, if it matters, by force, not by choice.

[ranger]

Since nearly all my encrypted cable content is copy freely, I would want to use it to replace the Motorola STB, so I just can't see investing in the Prime until SageTV has native support for the device on clear QAM and copy freely content.

[stevech]

Right. Since TimeWarner (et al) mark copy-protected for most everything except local stations (dupe of OTA channels), the Silicon Dust Prime isn't attractive to me. Without benefit of its cableCARD due to Sage not being accredited to decrypt, then the Prime is simply a nice 3-tuner clear-QAM tuner.

Is the reason that Sage does not seek certification by CableLABS as did Microsoft for Media Center (to include support for SD's Prime) - simply a cost issue?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by stevech

Right. Since TimeWarner (et al) mark copy-protected for most everything except local stations (dupe of OTA channels), the Silicon Dust Prime isn't attractive to me. Without benefit of its cableCARD due to Sage not being accredited to decrypt, then the Prime is simply a nice 3-tuner clear-QAM tuner.

Is the reason that Sage does not seek certification by CableLABS as did Microsoft for Media Center (to include support for SD's Prime) - simply a cost issue?

It's more of a DRM issue. They don't want to impose a flawed system on us. Ask people that use WMC why they don't like drm. (For one thing, if you reinstall windows you recording archive become useless).

I don't see why sage would see the prime any differently that a 3 tuner HDHR? I could be wrong (and probably am), but I'd think support would be really easy to get (for copy freely of course).

[stevech]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

It's more of a DRM issue. They don't want to impose a flawed system on us. Ask people that use WMC why they don't like drm. (For one thing, if you reinstall windows you recording archive become useless).

I don't see why sage would see the prime any differently that a 3 tuner HDHR? I could be wrong (and probably am), but I'd think support would be really easy to get (for copy freely of course).

Yep. copy-freely is just the network stations - a dupe of off the air. Here, everything else is DRM protected. All we need is component out from the HDHR Prime box! But if they had that, CableLabs wouldn't accredit them, I'll bet, and they couldn't get a cableCARD? Ah, then what of TiVo which has a cable CARD.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stevech

Yep. copy-freely is just the network stations - a dupe of off the air. Here, everything else is DRM protected. All we need is component out from the HDHR Prime box! But if they had that, CableLabs wouldn't accredit them, I'll bet, and they couldn't get a cableCARD? Ah, then what of TiVo which has a cable CARD.

A component out of hdhomerun wouldn't even be pheasible as it isn't a display device simply a capturing device.....So no sure where you are going there. Tivo is a capturing and display device. Component video will work of our WMC for even encrypted stuff.

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

It will work like it does now encrypted will not play through sage or extenders in anyway shape or form.unprotected shows will play on extenders fine.

Why people think/hope sage will add drm is beyond me I don't see them spending the money or time.

i agree with you, sort of, but think you missed my point.......WMC will support this encryption, so at some point i have to believe that there will be extenders that utitilize the DRM capability in the sigma chipset...........so extenders will, at some point, be there (IMHO), whether sage or not.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by cat6man

i agree with you, sort of, but think you missed my point.......WMC will support this encryption, so at some point i have to believe that there will be extenders that utitilize the DRM capability in the sigma chipset...........so extenders will, at some point, be there (IMHO), whether sage or not.

There is extenders XBOX 360 everyone else who has tried to make a WMC extender the product has failed and been discontiuned. Samsung,linksys, and dlink all tried and it didn't work.

I don't see any other software doing this besides sagetv(and I don't see sagetv doing it either) because they would have to design a UI front end as well as pay for cable labs ceritfication process. Seeing as how the above mentioned vendors failed with a microsoft UI and backend don't see anyone else trying it.

[cat6man]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

There is extenders XBOX 360 everyone else who has tried to make a WMC extender the product has failed and been discontiuned. Samsung,linksys, and dlink all tried and it didn't work.

I don't see any other software doing this besides sagetv(and I don't see sagetv doing it either) because they would have to design a UI front end as well as pay for cable labs ceritfication process. Seeing as how the above mentioned vendors failed with a microsoft UI and backend don't see anyone else trying it.

ok...........time will tell i guess

[jptheripper]

Originally Posted by cat6man

ok...........time will tell i guess

I think you are missing Plucky's (and i agree) point. Time has already told. We have already been through the development, test, deploy, fail, remove from market cycle.

Products existed and failed, and were removed. No more products have been announced or are coming.

In otherwords, waiting for new (non-xbox) extenders is exactly equal to waiting for new HD-DVD players.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by jptheripper

I think you are missing Plucky's (and i agree) point. Time has already told. We have already been through the development, test, deploy, fail, remove from market cycle.

Products existed and failed, and were removed. No more products have been announced or are coming.

In otherwords, waiting for new (non-xbox) extenders is exactly equal to waiting for new HD-DVD players.

Yup spot on and if anyone was going to make it work it would have been Samsung. They didn't even continue it very long because sales where so poor. Granted allot of it falls back to no/back advertising of what the functions are but most consumers don't care they use their cable/sat box and are fine with it. And with most cable companies and sattelites companies having multi room dvr's now the appeal goes away pretty quickly to average consumers.

I

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

I am pretty sure it is cable card only like the cetons. It may support qam but highly doubt you will see ota.

The Ceton card can be used as a QAM/ATSC tuner, but two Duets would be cheaper

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by babgvant

The Ceton card can be used as a QAM/ATSC tuner, but two Duets would be cheaper

Yeah I want to update my duals to the duets just to get rid of a splitter (lazy I know), but also one of my tuners went out the other day in my hdhomerun.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by thomaszoo

I hope that SageDCT will work or be adapted to work for it.

I hope so too, should be relatively easy to add it assuming that it implements DRI the same way that Ceton does.

Originally Posted by panteragstk

It's more of a DRM issue. They don't want to impose a flawed system on us. Ask people that use WMC why they don't like drm. (For one thing, if you reinstall windows you recording archive become useless).

The issues w/ 7MC's handling of DRM'd CC recordings is more of an implementation problem. I suspect that Sage's decision has more to do with ROI than wanting to "protect" us.

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I don't see why sage would see the prime any differently that a 3 tuner HDHR? I could be wrong (and probably am), but I'd think support would be really easy to get (for copy freely of course).

Unless the Prime implements a 2nd way to pull content (which I'm not sure would be compliant with Cable Labs certification) DRI is the only way to talk to it.

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by ranger

Since nearly all my encrypted cable content is copy freely, I would want to use it to replace the Motorola STB, so I just can't see investing in the Prime until SageTV has native support for the device on clear QAM and copy freely content.

Is there a way to figure out how a cableco is flagging the recordings without shelling out $250 and leasing a CableCard to find out?

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Unless the Prime implements a 2nd way to pull content (which I'm not sure would be compliant with Cable Labs certification) DRI is the only way to talk to it.

IIRC, Cable Labs removed the requirement for "copy freely" flagged content needing any kind of protection attached to the recordings. So if it's copy freely, there is no reason the Prime shouldn't be able to provide it to a requesting device as though it were a clearQAM recording. Which is the impression they're giving as to how it will work.

[KeithAbbott]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

Is there a way to figure out how a cableco is flagging the recordings without shelling out $250 and leasing a CableCard to find out?

Most cable boxes have a diagnostics menu where you can get to the CCI indicator, along with various other information. For my Motorola DCX3200, it's pretty simple to look up a few channels, sort of a PITA to look up every single channel. Plus, it is possible that the cableco could change the flag on a show-by-show basis, although I don't know how likely that is.

If you haven't already, google your cable box to locate all of the various manuals available for it, hopefully one of them will explain how to get to the diagnostics menu for your specific box.