Sage and other TV viewing concepts: Netflix price hike

[sandor]

Originally Posted by stanger89

...What I think did change (and I don't know their plans that well) is they've eliminated the $9.99/mo 1 at a time, unlimited DVD, unlimited Streaming plan. If you were on that, now you're going to have to pay $16/mo.

correct.

they raised my plan by 60%. streaming + 1 DVD is perfect for me, but not for > $15 a month. That is where i start to think about getting HBO, etc...

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by valnar

Maybe I'm too mainstream, but what is available on streaming that is not available in a disc format?

That was his point. I think...

[sandor]

Originally Posted by valnar

Maybe I'm too mainstream, but what is available on streaming that is not available in a disc format?

i think the point isnt "available on disc" but rather "available at red box or Prime"

i just checked three - my in laws have been watching wings, news radio and monk. none are available via red box, and news radio and monk are pay-per-episode from Prime.

Netflix streaming does have a lot of old shows/movies that just aren't in other collections (yet?)

[ThePaladinTech]

Originally Posted by valnar

Maybe I'm too mainstream, but what is available on streaming that is not available in a disc format?

From my netflix streaming experience I have the opposite question - is there anything worth watching that is available via streaming? seemed like pretty old and / or obscure stuff that was streamed when I last checked.

I like others have no problem going to my local Family Video, Red Box, or whatever as opposed to netflix streaming.

On the other hand I agree with the person who posted that they are probably hoping to shift it all to streaming...

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

how is the stock price relevant? If the company was worth $17 a year ago, and is worth $290 today, I find it hard to imagine that content providers have raised their licensing fees by a multiple of 17. This is a cash grab, and from the people who made them who they were: their subscribers. LMAO

There is no direct connection between stock price, what the content providers charge for licenses, and NexFlix fees. Stock price is simply an indication of what investors are willing to pay because:
a - They think they can sell the stock at a higher price in the future or
b - They think the dividend flow is worth it.

Since Netflix has no dividend choice b is irrelevant.

Just because their stock price is 17 times higher does not mean the company is 17 times richer and therefor gouging customers just to further bolster it's coffers. The only material advantage of having a high stock price is that you can purchase other companies using your stock instead of cash.

Forget about the stock price, it's irrelevant to their fee structure.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by ThePaladinTech

From my netflix streaming experience I have the opposite question - is there anything worth watching that is available via streaming? seemed like pretty old and / or obscure stuff that was streamed when I last checked.

I like others have no problem going to my local Family Video, Red Box, or whatever as opposed to netflix streaming.

On the other hand I agree with the person who posted that they are probably hoping to shift it all to streaming...

What's funny is the random obscure things are what I like about the streaming side of netflix. It's fun to find random movies and say "I wonder what this is?" I've found some pretty good stuff I never would have found otherwise.

[valerio]

I am another user that was never happy with Netflix.

I tried Netflix a few times, early on when they started and a couple of times recently using their offers and realistically they always made me cancel.
The reason is that I could never get New Releases mailed, it got to a point where to get any new release it would take months. Friends of mine that watch only independent movies or foreign movies are on the other hand ecstatic with Netflix mailing speed.

I have been with Blockbuster By Mail for years and I get the New Releases the next day from release, not matter what, and I can exchange the return DVD at the local store immediately.

I never tried Netflix streaming but honestly since I only watch Blu-Ray DVDs I would assume the streamed quality would not even come close to Blu-Ray so I never contemplated it.

[benjamintm]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

I might be minority, but I was and am extremely happy with Netflix. I am paying currently about $15 a month. For that I get about 16 DVDs a month and unlimited streaming.

And now you will be paying $20+ a month for the exact same thing. They didn't add any value to your subscription, they just upped the price.

Ben

[pjpjpjpj]

bastafidli,
I just noticed your signature. I'm curious (not being confrontational, honestly curious) what your plans are, since you've quit Sage, but you're still here on the forum. Are you going to hang onto the stuff and see what happens (and maybe hook back up on the off chance that Sage is still relevant within Google)? Or do you just love us too much to stop hanging around here and you leave your signature up to show people that you once were a user?

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

bastafidli,
I just noticed your signature. I'm curious (not being confrontational, honestly curious) what your plans are, since you've quit Sage, but you're still here on the forum. Are you going to hang onto the stuff and see what happens (and maybe hook back up on the off chance that Sage is still relevant within Google)? Or do you just love us too much to stop hanging around here and you leave your signature up to show people that you once were a user?

I haven't quit yet. Part of what attracted me to Sage on top of good solution was the community. I am learning a lot especially now when all is in flux.

I have just moved to a new house and have not had chance to hook everything up. On top of it, my system drive in my server got corrupted and I had to reinstall it. I am taking this opportunity to look around and search for alternatives to Sage.

I was living with SD so I got HDTV with Neflix/Hulu/... for the first time. We have also added iPad and had tons of prerecorded TV and DVDs for kids. All this make the life without Sage so much easier. Honestly we have not been missing it almost at all. At this time I am playing with several DNLA servers to server my content directly to TV, no extender needed. The Samsung TV capabilities and quality is really sweet. Everybody is bitching about quality of Netflix streaming but honestly, coming from SD even what I am getting is so much better and the picture is 4 times bigger :-).

I am also investigating how to get a TV in case it will ever come up. OTA is extremely limited here and cable is not yet available so dish is currently the only option. We have just returned our receiver and will try to go without it. More than live TV what I am most interested in is getting foreign TV programs freely available online.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by valnar

Maybe I'm too mainstream, but what is available on streaming that is not available in a disc format?

To put a name on it, anime. But it's not that it's not available on a disk format, it's that it's not available for rental on disc. I almost dropped Netflix (or significantly reduced my subscription) a while back because it became clear that Netflix was not getting new releases, and not replacing old discs. Well they later "redeemed" themselves by getting a large amount of it available through streaming.

Nobody else rents this stuff other than specialty services that are more expensive than Netflix and far, far slower because you have to mail all the way across the country, so instead of 2 day disc turn around or instant streaming, you're talking like a week turn around time.

I assume other TV type stuff is the same way. So other than Netflix, my choices are, stop watching, spend a lot more to rent it somewhere else, or buy it all.

Yeah, there's no way I'd use Netflix instant streaming for big Hollywood movies that come out on Blu-ray.

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by benjamintm

And now you will be paying $20+ a month for the exact same thing. They didn't add any value to your subscription, they just upped the price.

Ben

Honestly, I was waiting for this to happen. What I am getting is too cheap for the price. They provide me a good value for a reasonable price. The difference is less than a cup of Starbucks. Also Netflix was the only company which voluntarily decreased their price few years ago (even if it was just a $1) without ever asking for it. I obviously not want to pay more just to give away money, but currently they are still the cheapest option for what I am getting.

[SWKerr]

I have been a one at a time Netflix user since before they had online streaming and aside from an up charge for BluRays I don't recall the price going up to support streaming. This announcement is really just them charging me for something I have been getting for free. As the amount of content has increased I assumed sooner or later the cost would go up. I am just glad I get a choice to opt out of the online streaming and still get DVDs at a reasonable price.

The question here is the value of the online streaming. I think the BluRay rental price is still a good deal on its own. I seldom watch moves online with Netflix because I would rather have the high quality experience of the BluRay for new releases and I can get at least 8 a month. That pace seems to fit well with my time to watch movies. I tend to watch more TV series mainly because with SageTV I have such a good selection of quality TV to watch. What I seem to use Netflix online for is the odd TV show that was on HBO or Showtime that I never saw. Sometimes it may be something I just missed the first time around and I want to catch up. Fact is I really don't use it much. As it is approaching the cost of something like HBO on its own I have to question the value. Really the same with Hulu Plus. Is the content worth the cost. When it was free it was great but now I really have to consider the value of what is there.

I will probably keep it for awhile to see if the content gets better but for now I would have to say it is not worth it but that is mainly because of the big back long of decent un-watched TV I have on my SageTV server. If they add more of the specialty shows from HBO and Showtime or their own content maybe it will be worth it.

[IVB]

i'm pleased by this, it just cut my cost from $17.99->$14.99. I've been vastly underimpressed by their WatchNow, I've watched <1 show/month after my initial burst of excitement. Plus I have AmazonPrime, if I'm jonesing to watch something I could hunt&peck there.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

There is no direct connection between stock price, what the content providers charge for licenses, and NexFlix fees. Stock price is simply an indication of what investors are willing to pay because:
a - They think they can sell the stock at a higher price in the future or
b - They think the dividend flow is worth it.

Since Netflix has no dividend choice b is irrelevant.

Just because their stock price is 17 times higher does not mean the company is 17 times richer and therefor gouging customers just to further bolster it's coffers. The only material advantage of having a high stock price is that you can purchase other companies using your stock instead of cash.

Forget about the stock price, it's irrelevant to their fee structure.

P/E ratio? Netflix needs to show investors that there IS growth beyond what is the current norm, especially since the stock has skyrocketed in such a short time. There are only two ways to do this that I know of at the moment: add more subscribers, and show more profit. The latter is usually done via increases. Also, Netflix now needs to begin squashing competition, which investors also enjoy. It's likely they'll be on a buying spree because of their market cap. Once again - raise rates to raise capital. So, while there may be no direct way to say stock price is irrelevant to the fee structure, there are lots of reasons why changing the fee structure will bolster the current surge in valuation.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

P/E ratio? Netflix needs to show investors that there IS growth beyond what is the current norm, especially since the stock has skyrocketed in such a short time. There are only two ways to do this that I know of at the moment: add more subscribers, and show more profit. The latter is usually done via increases. Also, Netflix now needs to begin squashing competition, which investors also enjoy. It's likely they'll be on a buying spree because of their market cap. Once again - raise rates to raise capital. So, while there may be no direct way to say stock price is irrelevant to the fee structure, there are lots of reasons why changing the fee structure will bolster the current surge in valuation.

All agreed. Being "in the business" it just irks me how people totally misunderstand how capital markets work.

OT - Remember back in the 90's there was some action movie where the bad guy was holding the good guy hostge and as ransom was demanding stock options? At first I almost peed myself laughing, and then I cried when i thought about it some more.

[ivseenbetter]

I think there are TONS of value in the Netflix streaming. In fact, I would almost get rid of the mailed disk portion of the subscription before I got rid of the streaming. They have a lot of kids material on streaming…especially Nick Jr stuff. I don’t want to waste my time renting disks of kiddie cartoons and Netflix is the answer (even more so for little kids as they like to watch the same thing over and over and over…and I am NOT about to go out and buy/rent the same disk for kids cartoons). Throw in the fact that I would rather stream episodes of TV shows than have to go rent the discs for that season (which by the way you might not be able to get your hands on all the discs at once if the season is stretched over 3 or 4 disks) and you have Netflix being a great value for any parent who has to balance kid shows with TV shows. But the value doesn’t stop there….Chick flicks. I don’t care to waste money on Bluray versions of Chick Flicks for my wife. She doesn’t care about Bluray quality and just wants to enjoy the lovey-dovey story line…they have a lot of chick flicks on streaming. So yes, Netflix is still the best deal going (streaming covers 2/3 of my family…and I will admit to finding content on there I have enjoyed as well). I will gladly pay $16 a month for easy access to all of this content and supplement the really great movies that take full advantage of Bluray with the mailing service. All-in-all, you still can’t beat that value…and I think most of you will find yourselves coming back to Netflix after you have been gone for a few months and realize there that Netflix truly was a bargain even at $16 a month (come on…everybody tries to classify it as a 60% cost increase….but it’s only %60 because it was soooo cheap to begin with. Heck, my cable company just raised prices for their subscribers by $20 a month and they didn’t even bother to offer ANY new functionality with the increase…but I guess since it was only a 15% increase it isn’t so bad…based on Netflix bashing logic).

I’ll take it a step further and tie it into Sage. We all have Sage functionality that works great right now. Use the Playon plugin and tie that into Amazon (free or whatever you are willing to spend per episode), Netflix ($16 a month and you still get to watch Bluray movies for those movies you really want to see in quality versions), and Hulu + ($10). Now you have a single interface that accesses almost everything you watch on cable and it only costs you $26 + whatever you may spend on Amazon. Compare this to a $100 cable bill and I can’t justify NOT staying with Netflix and just cutting the cable instead. They would have to raise it a LOT more than they have to get me to think otherwise. Oh, and you won't need to worry about the DVR function of Sage anymore because you just stream what you want when you want anyway.

[svemuri]

One thing that I really like about streaming is that I can just "try" a movie. There are a ton of Indie movies that I wouldn't normally add to my queue. But on streaming, you can just start watching it and in 10-20min, I can dump it and go to something else if I don't like it.

[benjamintm]

Originally Posted by bastafidli

Honestly, I was waiting for this to happen. What I am getting is too cheap for the price. They provide me a good value for a reasonable price. The difference is less than a cup of Starbucks. Also Netflix was the only company which voluntarily decreased their price few years ago (even if it was just a $1) without ever asking for it. I obviously not want to pay more just to give away money, but currently they are still the cheapest option for what I am getting.

For me, Netflix has done the equivalent to what people complain about with cable companies, raised prices without offering additional value. The analogy I use is this: YOur with cable company X. You pay $100/month for a set of both HD and SD channels. They come back after a year or 5 and say, we're going to offer you a new deal. You can have all the HD channels for $75 or all of the SD channels for $75. You can get both for $150. Now some of the channels have HD equivalents, but some are SD only. So now you have a choice. So now you have a choice. You can pay less over all for fewer channels or you can pay more for the exact same number of channels you had just the day before. And the "less over all" part isn't really less because you are paying more per-channel.

Netflix has done that. They've said you can have our entire collection of movies for $8.99 (with the blu-ray option) one at a time or you can have a subset of those movies for $7.99 and have unlimited streaming. It seems cheaper, but "per movie" it costs more.

Ben

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by benjamintm

For me, Netflix has done the equivalent to what people complain about with cable companies, raised prices without offering additional value.

The way I look at it was Netflix was charging me $15 when there was no streaming. Then they added 15 hours of streaming without raising price. Then they added unlimited streaming without raising price. I understood that it was because the market was new and nobody was in their right mind was going to pay for it. Now that market has cought up, Netflix has started charging for it. That is the same as all the other Internet and Media companies are doing, ESJ, Hulu, ...