Ultimate Video & Audio Quality

[tkruk]

I have wondered the forums for a while and found bits of info here and there but I haven't found a comprehensive
thread that would discuss optimal quality as a subject.

I think you and many enthusiasts who are getting into or have
HTPC experience would benefit.

I myself am about to build an HTPC and would love your input.

So lets hear some opinions and comments...

1. Best quality capture card (that works with SageTV)

2. Best quality TV-OUT card. Ultimately is it better to do
an SVIDEO or a DVI to Component connection. Has anyone had experience with a DVI OUT to a COMPONENT connection???

3. Best quality in sound....
Which card? I looked at Creative Labs but could not find one with optical output.

Also some minor points

When utilizing multiple tuners. Do you need a sound card for each input???

What do you guys thing is the ultimate setu. (Yours I am sure)...

Tell us why!!!

[stanger89]

Hey, welcome to the forum.

Originally posted by tkruk
I have wondered the forums for a while and found bits of info here and there but I haven't found a comprehensive
thread that would discuss optimal quality as a subject.

I think you and many enthusiasts who are getting into or have
HTPC experience would benefit.

I myself am about to build an HTPC and would love your input.

So lets hear some opinions and comments...

1. Best quality capture card (that works with SageTV)

Based on some of the discussion in the Roslyn threads, it would apprear that the PVR 250 is still the best choice. It seems to be the only one that seems to have nearly universal positive results (Roslyns seem to have both pos/neg).

2. Best quality TV-OUT card. Ultimately is it better to do
an SVIDEO or a DVI to Component connection. Has anyone had experience with a DVI OUT to a COMPONENT connection???

If you can go HD, then do it. DVI is potentially the best option, I currently run VGA with awesome results, I also have an ATI Component adapter that works well.

If you've got a display that will accept DVI or VGA I'd go for a Geforce FX 5900 right now.

If you require a component connection, your best bet is a Radeon 9800 probably (there's a Geforce FX 5950 w/ component but it's $400).

3. Best quality in sound....
Which card? I looked at Creative Labs but could not find one with optical output.

Creative cards are far from ideal, primarily they force resampling of 44.1kHz audio (CDs) to 48kHz, unacceptable in an HT environment. I currently use an M-Audio Revolution, but if all you need is optical digital output, you may want to look at the Chaintek AV-710.

Also some minor points

When utilizing multiple tuners. Do you need a sound card for each input???

No, the sound is recorded in the MPEG and played back via your soundcard when you watch the recording (live works the same way).

What do you guys thing is the ultimate setu. (Yours I am sure)...

Tell us why!!!

Well mine is far from the ultimate but it is very good I think.

The hardware:
P4B 2.4
Abit BE7
512 Corsair XMS
Radeon 9500 (to be replaced by a GF FX 5900 or possibly 6800)
M-Audio Revolution - Digital out
WinTV PVR 250
WD 200GB
Seagate 160GB
Ahanix D.Vine 4 Case

The Software:
SageTV 2.0
ATI Catalyst 4.7
M-Audio 1024 drivers
Win XP Pro SP1
DX 9.0b
Sonic Cineplayer Decoders (For DVDs)
Recordings are generally 3GB/hr
nVDVD 3 + ffdshow unsharp mask/denoise3d (For Sage Recordings)
Foobar 2000 for music (planning to move to JR Media Center 10)
All music is ripped from my collection to lossless Monkey's Audio

Source is Mcleodusa Cable

It's quite (not quite enough, I need to get the HDDs out of it), I get bit-perfect audio (DVDs/music). Recording quality is excellent, almost DVD quality at times. This is currently the source for all my media. It drives my HT system:

RCA 36" HDTV
Yamaha RX-V595a
Klipsch SF-1 Mains
Klipsch SC-1 Center
Klipsch SB-2 Surrounds
Velodyne CHT-12

[cmaffia]

Originally posted by tkruk
What do you guys thing is the ultimate setu. (Yours I am sure)...

Tell us why!!!

I like my setup :-)

[tkruk]

Thanks for the input.

It seems like ATI cards would be better since
I can get a DVI-Component adapter and that will yield me
somewhat better quality of video than straight SVIDEO...

Is that correct???

I'm just wondering if it will work. My TV has component inputs
but does not have HDTV tuner built in. Logic tells me that
it shouldn't matter since I'm not capturing HDTV so the output
won't be HDTV even if its going over DVI-Component.

Could someone confirm that (and if possible tell me of their experience with DVI-Component.... Is it worth it?)

Thanks guys

[kny3twalker]

Stanger89 in my audigy you can choose the sampling rate of 44.1, 48, or 96

[stanger89]

The Audigy's are not capable of outputting 44.1k over S/PDIF period, if you doubt it go here and download some the clips. They are 44.1k DTS encoded and if they are not played back bit-perfect, they are undecodeable and produce static. Oh, and you'll have to use ASIO or Kernel Streaming (Try Foobar2000) to have a chance of it working.

Per Creative's Audgy 2 ZS Specifications

# SPDIF output up to 24-bit at 48 or 96kHz
# ASIO 2.0 drivers for low latency (as low as 2ms) multi-track playback and recording at 16-bit/48kHz or 24-bit/96kHz

If they can truely output 44.1 via analog (which I know of no way to test) then it's even more assnine that they force resampling to 48kHz

[stanger89]

Originally posted by tkruk
Thanks for the input.

It seems like ATI cards would be better since
I can get a DVI-Component adapter and that will yield me
somewhat better quality of video than straight SVIDEO...

Is that correct???

I'm just wondering if it will work. My TV has component inputs
but does not have HDTV tuner built in. Logic tells me that
it shouldn't matter since I'm not capturing HDTV so the output
won't be HDTV even if its going over DVI-Component.

Could someone confirm that (and if possible tell me of their experience with DVI-Component.... Is it worth it?)

Thanks guys

Yes, if you have an HD-ready TV (doesn't need an HD Tuner), and it requires component YPbPr input then the Radeon is probably your best choice. Like I said I've got a Radeon 9500 and I have the component adapter, I've used it on our Mitsubishi WT-46809 (HD-ready) and it works just fine.

If you don't have any other way of getting an HD signal to your TV then yes it's well worth it. However if you have DVI, VGA, or RGBHV (5 component) then you might want to try one of them first.

[kny3twalker]

well look at this
is this what you are saying that audigy's cannot do

[stanger89]

Try plaing one of those files I linked. Use Foobar with KernelStreaming output over S/PDIF to a DTS reciever. If you get any thing but static I'll be extremely surprised.

[stanger89]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...udigy+resample

[kny3twalker]

Yeah I see that person thought the same thing as I did and not too long ago apparently

[mdmint]

Originally posted by tkruk
Thanks for the input.

It seems like ATI cards would be better since
I can get a DVI-Component adapter and that will yield me
somewhat better quality of video than straight SVIDEO...

Is that correct???

I'm just wondering if it will work. My TV has component inputs
but does not have HDTV tuner built in. Logic tells me that
it shouldn't matter since I'm not capturing HDTV so the output
won't be HDTV even if its going over DVI-Component.

Could someone confirm that (and if possible tell me of their experience with DVI-Component.... Is it worth it?)

Thanks guys

I'll throw in my 2cents on ATI with component dongle doing a good jog. I went with a Radeon 9600 rather than 9800 because it was the highest end Radeon without a fan. Wanted quiet Client. Seems to be working well though haven't had the opportunity to direct comparison with a Radeon 9800.

Your original question included multi tuner question. (though audio output specific) If planning a multi-tuner HTPC setup I'd highly suggest a separate Server and Client scenario. Server loaded with tuners and boo-koo HD storage, Client built for quiet and playback. Not just noise advantage, but when playing with tweaking output and various decoders or Fddshow settings or changing audio or STVs from Client chances are you "may" end up needing to occasionally restart SageClient or even reboot system. If Server separate it will just keep on chugging away recording no problem, it doesn't care if you screwed up you Client! My new SageTV Server has been up for 15days straight without a hiccup, would have been longer but downed it to upgrade storage HD system from 750GB to 1.5TB, hasn't been down since the upgrade. (even up during one power brown out and two total power outages, big UPS )

Good-luck!

[salsbst]

Component inputs are not just slightly better than Svideo, they are WAY better, even when the resolution is kept at the s-video maximum of 640x480i.

But...component can do 1920x1080i. If your TV has component inputs, it probably supports 1080i, or at least 640x480p. Go for it!

[rdefino]

Stanger89,

You say you use nVDVD 3. What does that do for you and how do you incorpate that and fddshow into sagetv?

Also you have a 3 after nvdvd, is that the version. I checked Nvidia's site and the latest I found is 2.55

Thanks for any help
Ron

[GTwannabe]

What kind of TV will you be using? Hopefully it's one that does native 720P or 1080P without automatic overscan. If your TV has one of those oddball resolutions (1366x768, 1024x768 w/ rectangular pixels, 1024x1024), it's a bit more complicated to set up and picture quality will suffer.

HDMI and DVI are the most desirable output choices for digital displays. Component is the best analog. VGA is slightly worse due to length limitations and crosstalk at higher resolutions. S-Video is marginal and limited to VGA at best. Component is utter crap.

A modern nVidia video card paired with the PureVideo MPEG decoder will provide superb quality output. The 7600GT is the cheapest card that supports all of the PureVideo enhancements.

[blade]

This thread is very old and a lot has changed since it was posted. I don't know exactly what stanger is running, but I know he has a 6800 with the latest Nvidia decoder and he's said several times he no longer uses ffdshow.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by rdefino

Stanger89,

You say you use nVDVD 3.

Actually now it's the nVidia PureVideo decoder, and it's version 4 of their decoder, though they call the package version 1.

What does that do for you and how do you incorpate that and fddshow into sagetv?

And actually I gave up on ffdshow a while ago, looks like when I made that post I was still using a Radeon 9500, things have come a long way since then.

Right now I'm using a Geforce 6800 and the latest nVidia decoders. This is (IIRC) considerably better than the setup I was running in the above post.

Also you have a 3 after nvdvd, is that the version.

I'm trying to remember exactly what was going on there. Version 3 was a beta that never got widely released, I really don't remember much about that setup anymore

I checked Nvidia's site and the latest I found is 2.55

What you want to look for is the PureVideo decoders, they're the commercial, end result of the version 3 beta, and probably the best decoders out there today.

[rdefino]

Thanks for the reply. I'm already using nvidia decoder. Now should I have the decoder set to use VRM9 in the decoder setting. Also, what should the other settings be set to.

one more thing, in sagetv. should the Mpeg2 video decoder filter be set to nvidia post processor or nvidia decoder.
Thanks again

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by rdefino

Thanks for the reply. I'm already using nvidia decoder. Now should I have the decoder set to use VRM9 in the decoder setting.

That doesn't do anything, the application (ie SageTV) decides what renderer to use.

Also, what should the other settings be set to.

I run with Hardware Accelleration enabled, Smart, and Best Available (or VMR Pixel Adaptive).

one more thing, in sagetv. should the Mpeg2 video decoder filter be set to nvidia post processor or nvidia decoder.
Thanks again

nVidia Video Decoder.

[rdefino]

Now I noticed that when I set it to nvidia decoder in sagetv, the nividia decoder applet doesn't show up in the system try. But if I set it to nvidia post processor it does show up.

Also when looking at the settings in the decoder applet, it says Nvidia Video Post processor under decoder format & software mode UYVY.