Well I thought WMC was a solution...

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Just kidding Fuzzy one day I will miss our bickering keeps the blood flowing

sadly, I think he was talking to Stanger89...

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

sadly, I think he was talking to Stanger89...

Oh well than that makes 100% more since j/k

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Biggen

Are you a used car salesman

Seriously, a product that is EOL is MORE attractive than when still in production?

Considering I am happier with sagetv now than I was 6 months ago - yes. It is more attractive to current users than it was then. How has it's feature set degraded over that 6 months to where it doesn't work the way you want any more?

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Considering I am happier with sagetv now than I was 6 months ago - yes. It is more attractive to current users than it was then. How has it's feature set degraded over that 6 months to where it doesn't work the way you want any more?

Reliable TV is my biggest issue. I was a hold out of CC support and now know that is never going to happen (maybe with google). I could never get hdpvr working reliably (tried 3 of them) and the collusus is even a bigger mess for me. I realize some have this working with 100% reliability but I never had. So it hasn't degraded by any means but just no longer has the chance of advancing (not to mention netflix,hulu etc never happening now)

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Reliable TV is my biggest issue. I was a hold out of CC support and now know that is never going to happen (maybe with google). I could never get hdpvr working reliably (tried 3 of them) and the collusus is even a bigger mess for me. I realize some have this working with 100% reliability but I never had. So it hasn't degraded by any means but just no longer has the chance of advancing (not to mention netflix,hulu etc never happening now)

I think that is the biggest reason to be excited about the aquisition. We may actually get hulu (especially if google buys them) and netflix integration, maybe cablecard too. Granted it won't be the sage we have now so that is a down side. Plus all the work you dev's have done to make it better than anything else out there. I don't know what I'd do without SMM, ortus, tve and the numerous other plugins I use daily.

I'm going to get a colossus when I upgrade my server and I hope it will be painless for me. If it isn't the colossus will go back to newegg and the directv will be canceled. Simple. I've lived with ota for almost 4 years and downloading the rest and I've been pretty happy. I'd like it to be less effort (and be able to watch my college football team again), but I'm not going to stress out about it.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Considering I am happier with sagetv now than I was 6 months ago - yes. It is more attractive to current users than it was then. How has it's feature set degraded over that 6 months to where it doesn't work the way you want any more?

We have to agree to disagree here. Yes, Sage still works and should work fine for another 11 months (recording wise anyway). But to think I am "happier" now with the buyout is wrong. At least for me...

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Biggen

We have to agree to disagree here. Yes, Sage still works and should work fine for another 11 months (recording wise anyway). But to think I am "happier" now with the buyout is wrong. At least for me...

That's because you are putting more stock in your feelings about the product, and not what the product actually does for you (which has not changed one bit).

Even in 11 months, IF the sage provided EPG goes away (which we have no more reason to believe it will stop than keep going at this point), it's about 15-20 minutes to get XMLTV data set up with MC2XML, and you're right back where you are now.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

That's because you are putting more stock in your feelings about the product, and not what the product actually does for you (which has not changed one bit).

Even in 11 months, IF the sage provided EPG goes away (which we have no more reason to believe it will stop than keep going at this point), it's about 15-20 minutes to get XMLTV data set up with MC2XML, and you're right back where you are now.

And that is what will make sage continue to be used in my house.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Reliable TV is my biggest issue. I was a hold out of CC support and now know that is never going to happen (maybe with google). I could never get hdpvr working reliably (tried 3 of them) and the collusus is even a bigger mess for me. I realize some have this working with 100% reliability but I never had. So it hasn't degraded by any means but just no longer has the chance of advancing (not to mention netflix,hulu etc never happening now)

I never cared about CC, because, frankly, I've never cared about cable. It simply doesn't offer the programming I want - so is not an option. The thing is, the network tuner interface could work for pretty much any future non-DRM'd source that could come along - as long as it can be recorded to a sage playable media file. I've used the R5000HD network tuner for years now, and love it.

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I think that is the biggest reason to be excited about the aquisition. We may actually get hulu (especially if google buys them) and netflix integration, maybe cablecard too. Granted it won't be the sage we have now so that is a down side. Plus all the work you dev's have done to make it better than anything else out there. I don't know what I'd do without SMM, ortus, tve and the numerous other plugins I use daily.

I'm going to get a colossus when I upgrade my server and I hope it will be painless for me. If it isn't the colossus will go back to newegg and the directv will be canceled. Simple. I've lived with ota for almost 4 years and downloading the rest and I've been pretty happy. I'd like it to be less effort (and be able to watch my college football team again), but I'm not going to stress out about it.

Hulu, like cable, is useless to me, as it simply can't get the programming i want (which is what this sage thing is all about afterall).

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Biggen

2. You don't believe Sage could have been a competitor to GoogleTV? Really?

No I don't, not big enough to justify being squashed.

What if Sage down the road had gotten Netflix ability? Facebook connectivity? Hulu?

Seriously? Sage is about the only product now that doesn't have Netflix/Facebook/Hulu already. What about Boxee? If Google was worried about competitors they have much more to worry about from Microsoft (Xbox 360), Boxee, WD, Tivo, etc, etc, than to pick up a company most people have never even heard of that doesn't have hardly any features in parallel with GoogleTV. Most TVs and Blu-ray players these days are far more competitive against GoogleTV than SageTV was, or showed any signs of becoming in the forseable future.

3. Who is going to pay for the EPG after our year (really 11 months now) is up? Google? Jeff?

Yeah, maybe Google. And if not, there's always Schedules Direct (assuming Sage customers can get a waiver).

4. Do you really expect plugin development to continue into the foreseeable future? I know the Diamond team said they would start back up again after the summer break but do we really expect them to invest their time into a product that is dying?

The Phoenix team is, and that's one of the big projects going on.

I have read many of your posts here and on AVS over the last year or two. You are an intelligent person and I have to believe you have to be worried about our alternatives because right now there simply isn't anything on the market like Sage and its future is doomed. No matter how any of us sugar coat it there is no upgrade path with SageTV any longer.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm keeping an eye out for alternatives. I'm not optimisic that anything resembling SageTV proper will come out of the acquisition. I think the best, realistic, hope we have is for an entirely new product (GoogleTV 2) that rolls in SageTV's DVR functionality. Blue-sky ideal would be for an Android@Home/SageTV/GoogleTV hybrid, but I don't really find that too likely.

My point was simply twofold:

First, I just can't see how SageTV would be considered a threat to anyone. They're much too far behind the curve on streaming services and overall they're just way too small.

The second is that we've got a year to figure things out. No reason to jump the gun. We can take our time and thoroughly research the alternatives and make an informed, calm, and well planned decision.

And of course the more I look at alternatives, the closer I come to the conclusion that even completely unsupported, and needing ebay extenders, SageTV is likely still best product for me, even if I have to get guide data elsewhere.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I never cared about CC, because, frankly, I've never cared about cable. It simply doesn't offer the programming I want - so is not an option. The thing is, the network tuner interface could work for pretty much any future non-DRM'd source that could come along - as long as it can be recorded to a sage playable media file. I've used the R5000HD network tuner for years now, and love it.

That's the point "non-DRM'd" you won't see any outside of hauppauuge's POS's. (my opinion). Some people are lucky enough to get drm free cable card recordings but I believe in time that will pass as well. I am not so lucky and the sattelite and cable companies dvr suck so the only option is cablecard and WMC.

Yes I think googletv will have this stuff but it will be a far far cry from sagetv imho. IT will be locked down even worse then WMC imho. You don't see a computer server/client architeture out of it because that is not mass market. You will see a simple server box/client box interface that will be locked down. I don't see why anyone would think any different. HTPC is not mass market and google wants the mass.

[PLUCKYHD]

And too I used r5000's as well in the past. They were okay as well but talk about expensive and not future proof.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Biggen

We have to agree to disagree here. Yes, Sage still works and should work fine for another 11 months (recording wise anyway). But to think I am "happier" now with the buyout is wrong. At least for me...

(Pending any awesome news from Google/Jeff) Of course, I'd be happier if it were business as normal and SageTV were still SageTV. That said, I agree with Fuzzy, but to add, the whole acquisition has given me a new appreciation for Sage.

I've been using SageTV for a long time, and while it's done enough for me, reading AVS all the time, I couldn't help but develop a sort of feeling that I was missing something by using Sage. All the talk about WMC and Mediabrowser and XBMC and the like and their large followings, basically I always assumed that Sage wasn't all that special in the grand scheme of things.

Then Google happened, it shook me out of my complacency, and I've looked around at the alternatives. And quite frankly, there aren't any that meet my needs as well as Sage, even with it being no longer for sale.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

...the sattelite and cable companies dvr suck so the only option is cablecard and WMC.

Here's hoping the HR34 will live up to it's potential.

Yes I think googletv will have this stuff but it will be a far far cry from sagetv imho. IT will be locked down even worse then WMC imho. You don't see a computer server/client architeture out of it because that is not mass market. You will see a simple server box/client box interface that will be locked down. I don't see why anyone would think any different. HTPC is not mass market and google wants the mass.

Yeah, let's hope there's an "installer" version with more potential.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Here's hoping the HR34 will live up to it's potential.

to me cablecard and wmc is still a better option as at least on the main box you get integrated netflix and blurary/dvd playback. And with a little transcoding work you get it to playback on the extenders as well.

Originally Posted by stanger89

Yeah, let's hope there's an "installer" version with more potential.

I just don't see it not because Google won't want it but because to get the content deals the providers will want and demand it locked down. Same reason you don't see dvd streaming natively on xbox and wmc. Content providers hold the keys and they know it. It sucks but it is what it is. A open platform is death to content providers because they live in the stone ages.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

to me cablecard and wmc is still a better option...

Except I could not hardly hate cable any more than I do now. Probably largely due to having the worst cable company in the country.

as at least on the main box you get integrated netflix and blurary/dvd playback.

I don't have that now, I hate PowerDVD and TMT never worked for me so I bought a Pioneer, very happy I did.

And with a little transcoding work you get it to playback on the extenders as well.

Unacceptable IMO. I already more often than not play the BD from my Pioneer than Sage because I don't have an HBR decoding SSP so I can't bitstream HBR audio. I would go without before I resort to transcoding everything.

[lfilomeno]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

That's because you are putting more stock in your feelings about the product, and not what the product actually does for you (which has not changed one bit).

Even in 11 months, IF the sage provided EPG goes away (which we have no more reason to believe it will stop than keep going at this point), it's about 15-20 minutes to get XMLTV data set up with MC2XML, and you're right back where you are now.

I agree with you fuzzy. I do believe SageTV will keep on working fine. What got me concerned is the extenders (ability to expand the system).

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

And too I used r5000's as well in the past. They were okay as well but talk about expensive and not future proof.

I still prefer them over any alternative.. and I'm not sure on the 'future proof' aspect of them.. All they do is receive what is broadcast. I don't see dish deactivating the ViP-211's any time in the next 4 or 5 years, as I don't see a need to move to something beyond H.264 (if such a thing even exists). The only reason the older boxes don't work any-more is because of the H.264 shift. As long as my 211's work, the R-5000's will be my primary source of content - and they still provide much better quality in much less space than a cablecard solution would (5Mbps H.264 is far better than the 8-10Mbps MPEG-2 I'd get from a cable-card), and MUCH better than the re-encoded 12Mbps H.264 I'd get with an HD-PVR/Colossus. Also, the DiY kits weren't all that expensive... of course, they were well worth it, as I bought them before the HD-PVR existed.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by stanger89

I don't have that now, I hate PowerDVD and TMT never worked for me so I bought a Pioneer, very happy I did.

Wow are you missing out. I can never go back to the days of inserting a disc. Call it lazy or whatever but with kids it's inevetiable wrong disc get put in wrong cases and then finding the one you want is a nightmare

Originally Posted by stanger89

Unacceptable IMO. I already more often than not play the BD from my Pioneer than Sage because I don't have an HBR decoding SSP so I can't bitstream HBR audio. I would go without before I resort to transcoding everything.

Well I am script batching it. I still get the full rip at the server location (theater room) with hd audio and all and then the transcoded copy for the extenders. It really isn't bad. Not perfect but nothing is really. There are exceptions/trangressions to everything out there. With Sage it was be stuck with the hdpvr/collusus and constant issure for me.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I still prefer them over any alternative.. and I'm not sure on the 'future proof' aspect of them.. All they do is receive what is broadcast. I don't see dish deactivating the ViP-211's any time in the next 4 or 5 years, as I don't see a need to move to something beyond H.264 (if such a thing even exists). The only reason the older boxes don't work any-more is because of the H.264 shift. As long as my 211's work, the R-5000's will be my primary source of content - and they still provide much better quality in much less space than a cablecard solution would (5Mbps H.264 is far better than the 8-10Mbps MPEG-2 I'd get from a cable-card), and MUCH better than the re-encoded 12Mbps H.264 I'd get with an HD-PVR/Colossus. Also, the DiY kits weren't all that expensive... of course, they were well worth it, as I bought them before the HD-PVR existed.

I am more worried about longevity of the boxes (had 2 211's go out on me) add to that the boxes will eventually dissapear from inventory (right now I couldn't get dish to send me anything but the 211k). Space is a none arguement IMHO as cheap as storage is these days. Each is a native capture obviously h.264 is going to be smaller. That being said Dish networks hd feeds are highly compressed this days. Not that cables aren't but they aren't as bad as dish's were for me. IT all came when they started adding all the locals in HD and just went downhill from there. When watching sports and such the compression is almost unbearable to me at times. IT is a better solution then hdpvr but over $500 for 2 tuners is a bit ridicilous then you still have to pay monthly fees to dishnetwork (which always pissed me off I bought the boxes and still had to pay monthly to us them!!).

Everyone has what suites them and I was just stating where sage was starting to fail in my household. I love sage or I wouldn't have put so much dev time in it but you are kidding yourself if you don't say they were failing behind in many areas of the tv function.

[aflat]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

That's the point "non-DRM'd" you won't see any outside of hauppauuge's POS's. (my opinion). Some people are lucky enough to get drm free cable card recordings but I believe in time that will pass as well. I am not so lucky and the sattelite and cable companies dvr suck so the only option is cablecard and WMC.

Yes I think googletv will have this stuff but it will be a far far cry from sagetv imho. IT will be locked down even worse then WMC imho. You don't see a computer server/client architeture out of it because that is not mass market. You will see a simple server box/client box interface that will be locked down. I don't see why anyone would think any different. HTPC is not mass market and google wants the mass.

If GoogleTV does end up getting DVR capabilities, with extenders then DRM is almost a moot point. DRM doesn't prevent streaming to extenders. Even WMC can do that using a 360. Also, the big push for cable companies now is the whole home DVR. 1 DVR can record and you can watch it anywhere. Something that we have had for years is finally catching on mainstream, and Google just bought their way into the market.