What I must have in SageTV replacement

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Some of these read, to me at least, a lot more like wish lists than bare-minimum-to-consider lists.

Well, the question was what would you need to LEAVE sagetv. So, if you've already got everything you list as needs, just stay with what you've got.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Well, the question was what would you need to LEAVE sagetv. So, if you've already got everything you list as needs, just stay with what you've got.

No, it was what "... would have to show up on GTV for you to, even in a million years, consider buying it." It wasn't even what features would need to be present to buy a GTV- it was just what would be needed for you to consider it.

At some point, in the not too terribly distant future, a large percentage of the current Sage users will either be forced to move on, or will decide future investments in an unsupported product aren't wise. Extenders will die, and without client licenses for sale, PC-based systems aren't even an option if someone were interested (but, extenders seem important to a lot of people). Tuner support isn't being updated, which at some point will be a big deal. And who knows if some future update to Windows will break compatibility with Sage.

You're in a bit of a different situation than many Sage users, since you don't seem to be as tied to extenders as others are.

I agree different responses make sense if the question was what would features would be needed to drop Sage today. But that wasn't the original question. I think the intent was to assume that at some point you'd be forced to change- maybe not terribly soon, but at some point- and to identify what features would be deal-breakers if they weren't implemented.

In my opinion, some of the stuff mentioned in this thread are pretty pie-in-the-sky. Anyone expecting a mass-market device with automatic comskip and no DRM is going to be sorely disappointed, and I think they're going to have an awfully hard time finding a suitable replacement when they need to replace their Sage system.

[ThePaladinTech]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Well, the question was what would you need to LEAVE sagetv. So, if you've already got everything you list as needs, just stay with what you've got.

Originally Posted by reggie14

No, it was what "... would have to show up on GTV for you to, even in a million years, consider buying it." It wasn't even what features would need to be present to buy a GTV- it was just what would be needed for you to consider it.

At some point, in the not too terribly distant future, a large percentage of the current Sage users will either be forced to move on, or will decide future investments in an unsupported product aren't wise. Extenders will die, and without client licenses for sale, PC-based systems aren't even an option if someone were interested (but, extenders seem important to a lot of people). Tuner support isn't being updated, which at some point will be a big deal. And who knows if some future update to Windows will break compatibility with Sage.

You're in a bit of a different situation than many Sage users, since you don't seem to be as tied to extenders as others are.

I agree different responses make sense if the question was what would features would be needed to drop Sage today. But that wasn't the original question. I think the intent was to assume that at some point you'd be forced to change- maybe not terribly soon, but at some point- and to identify what features would be deal-breakers if they weren't implemented.

In my opinion, some of the stuff mentioned in this thread are pretty pie-in-the-sky. Anyone expecting a mass-market device with automatic comskip and no DRM is going to be sorely disappointed, and I think they're going to have an awfully hard time finding a suitable replacement when they need to replace their Sage system.

I must admit I am looking at it more in a "What would it take to leave sagetv" - I loved the idea that Mrs.GeekTonic presented but thought "why not make this useful for the nextpvr guy, xmbc people, etc?"

I don't think automatic comskip is pie in the sky at all - Comskip is available in Microsofts media center. I didn't state that it needed to be bundled in, nor be provided by the software, just that it was possible to have someone do it. The product *will* need the underpinings to make that possible. So IMHO it's a valid item to list.

I, to a point, hear you about the DRM. But I am also hoping that someone big can bring sensibility to this, and google is big. When the new fangled xerox machine became available the book makers were up in arms about their copyright material ... they got over it and guess what? people are still buying books. it took Apple to get music without DRM. So I really believe at some point DRM will go away.

Edit: and I think I am one that is more in Fuzzys shoes. Thankfully I personally own three servers (they can be made to run as a client), one client license, and If memory serves 4 placeshifter codes.

[svemuri]

To me, it would be great if I can just get SageTV + DRM support (or muscle out DRM) :-). Of course, Sage already supports wide range of tuners/capture cards.

Wishlist is
1. A "Client" app that runs on more than one STBs out there (Roku, WDLive, PS3, Xbox, etc etc). If GoogleTV is just a reference platform that can be adopted by multiple Tawaneese shops (ASUS etc), that would work as well.
2. Better parental controls / user profiles

Sarat.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by reggie14

No, it was what "... would have to show up on GTV for you to, even in a million years, consider buying it." It wasn't even what features would need to be present to buy a GTV- it was just what would be needed for you to consider it.

At some point, in the not too terribly distant future, a large percentage of the current Sage users will either be forced to move on, or will decide future investments in an unsupported product aren't wise. Extenders will die, and without client licenses for sale, PC-based systems aren't even an option if someone were interested (but, extenders seem important to a lot of people). Tuner support isn't being updated, which at some point will be a big deal. And who knows if some future update to Windows will break compatibility with Sage.

You're in a bit of a different situation than many Sage users, since you don't seem to be as tied to extenders as others are.

I agree different responses make sense if the question was what would features would be needed to drop Sage today. But that wasn't the original question. I think the intent was to assume that at some point you'd be forced to change- maybe not terribly soon, but at some point- and to identify what features would be deal-breakers if they weren't implemented.

In my opinion, some of the stuff mentioned in this thread are pretty pie-in-the-sky. Anyone expecting a mass-market device with automatic comskip and no DRM is going to be sorely disappointed, and I think they're going to have an awfully hard time finding a suitable replacement when they need to replace their Sage system.

I DO technically have more extenders than clients (1 MVP, 1 HD300, 1 ClientPC).. but that's not the point. I am NOT one who believes that client licenses are unavailable, as in this day and age, NOTHING is really unavailable. Sever licenses will also always be unavailable. Yes, SageTV, LLC is dead... That's not saying someone couldn't set up, even a completely new system at this point. I'm not sure you'll get people jumping INTO sage at this point, but I for one have no interest going anywhere else, but I also KNOW that if the time comes that I need to expand my system, that is fully within the realm of possibility.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by ThePaladinTech

I don't think automatic comskip is pie in the sky at all - Comskip is available in Microsofts media center. I didn't state that it needed to be bundled in, nor be provided by the software, just that it was possible to have someone do it. The product *will* need the underpinings to make that possible. So IMHO it's a valid item to list.

I know what you're saying. For a PC-based system I think that's reasonable. In that case you just need two things: access to recordings and a plugin architecture. But, I don't think its reasonable for a mass-market CE device, like a Sage server stuffed into a GTV box. I think that's a much more likely outcome of the SageTV acquisition. For something like that, you would need to make sure the GTV box has the necessary power to run comskip, that you can get a comskip app of some sort installed, and that you could get it to run in the background. Still possible, I suppose, but I kind of doubt it. I would expect a combination of a lack of raw power and security mechanisms in the OS would prevent that from working, at least without rooting the GTV.

You certainly can't expect official comskip support, but I understand most people would probably be happy with being able to install and run a version of comskip.

Originally Posted by ThePaladinTech

I, to a point, hear you about the DRM. But I am also hoping that someone big can bring sensibility to this, and google is big. When the new fangled xerox machine became available the book makers were up in arms about their copyright material ... they got over it and guess what? people are still buying books. it took Apple to get music without DRM. So I really believe at some point DRM will go away.

I doubt it. DRM is still alive and well with streaming services. DRM might go away in purchased digital media, but I don't think that's going to catch on with anything besides music (and I wouldn't be surprised if the Spotify model takes over for music). We'll either be using subscriptions or rentals. Either way, I think you need DRM for that to work, without making prices fairly ridiculous. You're certainly not buying all the Netflix movies you can download in a month for $8, so they need some way to restrict what you can do with those movies.

Cable/satellite TV is much, much closer to a streaming/rental model than a purchasing model. I've said this before in other threads, but do you really think you're buying all TV shows aired over the course of a month for $50 (or whatever your TV service costs)?

That being said, I think DRM for cable/satellite TV recordings is pretty silly. You don't have the same concern over casual piracy as you do copying CDs, since you need a lot of equipment to do it. Blatant piracy using newsgroups or bittorrent can't be stopped, in part due to things like the HD-PVR. So, I don't see what you get out of it. I do think it provides some protection against copyright infringement through casual piracy with digital downloads and streaming services. And since that's the direction we're going anyway, I don't think there will ever be sufficient pressure from anyone to get rid of DRM with cable/satellite TV.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by IVB

ability to play back ripped DVDs & BR. Without that, I may as well get the DirecTV whole house thingey.

I used to want this, but now I rip all my DVDs in three steps:

1. Rip entire DVD to disc
2. Load the ripped version, and then rip main movie and as many extras as desired - also to DVD format, but one title per set of DVD folders
3. Use VideoRedoSuite to convert each DVD folder to it's own .MPG file. If it's a foreign-language DVD, I use HandBrake instead of VideoRedo and burn the subtitles into a .M4V file what seems to share .MPG's portability.
4. Just for CYA, copy the ripped entire DVD to an "Original Rips" directory on my NAS box.... tb deleted as space requirements dictate, but there in case I want to burn a DVD easily.

Sounds like a lot more work, but in reality it only takes a few minutes bc most of the time is PC time with no user interaction.

I started doing this when I found out that DVD format does not render to a remote HD200.

Side benefits I have found are:

• In the process, you lose all the stern warnings, advertisements, and trailers
  .
• When you rip additional .MPGs for the extras, it becomes more convenient at playback time: the DVD menu hierarchy has been replaced by a SageTV folder and the subfiles within

I like it enough that I re-ripped my entire DVD collection. Takes longer to rip, but it's only a few minutes.

[TwistedMelon]

You can accomplish every single one of those steps at one time using just Handbrake. No need for other tools. The caveat is that you'll need to transcode the video every time and you'll need VLC installed for the included CSS decryption.

Or use MakeMKV which doesn't transcode the video from the source DVD but can also grab whatever you select from the disc.

Incidentally, MPEG-2 (what DVDs are authored in) is the opposite of a portable format.

[PeteCress]

Originally Posted by TwistedMelon

You can accomplish every single one of those steps at one time using just Handbrake. No need for other tools. The caveat is that you'll need to transcode the video every time and you'll need VLC installed for the included CSS decryption.

I have stayed away from HandBrake except for burning in subtitles bco the very long run times.

I decrypt using something called DvdAnywhere - which acts sort of like a driver for the DVD drive in that whatever I put into the drive appears to whatever application I point at the drive as being decrypted. Times are usually less than 10 minutes clock and less than a minute in man-hours.

I used to use DvdShrink exclusively, but after running in to a few that it could not handle and buying DvdAnywhere, I drifted over to DvdAnywhere plus something called CloneDVD2 from the same publisher. Strangely enough, that pair cannot handle the occasional DVD while DvdShrink can. Go figure...

[Taddeusz]

I use Handbrake to convert my DVD's. Even though it reduces the quality of the video I've found that transcoding my DVD's generally smooths out any quality variations of the MPEG2 on DVD's.

What I mean by that is there is actually a fairly wide variation in the use of film flags in the video. There can even be issues within a single DVD where flags could be missing.

I have only an HD100 and HD200. Those decoders depend only on flagging to reverse telecine video. The result of this is some improperly flagged DVD's will be de-interlaced rather than reverse telecined.

Handbrake is smarter at pulling out progressive film frames rather than relying only on flagging like my HD100 & HD200. This means that I have a known consistent quality of video from DVD to DVD.

[ThePaladinTech]

So I thought I'd revist this post, almost five years later my wish list has mostly been answered, and mostly by SageTV (still! )

SageTV Open Source:
Client Server
ComSkip
The DVR Part
Multi-room viewing
Non-Drm Recordings
The ability to configure 99% of all options from the remote user interface
Placeshifter
Fan-Art (Gemstone)
IMDB Search

Ability to extend system with plug-ins and modifications – and the ability for the community mentioned in my original post to be able to create them.

OpenDCT - My needs have really gone down to Silicon dust products (Primes and Connects)
Support for many 3rd party capture cards – Hauppauge, Ceton, SiliconDust, Monsoon Hava, etc.

android mini client
Extenders

Nexus Player
Ability to do Vudu, Hulu, Netflix, Podcasts etc
A better music UI (Plex, Emby)
support my ripped dvd/blu-ray collection (Plex, Emby)

The next is still true to this day, and all along this is the forum that I would come to more often than not for guidance with my Home Theater stuff:
A thriving on line community –This is something I have come to look for/ value with most technical things I get these days. without it I will not have access to like minded people, people that can help me maximize it’s use, people that learned some tricks, etc.

in the works
Ability to schedule recordings from a web page (exists but an improved version is being discussed)

I guess what I really want is SageTV … Could you just slap a google logo on it and let me have it back? *sigh*
This I was certainly correct about - Thanks "sagetv authors" for sticking at it!