HD200 Audio Issue

[KryptoNyte]

I'm aware that the HD200 can't decode DTS audio, but can pass it to another device.

I just purchased a Sharp Flat Panel Television. As most folks do in their home theaters, they take the audio out of the HD200 via Optical fiber into their receiver, and connect the TV to the HD200 with the HDMI cable for video. I found that the televisions post-processing effects, which I kind of enjoy, create a lag for the video, so the audio going from HD200 directly to the receiver is ahead of the video.

I was happy to find that the television has an optical output jack. So the connections as they stand today;

- HD200 to television - HDMI cable only (passing both video and audio)
- HD200 audio output setting to HDMI (bitstream)
- Television Optical output connected to amplifier
- The amplifier indicates that it is receiving only PCM audio

I first checked the television manual, which claims that it can in fact pass bitstream audio via the optical connection, so this leaves me with one question -

Is the HD200 capable of passing DTS audio if it is only connected to equipment via the HDMI (no optical connection out of the HD200)?

(EDIT: Note, this is good old standard DTS audio, not DTS-HD)

[KryptoNyte]

If there is anyone that could verify that the HD200 can pass the DTS or AC3 audio to another device for processing, via ONLY the HDMI cable, I would sure appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

If there is anyone that could verify that the HD200 can pass the DTS or AC3 audio to another device for processing, via ONLY the HDMI cable, I would sure appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

I did spend a bit of time on your issue as I recall it used to work in the past, but it doesn't anymore with the latest firmware, so what your're experiencing is apparently a bug on the HD200 or I'm missing something.

However, I managed to get it working by pressing the "Video Out" button on the remote control to switch video interface until back to HDMI, that procedure resets the HDMI chip/transmitter and I finally got back the AC3 and DTS on the HDMI only.

I then hard power cycled the HD200 and this time the setting was kept correctly without the need to press the "Video Out" button.

I also noticed that the AC3 was in reality a downmixed 2 channels PCM, so it looks like that by changing the audio setting from HDMI PCM to HDMI Bitstream you need to do the "Video Out" trick at least once as well...

Give it a try and let me know...

Eddy

[KryptoNyte]

Eddy, I appreciate the information, but I finally came to the conclusion that this television simply isn't capable of passing Digital Audio via an HDMI input. So even if the HD200 could pull this off, it wouldn't work in this scenario.

Are there an audiophiles reading this that might have a recommendation on a new amplifier that works well with the HD200 HDMI only input?

[Taddeusz]

I'm a bit confused about what you're saying. There should be a setting in the TV that changes the way it deals with the audio going out its optical output. Either it can decode the audio and output PCM stereo or it can just pass it through without modification.

With my TV I am doing this just fine. I had a problem with mine, though, in that it will pass Dolby Digital audio just fine but ignores DTS and so I end up with no audio. As a result I ended up having to run the optical cable separately to my receiver to bypass that issue.

So, look for a setting in your TV that controls what it is outputting through the optical output. That should be set to bitstreamed or some such. It should not be PCM.

[Taddeusz]

Related question, does your receiver have HDMI inputs?

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

Eddy, I appreciate the information, but I finally came to the conclusion that this television simply isn't capable of passing Digital Audio via an HDMI input. So even if the HD200 could pull this off, it wouldn't work in this scenario.

Can you please let us know your new TV model number? Even my 5 years old crappy TV can decode at least AC3 Bitstream and cannot believe yours can't...

If you haven't followed my procedure after switching the audio of your HD200 from PCM to HDMI, then the HD200 will always down-mix any DTS stream to PCM stereo on the HDMI output (S/PDIF always works), I can reproduce your issue all the time.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by routerunner

If you haven't followed my procedure after switching the audio of your HD200 from PCM to HDMI, then the HD200 will always down-mix any DTS stream to PCM stereo on the HDMI output (S/PDIF always works), I can reproduce your issue all the time.

The HD200 can't decode DTS. Only the HD300 can do that. DTS must be bitstreamed for playback.

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

The HD200 can't decode DTS. Only the HD300 can do that. DTS must be bitstreamed for playback.

Sorry, I need to rephrase...I know that the HD200 officially doesn't down-mix to PCM from DTS, but what my AVR reports during the "faulty" mode is a two channels PCM format with almost zero audio level.

[KryptoNyte]

I think it would be easiest if I just point you to the other forum conversation at this point. Just to clarify, I own the ....640U set, not the 6400U.

Starting on post #235;

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399227/of...u-xxc6400u/210

[KryptoNyte]

I can add one more thing that I didn't mention in the other forum; I put a usb drive into the back of the television and played an MKV file with both AC3 and DTS audio, and the TV was able to pass the Digital Audio out the Optical output and into the receiver (the receiver confirmed this on it's display, plus you can tell a huge difference).

If I play the same MKV file over the network through the HD200 HDMI out only into the TV, TV optical out into the receiver, there is only PCM audio, which seems to agree with the manual.

It really is a terribly unfortunate downfall for a beautiful television.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Related question, does your receiver have HDMI inputs?

It does not (Yamaha HTR-5730). It was one of the first "complete 5.1 audio systems in a box." At the time, the HDMI capable receivers were just emerging and were nearly three times the cost as I recall. I'm not much of an audiophile, so I can't really tell much difference in audio quality between the $300 receivers and the $1500 receivers.

Going back to the original problem, the video delay due to TV processing (I assume) is quite bad. As I understand it, with a new receiver, I would take HDMI only out of the HD200 into (1) of the receivers HDMI inputs, and then HDMI out of the receiver into the television. A simple solution, but I just can't see how this would eliminate the delayed video, unless the receiver had some capability to sync audio, and do so on-the-fly.

Would something like this work?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+9...&skuId=2023402

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

It does not (Yamaha HTR-5730). It was one of the first "complete 5.1 audio systems in a box." At the time, the HDMI capable receivers were just emerging and were nearly three times the cost as I recall. I'm not much of an audiophile, so I can't really tell much difference in audio quality between the $300 receivers and the $1500 receivers.

Going back to the original problem, the video delay due to TV processing (I assume) is quite bad. As I understand it, with a new receiver, I would take HDMI only out of the HD200 into (1) of the receivers HDMI inputs, and then HDMI out of the receiver into the television. A simple solution, but I just can't see how this would eliminate the delayed video, unless the receiver had some capability to sync audio, and do so on-the-fly.

Would something like this work?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+9...&skuId=2023402

I did test your issue with a Yamaha YSP-4100 soundbar having the HD200 connected to the soundbar via HDMI and the soundbar connected to a projector via the soundbar HDMI output (sorta what you want to do) and the lip sync is automatically handled by the Soundbar/Projector combo via HDMI-CEC messages, so as long as your TV supports CEC you should be fine.

EDIT: I recall I was actually surprised on how well HDMI-CEC works at the time I installed the soundbar with the projector. My projector takes up to three full frames (depending on the settings) to process the image and the soundbar was automatically adjusting the lip sync to it.

[KryptoNyte]

Thanks, RR. I think I'll go ahead and pick up that cheaper Sony receiver. It indicates in the manual that the TV HDMI port is ARC (Audio Return Channel) compatible, and so is the television's HDMI port 1. It also appears that the Sony receiver does have a (fairly generic) setting to sync audio/video with an audio delay feature, so if the ARC connection doesn't do the trick, there is another option.

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

Thanks, RR. I think I'll go ahead and pick up that cheaper Sony receiver. It indicates in the manual that the TV HDMI port is ARC (Audio Return Channel) compatible, and so is the television's HDMI port 1. It also appears that the Sony receiver does have a (fairly generic) setting to sync audio/video with an audio delay feature, so if the ARC connection doesn't do the trick, there is another option.

No problem. It is a shame that your new TV doesn't support bitstream decoding, however if you think it does perfectly make sense...a TV is designed to take care of the video part and a AVR to the audio part and both must do thier job well, it doesn't make any sense for a TV to process an audio signal that cannot deliver with just a couple of speakers

Remember the "Video Out" trick to enable the HD200 to pass through the DTS once you've got your new receiver.

[KryptoNyte]

Actually, I think I'll probably opt for this receiver instead;

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Yamaha+-...373 &cp=1&lp=1

I just nabbed a used HD300 on ebay for under 200 bucks, so if I can't get the HD200 to do the job with the trick you mention, I'll see if the HD300 can handle it perhaps. It didn't come with a remote, but I do have an extra remote from one HD200, which I understand is the same for either unit.

Thanks again, RR.

[routerunner]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

Actually, I think I'll probably opt for this receiver instead;

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Yamaha+-...373 &cp=1&lp=1

I just nabbed a used HD300 on ebay for under 200 bucks, so if I can't get the HD200 to do the job with the trick you mention, I'll see if the HD300 can handle it perhaps. It didn't come with a remote, but I do have an extra remote from one HD200, which I understand is the same for either unit.

Thanks again, RR.

Yeah, the only downside of the HD200 remote is the lack of the three programmable buttons which are very useful combined with the AVR...

One question, is with the HD300 you found out that your TV didn't handle the AC3/DTS on the HDMI input?

[KryptoNyte]

No, I don't have the 300 yet. It was in my testing with the HD200 that I realized the TV can't take an input from HDMI and output Digital Audio via optical output.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

No, I don't have the 300 yet. It was in my testing with the HD200 that I realized the TV can't take an input from HDMI and output Digital Audio via optical output.

That just seems weird to me. What brand and model of tv do you have?

[KryptoNyte]

Start at post #235, there are really not many posts to read, but it describes the issue. I was also surprised to learn the TV wasn't capable of it either.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1399227/of...u-xxc6400u/210