Memory leak in Sage 2

[Teg]

I'm not a programmer or harware guy, but I think I have good evidence for a memory leak in Sage 2.

Using a hauppauge 350, whenever I watch live TV I get a hard system freeze after 20 min to 2 h or so.

I have norton system doctor installed, and that reports physical memory free second-by-second. When Sage is loaded, it's stable, no decrease unless I open another program. When I start watching live TV, free physical memory starts decreasing at about 1-2 MB / second. Some variable time after it hits zero, it'll freeze.

If I run something like memory cleaner (memclnr.exe) constantly, I can rescue some memory and keep the whole system alive indefinitely.

So, programmers: doesn't that sound like a memory leak? Or am I wrong?

I've looked through the support discussion groups for similar issues, and I don't think this is due to the video directory problem, b/c everything is on the same drive in the default directory. I'm not using a server-client setup. And I already installed the updated irremote.dll that that guy with the sendmessage utility posted.

I sent an email to Frey tech support about this, too, but what do you all think? Anyone with a similar lock up that isn't due to the irremote problem or the directory problem?

win XP pro
AMD 950 MHz on Aopen board
Radeon 7000 (?) vid card
hauppauge 350 tuner
girder 3.2.9
sage 2.0
512 MB RAM
45 GB Deskstar

[justme]

You're running the default STV right? Does Task manager give you any info on what process is using the memory. I don't have Norton, myself. Norton actually made my old(it wasn't a Sage box) PC unstable so I stopped using Norton. Also what does Sage's System Information screen say about memory heap usage?

[Opus4]

What kind of setting do you have for your virtual memory? If Windows needs to swap out some memory & you haven't allowed it to use more space in teh cache fle... who knows what it will do. (Not saying that is what is happening here, but it is something to check.)

- Andy

[Teg]

Interesting and sensible suggestions.

I ran sage tv recording something (in sleep mode, which makes no difference from watching live TV, physical RAM free still counts down to 0, then crashes) and then looked at 'JVM heap size' and also memory allocation in taskmgr.

When physical memory is at 0.0 by Norton, taskmgr reports that sagetv uses 46.5 MB, and 'JVM heap size' in setup is reported at 24/37 MB.

I don't quite know what to make of these data. They appear to say that Sage is not the problem, yet the 'RAM countdown' does not happen if Sage isn't recording.

Also, I re-installed windows (and sage, and everything else) to see if this happens when Sage isn't running and it does not-- no sage recording, no free-RAM countdown. (Also didn't re-install Girder this time, so that can't be the problem.)

Should I try the Beta version? Other suggestions?

Thanks again for your attention.

[Teg]

Also: windows virtual memory settings are windows defaults. Windows gets to adjust them. Is there a tweak here I should apply?

[Opus4]

Go to Control Panel -> System -> Advanced tab -> Performance Settings -> Advanced tab. What is the Virtual Memory setting for the total paging size for all drives?

Edit: I was typing while you posted that last comment... I would force the cache file to some size, perhaps 1024MB min, and see what happens. Preferably, the cache file won't be on the system or video drive, but I see you only have 1 drive.

- Andy

[Teg]

VM settings were 'windows default', which I changed to 1024 min. Now it says '1024-15028' (or so).

It didn't apear to make any difference to the 'free RAM countdown'.


The size of memory used as reported by the program is normal-ish: 24 MB/ 37 MB or so. It never reports any higher than that. Likewise, taskmgr reports that sage TV only occupies 45 MB of RAM or so.

Nevertheless, this system is rock-stable if I don't run sageTV. The leak must be in memory that isn't being used by the program, but also isn't being relinquished.

[stanger89]

What happens if you don't have Norton running?

[Opus4]

I always see free physical memory count down & then pop back up while recording, so that didn't surprise me... but I don't get the lockups you are talking about. (I don't have a 350, though.)

The only time I had memory problems recently was when using the Hauppauge remote & running an external program from within irremote.ini... but I see you list that you are using Girder. Are you using the Hauppauge remote? I wonder if the plugin for that remote makes use of that same dll I had problems with... perhaps check out the dll in this post. But, Windows would let me know when it was running out of memory -- meaning both physical & virtual. Physical memory going to or near 0 doesn't always mean much, to me.

Does it lock when SageTV is sleeping & recording, or just during live TV? Are you using the 350's TV out? Is it heat-related w/the 350, perhaps? Others have reported 350 lockup issues.

- Andy

[Teg]

Originally posted by Opus4
I always see free physical memory count down & then pop back up while recording, so that didn't surprise me... but I don't get the lockups you are talking about. (I don't have a 350, though.)

The only time I had memory problems recently was when using the Hauppauge remote & running an external program from within irremote.ini... but I see you list that you are using Girder. Are you using the Hauppauge remote? I wonder if the plugin for that remote makes use of that same dll I had problems with... perhaps check out the dll in this post. But, Windows would let me know when it was running out of memory -- meaning both physical & virtual. Physical memory going to or near 0 doesn't always mean much, to me.

Does it lock when SageTV is sleeping & recording, or just during live TV? Are you using the 350's TV out? Is it heat-related w/the 350, perhaps? Others have reported 350 lockup issues.

- Andy

I tried that dll, didn't help. I also re-installed windows and Sage and did not re-install Girder (or sendmessage.exe) and I still see the same problem.

It locks up when Sage is sleeping and recording in addition to live TV.

I am using the 350's TV out.

I'll try recording a bunch of stuff with WinTV2000 (the crappy utility that came with the card) tonight and see what that does. That should also answer the Norton question, too.

Thanks!

[mike208]

I have a similar problem myself, I don't normally use norton disk doctor, but since I read this thread, I checked it out. After I installed sage I noticed my system had slowed considerably. Menus in sage take several seconds to pop up, and other programs and the like take more time then usual to initialize.

I have a 2100+ with 512MB of memory, without sage running(but a few other programs running)I have 350MB or better free. At this point I notcie some memory loss, but it generally goes down a bit then jumps back up a bit....

With sage running it just goes down continuously, until it bottoms out, at that time my system does not freeze or anything, it usually seems to jump back up to around 20MB free and then starts counting down again. SO while I have no freezing or crashes, Sage makes my system run slower then all get out.

[stanger89]

I've really got to think it has something to do with norton, I've run Sage for weeks without anything like you describe (current uptime is over 2 days). You two are the only ones I've heard comment on this and you're both running Norton.

FWIW, there's currently 168/512MB free on my Sage server.

[carlgar]

mike208 are you also using a 350 with TVout enabled? If so it would be interesting for you to check if the same problems occur with the 350 TVout disabled.

While I have no idea whether there is a memory leak in SageTV or not, I am convinced that using the 350 TVout causes random type problems. I believe these are due to memory being written to that should not be. If memory is being destroyed this could result in memory not being released properly.

While the comments by stanger89 may be true, it does not indicate the absence of a problem. It only indicates that his system or method of use does not show a problem. I have encountered a couple of problems that only occured because of the hardware I am using. At this point most of the problems have been resolved with the latest drivers, however I am still using SageTV 1.4 to keep things simple.

[stanger89]

Definitely, but I find it very odd that the only two reports of memory leaks, are also by people running Norton (especially when it only shows up in nortons free memory counter).

[carlgar]

While that is possible I believe it may turn out that both of reporters may also be using the 350 TVout. If both are using the 350 TVout, I would have to blame the 350 TVout before Norton, given the history of 350 TVout related issues.

[justme]

This is well worth looking into, IMHO. While these two may be the only ones who've reported this. Like Carlgar points out it could be part of an issue related to the 350 and TVout/OSD issue. Their systems could just be a more extreme example of a common(among certian system configs) problem that could be causing stability issues with SageTV. I'd personally like to see these two ask Frey Support to enable debug logging on their systems. Maybe some info from these people could help Jeff make 350 use more stable for many.

/justme

[geekraver]

Originally posted by mike208
I have a similar problem myself, I don't normally use norton disk doctor, but since I read this thread, I checked it out. After I installed sage I noticed my system had slowed considerably. Menus in sage take several seconds to pop up, and other programs and the like take more time then usual to initialize.

I have a 2100+ with 512MB of memory, without sage running(but a few other programs running)I have 350MB or better free. At this point I notcie some memory loss, but it generally goes down a bit then jumps back up a bit....

With sage running it just goes down continuously, until it bottoms out, at that time my system does not freeze or anything, it usually seems to jump back up to around 20MB free and then starts counting down again. SO while I have no freezing or crashes, Sage makes my system run slower then all get out.

That seems consistent with a garbage collecting runtime like the JRE. I wonder if Norton could somehow be interfering with the garbage collection?

[Teg]

Originally posted by carlgar
While that is possible I believe it may turn out that both of reporters may also be using the 350 TVout. If both are using the 350 TVout, I would have to blame the 350 TVout before Norton, given the history of 350 TVout related issues.

I was using the 350's output.

I think you're right, or, at least, I think it's a hardware issue or a driver issue.

I uninstalled Norton -- no effect. Still get the hard freeze every 20 min to 2 hours.

I went out and bought an S-video cable, disabled the 350's output and ran the output through the TV out on my video card -- same thing, RAM countdown, then freeze some variable time after it hits 0.

I uninstalled Sage and recorded TV (still using vid card's TVout) using winTV2000 -- same freeze after the same period of time, roughly.

So, this has gotta be a CPU error or bad RAM, or a bad driver, right? What else could it be? Heat related issues on the 350 itself?

[carlgar]

Originally posted by Teg
So, this has gotta be a CPU error or bad RAM, or a bad driver, right? What else could it be? Heat related issues on the 350 itself?

I would consider the most likely candidate is still the SageTV/350 related software as a cause of the problem. I have not yet been able to stay up more than 24 hours using 350 TVout with the most recent drivers. It does bother me that you encountered problems even after disabling the 350 TVout. This leads me to believe that the 350 TVout may not be the source of the problem. I did notice the other day that about 20 mins. before I encountered a hard lockup on the 350 TVout, that the program being recorded on the 350 started having a studding problem. I encounter very few studder issues so this may be the start of the lockup problem. Other cards recording at the same time did not have any studder issues.

While I can't rule out a heat related issue, I don't believe it is a problem. I would however consider above being a CPU error or bad RAM.

The only reason I would even think about a CPU error or bad RAM is if other problems start showing problems when you have not even started SageTV. I have one problem reported to Frey Support that only shows up as soon as I start Sage TV. Frey Support as known about this problem for several months, I assume they are still working on the cause.

The one possible cause that you failed to mention is that it could be a motherboard/ chipset related issue. I would consider this a low priority also, but you should check the hardware others having this problem is using.

[justme]

Teg wrote:I uninstalled Sage and recorded TV (still using vid card's TVout) using winTV2000 -- same freeze after the same period of time, roughly

This info is the most interesting to me. This pretty much eliminates Sage as a cause, although Sage is effected. I'd tend to believe it could be drivers*. I've personally been burned by Hauppauge's drivers many times, so I do admit to being personally biased.

It's obviously something about your(not that it's your fault) setup. All the common things to check have already been mentioned. Since this only occurs when the 350 is active, narrow your search to that card, it's drivers, temp, PCI slot, etc. If you do want to check abour heat just open your case and point a large house fan at the MB while you run the test.

*I consider drivers that don't work with common chipsets to be bad drivers, even if they work on other chipsets. It's a card's manufacturers job to make sure their drivers work with all the common chipset/hardware combo's IMO.