Client Pricing

[JasonJoel]

Well, I already see one thing I'm not real thrilled about from the updates www.sage.tv website:

QUOTE
Client version of SageTV providing the full-screen functionality of SageTV (including the Integrated Programming Guide) on any PC across a network. Deliver streaming Live and recorded TV and Music to any PC on your network. One license required per installed PC. Also requires a licensed copy of SageTV v1.3 above.
END QUOTE

So if I want to have it installed on three machines in my house, even though only one would be using it at a time, I have to buy three copies? That doesn't seem quite fair to me.

If you have to keep the licensing on a per machine basis, I ask that you either 1.) make it cheap (no more than $9.99 per client) or 2.) Make a steeply discounted 5 license pack (again, in my opinion no more than $9.99 per license).

Jason Bottjen

[sshapiro63]

I have been buying the programs one at a time; SageTV, SageRecorder, next will be SageClient. I think they should offer some type of deal on entire the suite too.

[Jammydodger]

I've deleted my irrelevant post :-)

[mlar]

Compare to TiVo or ReplayTV where you'd have to buy a separate box for every room, it's bound to be cheaper. But I agree, some kind of floating license system would be nice for people with more computers than can be counted on both hands, but only have one set of eyes. Maybe the client license could restrict the number of simultaneous connections at the server, getting rid of the client key requirement altogether (just install more keys on the server for additional simultaneous clients).

[Jammydodger]

Or have one free client license per SageTV license :-)

[Mark Lamutt]

Let me preface my comments with this: I don't work for Frey Technologies. I help them administer this site on a volunteer basis because I've been using the software since last fall, and it's the best I've ever seen. That's why I help them out with the site. I don't get paid anything by them.

So, maybe I can add my $0.02 here from the basis of a long time user. This is standard practice in the PC world. If you want to legally use a piece of software on multiple computers, you have to purchase it multiple times. Some companies offer site licenses for some software, but I'd bet you'd be hardpressed to find a company offering a steeply discounted price for only 3 copies or 5 copies. When you start getting up into the 50 copies or 100 copies range, that's where the discounts start appearing. Most companies don't allow multiple copies under the same license even if they are used one at a time.

The price of $9.99 per client has been talked about. Do you realize that you can't even purchase a video/audio filter pack from Sonic or Intervideo for that price? They are both $15, and that's for something that isn't usable on its own - other software has to be available to use them. The SageTV client doesn't fall into this category. You are getting a fully fuctional piece of software that works together with the server and other clients to provide a complete tivo-like experience on any PC the client is installed on on the network. To get this same kind of functionality out of Tivo, it costs you a minimum of $100, plus the guide/service fees. Or with Replay, you have to have a replay box connected at every network node point.

Snapstream and Showshifter don't have this option yet, so to do the same kind of thing with them, you'll have to purchase full cost versions of the software for every network node at $50 each. And you guys have been playing with the Sage software enough by now to know how much better it is.

And finally, I'd suggest that you look back and see what you as users have gotton over the last 3 months that SageTV has been available. How many times have you asked for a feature that has shown up in the next build of the software no more than days later? How many developers open up the beta products for the general pubilc to use if they want to? How many new features have been added in 3 months? Don't you think that that level of committment and support of the product and the users of the product deserves to be compensated? And on top of all of that, the guide service is now free. That one even took me by surprise...

These are my opinions. I'll welcome discussion of my opinions if you'd like to.

[Jammydodger]

Originally posted by Mark Lamutt
The price of $9.99 per client has been talked about.

Assuming that is the cost of course!

Snapstream and Showshifter don't have this option yet

Not exactly true, for example in Snapstream, you can run it on one machine, and from anywhere (in the world), with a webbrowser you can connect to it, watch recorded programs, watch live tv, change channels etc, schedule recordings etc, as well as being able to schedule recordings at SnapStream.Net which the your PC at home will connect to and retrieve.

[JasonJoel]

I am not complaining about Frey Tech's support nor their development speed or quality. I think they are doing a fantastic job.

My only point was that for many of us that have more than one computer, having to buy separate copies for every machine is not really fair. I would be more than happy to buy two CONCURRENT USE licenses, but buying 5+ copies when I know only 1 or 2 max will be in use at once is a waste.

A few small items before I go:
1.

Originally posted by Mark Lamutt
*SNIP*
Snapstream and Showshifter don't have this option yet, so to do the same kind of thing with them, you'll have to purchase full cost versions of the software for every network node at $50 each. And you guys have been playing with the Sage software enough by now to know how much better it is.
*END SNIP*

Actually, not true. Snapstream has similar functionality (FOR FREE) in their 3.0 product which is currently in beta just like your Client software. You can argue that theirs isn't the 'same thing' all day long, but in the end it lets you steam recorded shows or live tv to clients so I think it is a fair comparison.

2. Arguing that since other software manufacturers screw us with a per machine charge you can, doesn't make it right.

3. The SageTV Client is hardly a 'stand alone' application. Realistically no one is going to buy client without using the Server side as there are much better programs to simply play video/audio locally. This is even more reason for it to be cheap.

Just my $0.02. In the end I know I'm going to buy at least one Client license, so it isn't like I'm trying to throw a fit here, just trying to express concerns.

Keep up the good work guys!

Jason

[Mark Lamutt]

$9.99 has been brought up by forum users, not by the Frey guys. Sorry for the confusion there.

And yes, Snapstream can be viewed anywhere, but you're watching a streaming version that's nowhere near the quality of the original. Whereas with SageTV and the SageTV client, you're watching the original.

[edmc]

With exciting news like this...

http://www.freytechnologies.com/foru...=3539#post3539

I cannot imagine anyone thinking SageTV is gouging anybody...

That said, the Concurrent Use (a.k.a. Floating Licence) idea sounds interesting - seems to me the Server would do the enforcing...

[JasonJoel]

Fair enough.

Although it really isn't worth discussing further, as I am not advocating Snapstream nor am I switching back to it...

But arguably 4 Mbit WMV7 video is 'almost as good quality' as 8 Mbit MPEG2 at same capture resolution. Of course, if you don't use WMV in Snapstream you are hosed as far as streaming is concerned anyway, so that is a minus for them .

So with Snapstream I CAN (and did for the last year) stream pretty darn close to the same video quality I can in SageTV Client. (but I'm still not switching back to it... Don't like 95% CPU util during recording... )

I'll let it drop now. SageTV is a great product, overall I am extremely pleased with it, and I know I will be for a long time to come.

Jason Bottjen

Originally posted by Mark Lamutt
$9.99 has been brought up by forum users, not by the Frey guys. Sorry for the confusion there.

And yes, Snapstream can be viewed anywhere, but you're watching a streaming version that's nowhere near the quality of the original. Whereas with SageTV and the SageTV client, you're watching the original.

[mlar]

I think it is interesting how people always have to defend SageTV pricing in these forums. I think any argument wether or not SageTV is worth it, is in the end, up to the consumer. If the price is set too high, noone will buy it, that is the only quality indicator that matters. I guess for all of us, SageTV is worth it, that's why we are here, isn't it? I even think the SageTV service was worth it, so Frey basically handed me 50 dollars per year or so, which I was perfectly happy paying. How much is it worth to you?

[JJarmoc]

For what it's worth, I'm in favor of the concurrent seats licensing model. While it's true that most home-user products are licensed per-copy, there certainly are many packages that are licensed per seat, especially in the area of client-server applications, which is a closer analogy to sage than something like MS Office. MS Exchange and SQL come to mind immediately, and I've heard of license-metering packages for Office, Photoshop, etc.. to help companies in managed concurrency, so it is definitely done.

At any rate, I'd probably buy a client seat or two, but I wouldn't pay for a dedicated client license. I've got a whole load of machines on my network at home, many are rebuilt, moved around, and tinkered with on a regular basis, which makes installing sage and activating it's license tedious. Aside from transferring shows to a laptop (which I can do with raw MPGs anyhow), I can't see why I'd want to watch TV on any of them except my HTPC. Of course, I also only have one TV and live alone.. If I had a couple TVs and a wife/kids who wanted to watch different shows at the same time, I'd see much more value in it I'm sure.

If I were able to pay a few bucks, and have the convenience of watching video on any device on my network, I'd go for it, even if it's rarely used. If I had to pick one device to enable that functionality on, I'd pass.

I also saw another post (from Dan I think..) that said something like 'client server functionality at under $100.' I really hope that figure includes the sage server. I'd never pay $100 for a single machine client license, and I can't imagine a lot of people would.

[mlar]

I have to agree on the licensing structure. Even if it might not be that common in the PC world (only ClearCase and Windows Server comes to mind right now), it is very common on Unix platforms, for example, SUN has a license server that is based on concurrent use. Ever tried to run the C compiler on a Solaris system, just to be placed in queue for a license? Before Microsoft, licenses were mostly issued for concurrent use, not per machine. Then Microsoft came along and decided you could only install the software on one machine, then when you upgrade the CPU in that box, it's a different machine, and you have to buy a new copy of the software.

[Mark Lamutt]

I guess the pricing isn't completely worked out for the client version, but I have serious doubts if it's going to be around $100. My guess (and this is ONLY a guess) is that it will be somewhat cheaper than the standalone (server) version of SageTV, as well it should be. But I also wouldn't count on it being $10 either.

Really, I'm not trying to argue with you guys. If the price is reasonable, you'll buy it. If it's not, you won't. Like I said, I don't work for Frey, so I have no say in what they decide to do. I'm here as a long time user who is volunteering time to help them out with the site.

[JJarmoc]

Mark -
I understand where you're coming from, and don't see your comments as an argument. I certainly agree than $10 is probably too cheap, especially given that it's a one time fee with free upgrades. For me, SageClient is something I can live with or without, the pricing will probably end up being the determining factor in which road I take. We'll just have to wait and see... I just figured some feedback on my thoughts might be useful, as I imagine the Frey guys will be reading this thread.

[Mark Lamutt]

Oh, they're reading...I do know that one for certain.

[Markus]

Hey guys, the software costs around 60 bucks, they just stopped charging us for the service (I of course would rather not have to pay for it, but admit it, it was worth it).

Have faith, I'm sure it'll be reasonable and affordable, and if it is I'll be in line to buy it.

Mark (the other one)

[Narflex]

Just a couple things...

I'm really appreciative of the support many of you give, but anyone of you who feels they're getting 'screwed' by us should think about things from our perspective. I've sacrficed the last 2 years of my life (more than you could imagine) to give you this software and am now trying to do everything I can to make it the best it possibly can and build a business around it. We charge what we feel is fair and gives us adequate compensation for the work performed. And as you all know, we all do extensive amounts of work over here AND provide outstanding customer support.

Regarding floating licenses, this is almost always for software products that are in the >$500 license range. Things like Rational, Matlab, AutoCAD, etc. This is done for corporate software where they're saving thousands or even millions of dollars in licensing fees by balancing highly expensive software across employees.

Oh yeah, and didn't we just drop the fee for guide service? (as some of you mentioned, thanks)

That's my 2 cents at 2 o'clock in the morning.

[Crazedz]

I could be wrong and this is just a guess but from the around $100 dollars that i saw it sounds like it's going to be a flat one time price for the server/client not a per machine price that some of you are thinking.

Though as i said thats just a guess but it sounds like a more reasonable way of doing it unless you want to set it up in a buisness type setup like a hotel chain or a buisness like setup (can't imagine why but some may want to do something like that)something like that. I would imagine that Jeff would want more for something like that. But for personal use where it would be only installed on a limited number of machines i think a flat price could work well and not be goudging as some seem to think fry's may try to do.

However they decide to do it as Jeff and others have said im sure they will continue to be fair about it as they have been in the past.

Just my .05 worth (taking into account for inflation).