Screen stutter with SageTV v7 Client

[nflanders]

I have what is arguably the reference standard PC configuration, but I can't seem to fix a screen stutter issue when outputting via SageTV Client. My test file is an OTA local newscast with a ticker crawl at the bottom that I recorded with SageTV. When I play it via Windows Media Center or an HD-300, it works flawlessly and smooth, but when I play it with the SageTV Client there's a noticeable frame stutter/jump every few seconds that's quite noticeable when watching the crawl text. Symptoms are identical on both a primary monitor and secondary TV display.

I've searched the Forums/web up and down and tried everything except loading third party codecs, which---after countless hours setting up this HTPC---I stubbornly refuse to delve into on the grounds that this configuration---of all configurations---should work "as is". I've tried every combination of Video Renderer and MPEG2 Video Decoder settings at least once: "Default" shows the SageTV menus but no program, "Overlay" shows a scrambled program, "VMR9" and "EVR" work decently but have the stutter issue.

Has anyone seen and/or solved this issue? Does anybody have an H67/HD graphics-based board that works without stuttering? Any help is very much appreciated.

Configuration: Intel Sandy Bridge i5-2500K CPU, Intel DG67BL motherboard using integrated HD Graphics 3000, 2GBx2 Gskill F3-1066 DDR3 memory, Intel X25-M 120GB SSD (for OS/Apps), Samsung HD204UI 2TB HDD (for data/media, formatted in 64k clusters), VGA-connected Samsung 10x7 primary monitor, HDMI-connected Samsung TV as extended display, 1 GbE wired LAN, Silicon Dust HDHomeRun dual OTA tuner, Windows 7 Home Premium SP1, SageTV v7 Clients, all availavle BIOS/FW/SW patches applied (to my knowledge)

Correction: Actually I'm not using SageTV Client, I'm using SageTV Media Center Windows v7 on this machine as both the Server (via service mode) _and_ built-in client to a local display. So I'm not even going across a LAN in the problematic case...

[panteragstk]

Just because something should work doesn't mean that it will. I've had the sage decoder work perfectly with one video card only to fail with another, so I understand the frustration. Try the amd mpeg 2 decoder. It is free and it is the one I've gotten to work when all others fail. Even the MS-DTV decoder doesn't work for me.

[stevech]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

Just because something should work doesn't mean that it will. I've had the sage decoder work perfectly with one video card only to fail with another, so I understand the frustration. Try the amd mpeg 2 decoder. It is free and it is the one I've gotten to work when all others fail. Even the MS-DTV decoder doesn't work for me.

For my edification, if the OP has an Intel DG67BL motherboard using integrated HD Graphics 3000, and is having trouble with H264 playback, would the drivers suggested be applicable?

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by stevech

For my edification, if the OP has an Intel DG67BL motherboard using integrated HD Graphics 3000, and is having trouble with H264 playback, would the drivers suggested be applicable?

If it is ota then it isn't h.264 it is mpeg2. They aren't drivers it is a decoder. I use it and have nothing in my client made by amd. For some reason it works very well for every video device I've used which include intel hd graphics (the clarkdale version), ati/amd, and nvidia and it works great with them all.

to the OP: Basically, what you do with this is run the download and it will extract the files. You then go to the bin folder and run the codec install. The folder in the bin folder you are looking for used to be avivo, but would be something else now. I'll give you a more detailed walkthrough if you can't find it.

[SWKerr]

Is the cpu higher when playing back in Sage then in MCE?

Is it just the ticker that is not smooth or the whole screen. If you block that part of the screen does it still appear not to be smooth.

Have you installed an external splitter like the Haali Media Splitter?
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/Haali_Media_Splitter

I usually use the Haali splitter with ffdshow with the video codec of choice. I usually get my best picture with the the Cyberlink codec.

Can't say I have used intel graphics in quite awhile as they generally suck.

[texneus]

In all honesty, under win7 just use the built in decoders for both audio and video. Works perfect for me and should be compatible with a wide range of hardware for MPG2 and H.264 and there is nothing extra to install. It's at least worth a shot for troubleshooting purposes.

[nflanders]

OK, if you're all willing to suggest codec changes based on your positive experiences, then I'm willing to give them a try---I've spent too many hours on this beast to throw in the towel now…

Panteregstk:
From your link, I selected the 6800 series on the survey page, and it then downloads a file called "11-5_xp32-64_xcode.exe". Upon execution, it extracts files to the drive and then prepares to install the "AMD Catalyst" software, which I cancelled. I don't find anything obvious to run in the BIN or BIN64 directories, so perhaps I do need another tip where to go next.

SWKerr:
CPU is mildly higher in Sage than in WMC---see below.
The whole screen stutters ever so slightly, but it's most discernable when you watch a steadily moving feature like a ticker crawl. Kind of headache inducing after a while.
I haven't tried the Haali Media Splitter yet. Will try that after the AMD decoder…

Texneus: To which built-in decoders are you refering? I tried the 4 Sage-listed options as described above to no avail, and tried them again per below, exiting and restarting SageTV between each change:

Video Renderer / MPEG decoder filter / CPU Util / observation
VMR9 / Default / ~14% / stutter
VMR9 / MS DTV-DVD / ~14% / stutter
VMR9 / SageTV MPEG / ~12% / stutter
EVR / Default / ~9% / stutter
EVR / MS DTV-DVD / 9% / stutter
EVR / SagetTV MPEG / 19% / stutter
WMC with the same file and HDTV display: ~3% CPU / very mild stutter, but degrades to about like Sage if I move the mouse focus to another window. (Note correction to OP---if I watch it long enough, WMC output isn't perfect either)
HD300 with the same file (via GbE LAN) and HDTV display: smooth playback

I can make the stutter worse if I run dual TV DVR streams, i.e.WMC to one display and Sage to the other (not my goal, just a test). Then they can both get very jumpy, especially if I take focus off WMC, even though CPU utilization is still only ~20% and neither the CPU nor graphics frequencies even start to Turbo up.

Nit typo correction: My board is a DH67BL, not DG67BL.

[panteragstk]

Sorry, it was in the packages, apps, avivoxp folder. I uploaded the file for you.

Here you go. Install that and see if it works.

If that doesn't work then I'd start looking at the driver version you have installed. Make sure you have the latest, because if 3 decoders have the same issue and even WMP has the issue then it isn't the decoders or sage, it would have to be something else.

[SWKerr]

Try to download VLC and play one of the files with it.
http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

I would install the ffdshow just for Audio but it also has a MPEG2 decoder.

[nflanders]

Panteregstk: I ran the AVIVO installer from both your uploaded file and the extracted directory on my machine, but both attempts yielded errors for failing to load two .dll's. Proceeding anyway, I didn't see any new MPEG decoder options to select in SageTV. The installer fiename references "XP"---is it possible these aren't compatible with Win7-64?

SWKerr: I loaded VLC and the video was actually more stuttery.

Given the consistent symptoms across players , I agree maybe it's something besides codecs. All my drivers/BIOS are up to date. I tried mildly overclocking the integrated graphics to 1.5 GHz---no change. I'll take my test file into work to try another machine today for comparison...

[rrhorer]

Are your two displays' differing requirements somehow causing extra work for your integrated graphics to the point of stuttering? VLC should not stutter. Why not try temporarily disabling the LCD primary and use the TV by itself?

[nflanders]

Update:
- I tried the same MPEG2 test file on a different machine with the same motherboard model and clean Win7-64 build, using 7MC to a single DVI-connected LCD-> it still stutters similar to earlier tests on the original machine. (to rule out dual display overtaxing the GPU and some Samsung HDTVs' own "judder" issues)
- Loaded default install of latest VLC -> still stutters, and now has very grainy text on the ticker crawl (very odd/unusual for VLC, but not sure what could be wrong here)
- I then dropped in an EVGA GeForce 8800 GTX to replace the Intel HD3000 graphics, with 7MC -> mild stutter similar to original setup. When I updated to the latest GeForce driver, only the ticker crawl (not the rest of the picture) got _very_ stuttery and any moving text became very grainy---also odd… but probably rules out [lack of] GPU horsepower as the cause.
- It's probably safe to deem this issue non-Sage-related, other than that the HD300 appears to be the only config that runs smoothly at present.
- Started to install FFDshow, but didn't finish yet…

[SWKerr]

A $40 Video card will probably solve this problem pretty easy.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by nflanders

Panteregstk: I ran the AVIVO installer from both your uploaded file and the extracted directory on my machine, but both attempts yielded errors for failing to load two .dll's. Proceeding anyway, I didn't see any new MPEG decoder options to select in SageTV. The installer fiename references "XP"---is it possible these aren't compatible with Win7-64?

SWKerr: I loaded VLC and the video was actually more stuttery.

Given the consistent symptoms across players , I agree maybe it's something besides codecs. All my drivers/BIOS are up to date. I tried mildly overclocking the integrated graphics to 1.5 GHz---no change. I'll take my test file into work to try another machine today for comparison...

.dll's? That is odd. I use this on w7 64bit with no issues at all.

Originally Posted by nflanders

Update:
- I tried the same MPEG2 test file on a different machine with the same motherboard model and clean Win7-64 build, using 7MC to a single DVI-connected LCD-> it still stutters similar to earlier tests on the original machine. (to rule out dual display overtaxing the GPU and some Samsung HDTVs' own "judder" issues)
- Loaded default install of latest VLC -> still stutters, and now has very grainy text on the ticker crawl (very odd/unusual for VLC, but not sure what could be wrong here)
- I then dropped in an EVGA GeForce 8800 GTX to replace the Intel HD3000 graphics, with 7MC -> mild stutter similar to original setup. When I updated to the latest GeForce driver, only the ticker crawl (not the rest of the picture) got _very_ stuttery and any moving text became very grainy---also odd… but probably rules out [lack of] GPU horsepower as the cause.
- It's probably safe to deem this issue non-Sage-related, other than that the HD300 appears to be the only config that runs smoothly at present.
- Started to install FFDshow, but didn't finish yet…

I use an 8800 GT that is less powerful than your GTX and do not have this issue. Since it happens across players you have a fun issue to resolve. I think you are on the right track trying to play it on another machine. Good luck.

[nflanders]

- I finally managed to install the Avivio decoder. Even though I was running the installer as an administrator in Win7-64\HP, it was giving me an error code that translated to "access denied". It finally installed when I enabled the default/hidden "Administrator" account, which may have been the fix, or maybe just that it disables the UAC---not sure which. Unfortunately, it didn't fix the ticker crawl stutter problem (no apparent change vs. previous. EVR renderer/"Default" decoder settings).
- Then I installed ffdshow and enabled the "ffdshow video decoder" in Sage, but again no improvement. Tried various renderer/decoder permutations of these two as well.
- So I can't seem to fix the stutter by changing the renderer, decoder, graphics device, board model, display monitor, display connection, or media player, _but_ playback via an HD300 works fine (well, with some mild but tolerable font aliasing glitches).
- For those who might say "just get another HD300 and save the frustration"---fair point---but (a) it's become a personal challenge, (b) the PC is already there and darn well should be able to work better than a simple STB, (c) I have two HD300s in other rooms and one of them suffers from WAF-risking lock ups---possibly defective---and (d) an HD300 is dog slow for Sage My Movies, whereas the PC kicks butt in this regard and other general UI snappiness.

I'm starting to think I'm cursed or overly picky, except virtually every thread on stutter/judder/jumpy video I read ends trails off to a dead end as well. But I'll keep looking… any other suggestions or experience are welcome/appreciated.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by nflanders

- I finally managed to install the Avivio decoder. Even though I was running the installer as an administrator in Win7-64\HP, it was giving me an error code that translated to "access denied". It finally installed when I enabled the default/hidden "Administrator" account, which may have been the fix, or maybe just that it disables the UAC---not sure which. Unfortunately, it didn't fix the ticker crawl stutter problem (no apparent change vs. previous. EVR renderer/"Default" decoder settings).
- Then I installed ffdshow and enabled the "ffdshow video decoder" in Sage, but again no improvement. Tried various renderer/decoder permutations of these two as well.
- So I can't seem to fix the stutter by changing the renderer, decoder, graphics device, board model, display monitor, display connection, or media player, _but_ playback via an HD300 works fine (well, with some mild but tolerable font aliasing glitches).
- For those who might say "just get another HD300 and save the frustration"---fair point---but (a) it's become a personal challenge, (b) the PC is already there and darn well should be able to work better than a simple STB, (c) I have two HD300s in other rooms and one of them suffers from WAF-risking lock ups---possibly defective---and (d) an HD300 is dog slow for Sage My Movies, whereas the PC kicks butt in this regard and other general UI snappiness.

I'm starting to think I'm cursed or overly picky, except virtually every thread on stutter/judder/jumpy video I read ends trails off to a dead end as well. But I'll keep looking… any other suggestions or experience are welcome/appreciated.

Would you be able to send me part of the file that has the stutter issue? I'd like to see if it would work on my system.

[rrhorer]

I don't know if it will have any effect; but, if you still have UAC enabled, dump it - it can be a real PITA for an HTPC that usually doesn't need it in the first place. Also, check what other program(s) may be active during playback (anti-virus, etc.). Try disabling security stuff just for a check run. I'm not suggesting to leave it disabled; but, if you can find the problem, then you can set things up to address it.

[stevech]

Could it simply be that with your
Intel DH67BL mbd w/ HD Graphics 3000
Microsoft's software doesn't recognize that (new) hardware and driver and so there's no HD acceleration in effect? (CPU utilization would be a clue)

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by stevech

Could it simply be that with your
Intel DH67BL mbd w/ HD Graphics 3000
Microsoft's software doesn't recognize that (new) hardware and driver and so there's no HD acceleration in effect? (CPU utilization would be a clue)

I bet this has something to do with the CPU utilization. I've got an older video card and the MS decoders never used DXVA with it. I never tried it with the intel HD graphics due to the lack of panel scaling. I had to use another video card to fix that issue before I could worry about playback.

[nflanders]

- Panateregstk: Sample file is uploaded here that demonstrates the ticker stutter. Unfortunately, my test file that showed general video stutter got deleted---still trying to record another.
- Rrhorer: I've tried disabling UAC and AV with no improvement. I'll try a clean OS-only build w/ only 7MC when I get a chance…
- Stevech: My understanding is that Win7-SP1 supports the HD2000/3000 graphics, and CPU is only ~10% per data above, so acceleration seems to be on. That and I had the same symptoms with a mature EVGA 8800 GTX…