Well I thought WMC was a solution...

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by aflat

If GoogleTV does end up getting DVR capabilities, with extenders then DRM is almost a moot point. DRM doesn't prevent streaming to extenders. Even WMC can do that using a 360. Also, the big push for cable companies now is the whole home DVR. 1 DVR can record and you can watch it anywhere. Something that we have had for years is finally catching on mainstream, and Google just bought their way into the market.

Yeah but it's not the DRM I was refering to in Google that is given. More the streaming of native movie rips and such I don't see happening due to the content providers strict restrictions that will be in place like on MS. Wasn't saying it would prevent streaming of tv at all...In fact said it will likely be a server/client box orientation.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Wow are you missing out.

Yup, missing out on all those fun decoder and driver issues

I can never go back to the days of inserting a disc. Call it lazy or whatever but with kids it's inevetiable wrong disc get put in wrong cases and then finding the one you want is a nightmare

I've got all my DVDs and BDs on my unRAID and my ReadyNAS, and I can access them all through Sage, but even so, for example when we watched LOTR EE on Blu-ray over the weekend, or Inception last week, I actually went an put the discs in so I could get the full TrueHD/DTS-HD MA audio, vs the DD or DTS I'm stuck with through my extenders due to the limitations of my SSP.

Well I am script batching it. I still get the full rip at the server location (theater room) with hd audio and all and then the transcoded copy for the extenders. It really isn't bad.

It's not the effort, it's the degradation. The point of my story is I've got full quality rips available to me now, online that I can play at the press of a button, and even with that, I still will still sometimes choose to put the disk in for the better audio. And that difference is far, far less than the total difference of transcoded audio and video required for the Xbox. If I don't use my full quality rips now due to my audio limits, there's no way I'd use them if I had to kill the audio and video just for extender compatibility.

Not perfect but nothing is really. There are exceptions/trangressions to everything out there. With Sage it was be stuck with the hdpvr/collusus and constant issure for me.

Well WMC doesn't have a better satellite solution anyway so the whole question is moot for me. If I had to make a choice for a different solution right now, it would most likely be DirecTV HR34 for my TV (or maybe a Dish with Sling receivers) and something like a Dune for my media.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Yup, missing out on all those fun decoder and driver issues



I've got all my DVDs and BDs on my unRAID and my ReadyNAS, and I can access them all through Sage, but even so, for example when we watched LOTR EE on Blu-ray over the weekend, or Inception last week, I actually went an put the discs in so I could get the full TrueHD/DTS-HD MA audio, vs the DD or DTS I'm stuck with through my extenders due to the limitations of my SSP.



It's not the effort, it's the degradation. The point of my story is I've got full quality rips available to me now, online that I can play at the press of a button, and even with that, I still will still sometimes choose to put the disk in for the better audio. And that difference is far, far less than the total difference of transcoded audio and video required for the Xbox. If I don't use my full quality rips now due to my audio limits, there's no way I'd use them if I had to kill the audio and video just for extender compatibility.



Well WMC doesn't have a better satellite solution anyway so the whole question is moot for me. If I had to make a choice for a different solution right now, it would most likely be DirecTV HR34 for my TV (or maybe a Dish with Sling receivers) and something like a Dune for my media.

SSP? The HD300 supports full HD Audio streaming out the HDMI port... As does any video card made new in the last year and a half or so (I'm using the i3's build in GPU for mine). How are you getting HDAudio from your bluray player and not from your extender? As for codecs.. I went all crazy installing windows 7 - ffdshow - and then sagetv client... then started using it.. wouldn't really call it codec hell.

[mayamaniac]

I wonder how many people just discovered SageTV within the last few months, or jumped on the SageTV ship after v7 was released like the OP did. And they've been testing and making sure everything works before buying all the licenses and extenders to fill the home, building a complete SageTV system. And then BAM! Google acquired SageTV! It gotta suck for these people, but I imagine they are the minority few that voiced their frustrations the loudest within the last few weeks. However, minority or not, Jeff should still continue to figure something out to help these folks.

Those of us running SageTV for years now already bought all the components and licenses we need, so the Google acquisition doesn't impact us much, if not in any way at all.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

I wonder how many people just discovered SageTV within the last few months, or jumped on the SageTV ship after v7 was released like the OP did. And they've been testing and making sure everything works before buying all the licenses and extenders to fill the home, building a complete SageTV system. And then BAM! Google acquired SageTV! It gotta suck for these people, but I imagine they are the minority few that voiced their frustrations the loudest within the last few weeks. However, minority or not, Jeff should still continue to figure something out to help these folks.

Those of us running SageTV for years now already bought all the components and licenses we need, so the Google acquisition doesn't impact us much, if not in any way at all.

That's nothing.. imagine how many people never heard of SageTV until they saw the news that Google had bought them... only to discover what they've been missing all this time, and that they can't have any...

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

SSP?

Surround sound processor.

The HD300 supports full HD Audio streaming out the HDMI port... As does any video card made new in the last year and a half or so (I'm using the i3's build in GPU for mine). How are you getting HDAudio from your bluray player and not from your extender?

Like I said, limitations of my SSP, I've got an Anthem AVM20, it lacks HDMI so the only way to get HBR audio is to decode on player, obviously the HD300 can't, but my Pioneer does (one of the reasons I chose it). Haven't talked myself into an AVM50V yet.

As for codecs.. I went all crazy installing windows 7 - ffdshow - and then sagetv client... then started using it.. wouldn't really call it codec hell.

But it's never that easy, there's always some nagging issue with PC playback, some random glitches, no native output switching, playback stability issues if you try to auto-switch refresh rates, bugs with output levels/inconsistency depending on content. Going back to PC playback is not very high on my list.

[Biggen]

Thought I would step back in here....

Nice comments guys. Even if we don't all agree, we are still in the same boat together!

Well I decided to fire up my 360 and see what a "real extender" looks like. Unfortunately, I didn't get very far. The ethernet port is dead on it. I took a power surge last week and it took out various parts of my network. Damn lightening hit a few doors down and I guess I got induced voltage from the strike. Already replaced 2 switches and one NIC. So now I have two options: Buy a slim or send in my old one for repair for $100.

*sigh*

I am guess I am lucky all three of my HD-300's survived...

[SteveD]

I for one will use my sage until it is no longer compatible with future available operating systems and hardware. As stated in matrix " there are levels of survival we are willing to acept". The xmltv importer test I ran after the announcement proved easy to implement. I have change one line in the property file to put it back on line.

[graywolf]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

Those of us running SageTV for years now already bought all the components and licenses we need, so the Google acquisition doesn't impact us much, if not in any way at all.

Not true. As I do have extenders for my current needs, I do not have any Client licenses to switch to once the extenders fail.

If Jeff/Google releases something in order to allow those of us that want client licenses to purchase, or code which does not require client license to connect to a licensed Sage server, THEN I would have all that I need.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Yeah but it's not the DRM I was refering to in Google that is given. More the streaming of native movie rips and such I don't see happening due to the content providers strict restrictions that will be in place like on MS. Wasn't saying it would prevent streaming of tv at all...In fact said it will likely be a server/client box orientation.

I'm hoping that Google turns a deaf ear to the content cartels' complaints. Being able to play open formats remotely has legitimate uses like playback of home movies. They don't seem to be listening to the RIAA's whining over Google Music, for example, which is likely to be a greater source of piracy.

What I really wish is that Google would buy up all the member companies of the RIAA and MPAA & fire all the execs and end DRM for good. Oh, and I want a pony..

Drew

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by drewg

I'm hoping that Google turns a deaf ear to the content cartels' complaints. Being able to play open formats remotely has legitimate uses like playback of home movies. They don't seem to be listening to the RIAA's whining over Google Music, for example, which is likely to be a greater source of piracy.

What I really wish is that Google would buy up all the member companies of the RIAA and MPAA & fire all the execs and end DRM for good. Oh, and I want a pony..

Drew

No you are dreaming. They can turn a deaf ear but they will lose CableCard and things that are mass appeal for doing so. It just doens't seem possible to have the two coexist.

[jayman]

Like the op, I've been exploring this avenue as well. Overall, I like the following in 7MC
1. integrated netflix with searching across native 7MC internet video apps (netflix, internet tv, etc). Netflix on 7MC behaves more like a roku when compared to playon
2. The stock UI
3. Native cablecard support
4. Media Browser and TMT integration

What I'm struggling with, mainly across tv sharing on 2 pc's, is shown in the following post (I'm j_the_alchemist)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post20663260

What I'm leaning towards:
1. Sell three HD300's at a premium
2. Use Sage server as client in main viewing location...easy to do with my setup. This box is always on anyway so no huge difference in power consumption.
3. deploy an old Sage client licence to net top pc in bedroom
4. Use roku box in exercise room (wife only uses sage there to watch recorded movies, many of which can also be found instantly on netflix). A sage extender or client there is overkill for what is viewed there.

Is there a way to launch the MC7 netflix and internet tv apps (or 7MC itself) within Sage on a pc client, bring it to focus, then bring back sage after exiting the app/7MC? I have a media center IR receiver for each pc, which can be used to control both sage and 7MC. Also Media Center Studio can be used to strip out all menu items from media center, and I can leave Netflix, search, and internet tv behind. So if 7MC is launched from within sage, then all you'd see are those functions? Thoughts?

Thanks

Jay

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by stanger89

But it's never that easy, there's always some nagging issue with PC playback, some random glitches, no native output switching, playback stability issues if you try to auto-switch refresh rates, bugs with output levels/inconsistency depending on content. Going back to PC playback is not very high on my list.

I had all of those issues when I started with a client, but for the most part they are gone. Yes, the videos with varying types of audio play at different levels, but my volume button is easy to use so it is a non issue. As for refresh rate switching, I don't have a compatible display (yet, next month) so that isn't an issue, but it will be very soon and I hope to find a solution.

I wonder if someone could make a plugin to make that happen for us?

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

I had all of those issues when I started with a client, but for the most part they are gone. Yes, the videos with varying types of audio play at different levels, but my volume button is easy to use so it is a non issue. As for refresh rate switching, I don't have a compatible display (yet, next month) so that isn't an issue, but it will be very soon and I hope to find a solution.

I wonder if someone could make a plugin to make that happen for us?

There are auto refresh software out there if you look to change the resolution I always prefer native as my tv does a better job at scaling.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

There are auto refresh software out there if you look to change the resolution I always prefer native as my tv does a better job at scaling.

Me too. I'd rather have the projector display the correct refresh rate rather than convert it to 60hz like it is now. I found one I'll try when I get home.

[david1234]

Originally Posted by drewg

What I really wish is that Google would buy up all the member companies of the RIAA and MPAA & fire all the execs and end DRM for good. Oh, and I want a pony..

I don't know if Google has really looked at this option, but everything I've been reading says that it may be the only way forward for companies that want to build innovative online services. The RIAA/MPAA companies are dwarfed in value by the tech companies they keep suing, and apparently Google has enough cash on hand to just start buying up enough content companies to crush the cartel.

[jarredduq]

http://www.tipb.com/2011/07/08/remot...Pad%2C+iPod%29

Interesting, not a full replacement for a SageTV extender, but would possibly be better than an Xbox for people running WMC. I'm going to start experimenting soon.

[rhinoman]

Now that looks interesting, ability to stream to AppleTV2 , could be an extender replacement, shame they don't output 1080p, maybe when AppleTV3 comes along...

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by david1234

I don't know if Google has really looked at this option, but everything I've been reading says that it may be the only way forward for companies that want to build innovative online services. The RIAA/MPAA companies are dwarfed in value by the tech companies they keep suing, and apparently Google has enough cash on hand to just start buying up enough content companies to crush the cartel.

Except Google doesn't really want to be a content provider/creator in that context(their customers generate the content). So their buying up RIAA/MPAA companies would go against their business model. Unless the model in that case was to buy them long enough to break the cartel and then release them again. Remember, Google is an advertising company first, a tech company second.

The best way to achieve their first goal is to be gateway to the content people are pursuing(which is how their potentially getting involved in the home DVR market in GoogleTV c/o the SageTV acquisition makes sense). The more content Google can become the gateway for, the better for them.

Being the gateway for content is not the same as being the content creator.

One thing that Google could potentially start doing is buying up Cable and/or (land-line)Phone companies to start in on that aspect of being a ISP/Television service provider themselves. Although that still remains something of a stretch for Google's main focus right now, unless/until net neutrality becomes a thing of the past, at which point it becomes a preservation issue for them.

Also the fact that it makes more sense for Google to look at service providers, means that Google would want to stay clear of the content creators unless the content creators become "too hostile"(at which point hostile takeovers might happen). Google is already starting to get anti-trust attention in the US, owning everything from content creation to the means of content delivery as well as the equipment tied to the means of viewing it is just begging for some anti-trust level trust busting to start happening.

The other reason Google would likely prefer to stay away from buying content creators is they then become competition for the other content providers. Making Google a potentially less than desirable choice as a content gateway for those other (competitor) companies--which defeats Google's primary mission.

The best game that Google can play is stay on the software side with only slight ventures into the hardware end, like they're doing for Android. Make their service so appealing that third party manufacturers(and the service providers) then adopt their platform, and then allow those third parties to do the "dirty work" where the content providers are concerned.

For example: Google managing to get Sony on board with a GoogleTV offering could have some repercussions across the media spectrum. (Sony owns Columbia Pictures. On the music side, they own Sony Music Entertainment which is #2 of "the big 4" music companies. Sony also holds an additional 20% share of MGM, where Comcast is holding another 20% of the company so wooing Comcast with some GoogleTV features is something Google may consider doing as well--besides the fact that getting CableCo's on board with their product offering helps GoogleTV get into more of the market.) It also doesn't hurt that Sony is also one the Three Console Gaming companies out there, and a PlayStation variant with GoogleTV would have some appeal for Google and possibly Sony as well(after their recent embarrassment).

[david1234]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

Except Google doesn't really want to be a content provider/creator in that context(their customers generate the content). So their buying up RIAA/MPAA companies would go against their business model. Unless the model in that case was to buy them long enough to break the cartel and then release them again. Remember, Google is an advertising company first, a tech company second.

I agree completely- Google is interested in aggregating content and selling ads. The point of the article I was reading (I need to find the link again), was that it would be easier (and cheaper) for Google to buy the companies than to negotiate licenses for royalties. Apparently, they decided to forgo licences for their cloud music service after they found it impossible to work with the labels. If I remember right, Warner Music is very difficult to work with.

I would expect that if they decided to start buying Labels, they would simple replace the Management and immediately spin off the companies.