Google Fiber - my experience w what's left of SageTV

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by wayner

One of the things we could see if Sage was still alive would be a move to a 64 bit JVM which would allow more than 1 GB of memory which should have alleviated such issues. And hopefully they could have fixed the Placeshifter issues as it has never worked very well.

Sorry, but 64-bit wouldn't fix Placeshifter. As far as video encoding Placeshifter has always used an external program, a custom version of FFMpeg, to transcode video for Placeshifter playback. Not necessarily a bad thing but it's never worked right with interlaced H.264 video. Just the technology base of Placeshifter has been passed over even before Google bought SageTV.

Placeshifter uses MPEG2 video whereas newer streaming software such as Plex all use H.264. Not to mention the fact that Placeshifter is stuck in the world of SD. Placeshifter should have been updated to new tech a long time ago but was unfortunately not their priority.

Plex has filled the streaming niche for me. I'm able to access all my media through remote or local streaming as well as storing pre-converted content on my devices. Far more flexible and higher in quality than Placeshifter ever has been.

[wayner]

I realize that 64 bit JVM has nothing to do with Placeshifter - I just meant that these are two of the biggest drawbacks in the "core" SageTV that can/will never be fixed.

I still hope for the day that Google OpenSources SageTV V7 and some of our devs can take it over and bring it back to life. But it is probably getting too late for that to be useful as many of the folks who developed some of the great plugins/UIs are moving on.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Plex has filled the streaming niche for me. I'm able to access all my media through remote or local streaming as well as storing pre-converted content on my devices. Far more flexible and higher in quality than Placeshifter ever has been.

Does this work for shows that aren't Plex-friendly like sports? Or do you use one of the plugins to send metadata from Sage to Plex?

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Brent

I am guessing that eventually there will be so much competition from the non-cable companies like Netflix that the HBO's, AMC's, and other "channels" will open up to selling their content in ways not locked in to the cable companies themselves.

But sports is still the big hook as you mentioned above. I only see that changing in one of two ways:

Netflix (or Apple) decides to really shake things up and bid for TV rights for the NFL or another major sporting event.

The sports teams/leagues decide to forego the middlemen of the cable channels and cable/sat distributors and go all-in on their web based video streaming. I have heard of some sports-loving cable cutters that have moved to the online delivery of sports but they pay $200/yr or something similar per sport and have to use evasive measures to avoid blackouts. But that somewhat shrinks the market as not everyone can figure out how to watch this type of content on their TV if they don't have any sources other than a cable/sat box.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by wayner

Does this work for shows that aren't Plex-friendly like sports? Or do you use one of the plugins to send metadata from Sage to Plex?

I use the SageTV plugins for Plex.

Honestly, we rarely watch live TV. When we do we don't watch it in SageTV. I've never been a huge sports fan. Gotten into OKC Thunder basketball but we always watch the games straight from cable.

So it doesn't matter that we can't currently watch live TV from Plex. In fact, in our family Plex is mostly for me. We have yet to need it for anyone else.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by wayner

I still hope for the day that Google OpenSources SageTV V7 and some of our devs can take it over and bring it back to life.

That would be more likely if Sage weren't the guts of Google Fiber. Considering that the programming inside the Google Fiber box is actually SageTV v8, I doubt they are going to be sharing it. Wouldn't that just be giving away their technology to the competition for free?

[wayner]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

That would be more likely if Sage weren't the guts of Google Fiber. Considering that the programming inside the Google Fiber box is actually SageTV v8, I doubt they are going to be sharing it. Wouldn't that just be giving away their technology to the competition for free?

True - but it is possible that they move away from using Sage as the core of their DVR engine.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Honestly, we rarely watch live TV. When we do we don't watch it in SageTV. I've never been a huge sports fan. Gotten into OKC Thunder basketball but we always watch the games straight from cable.

I never watch live TV but I find sports are the best thing to watch recorded. I watch games in near real time, meaning that I will often begin watching sports while the event is still going on. So if an NBA/NHL game starts at 7:30 I may start watching it at 9 or so.

A basketball game should only take 48 minutes to watch, less if you skip through walking the ball up the court. But the broadcast of an NBA game is usually over 2.5 hours.

And I bet Google Fiber doesn't have SRE - one of the most useful plugins EVER.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by wayner

I never watch live TV but I find sports are the best thing to watch recorded. I watch games in near real time, meaning that I will often begin watching sports while the event is still going on. So if an NBA/NHL game starts at 7:30 I may start watching it at 9 or so.

A basketball game should only take 48 minutes to watch, less if you skip through walking the ball up the court. But the broadcast of an NBA game is usually over 2.5 hours.

And I bet Google Fiber doesn't have SRE - one of the most useful plugins EVER.

I think we could watch more stuff through SageTV if we had more cable capable tuners. Meaning able to tune "copy once" or "copy never" stuff. Right now we have an HD-PVR for that. To add another cable box dedicated to SageTV is cost prohibitive. I would rather we had CableCard capable tuners but that is not possible with the Cox Cable and SageTV mix. They mark nothing except locals as "copy always". An unfortunate situation but our choices are limited and bring little to no value over what we already have.

[wayner]

True - I have two HD-PVRs and two HD cable boxes hooked up to them. Here in Canada we use the same technology as in the US but we have the option of buying cable boxes outright. Years ago I bought several boxes when they were on sale for a good price (I think $200 each) and these boxes are connected to the HD-PVRs. The boxes that I am using are somewhat obsolete as they only have component output, not HDMI. But that is perfect for the HD-PVR.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by wayner

I never watch live TV but I find sports are the best thing to watch recorded. I watch games in near real time, meaning that I will often begin watching sports while the event is still going on. So if an NBA/NHL game starts at 7:30 I may start watching it at 9 or so.

A basketball game should only take 48 minutes to watch, less if you skip through walking the ball up the court. But the broadcast of an NBA game is usually over 2.5 hours.

And I bet Google Fiber doesn't have SRE - one of the most useful plugins EVER.

I do watch some sports slightly delayed and ffwd through commercials, but only about 1/2 the time.

Google Fiber does NOT have SRE or any of the other cool plugins. When you set up a recording of a live event like sports GF does this which does handle most of those situations:


PS: Now that I see that screen-shot I am reminded how rough of a sports day Saturday was. My Mizzou Tigers lost their way and my KC Royals forgot how to tag up at third base.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by wayner

True - but it is possible that they move away from using Sage as the core of their DVR engine.

I would also agree that SageTV will not be open sourced or anything similar as long as it is used as the Networked DVR/Media engine. No idea if there are any plans to change that in the future.

[will]

Originally Posted by wayner

• What model Slingbox do you have and/or would you buy today?
• Do you connect the Slingbox up to an extender?
• Do you use a dedicated extender or do you just use an extender at one of your TVs with the drawback that someone can't be using that extender to watch SageTV when you are using it for placeshifting.
• Which output from the extender? HD (HDMI or component) or SD (s-video or composite)? If HD do you used 1080i or 720p?

• I use a Slingbox 350; I'm happy with my purchase and it works great but it is only component and the HD200/300 can't output both component and HDMI. The HD200 I use is hooked up to a standard def TV (only one in the house) so I don't mind but if I had to do it over I might go with the 500 because it supports HDMI pass through.
• The extender I use with it is pretty much dedicated to the Slingbox (it is hooked up to my gym TV). If I had a big family I wouldn't put it on the main TV because the extender can only only show one thing at a time. I seriously considered making my extra HD300 a dedicated Slingbox extender but I rarely ever have issues with the gym TV being used while I am away so it wasn't worth the hassle. It really depends on your extender situation.
• HDMI/component really doesn't make a difference with the Slingbox because it isn't going to stream at a high enough rate to notice. At max quality the picture is great but it will never be high enough quality to matter. If you get the 350, it is smaller and cheaper but it only does component at 1080i while the 500 supports HDMI at 1080p. I would consider where you are going to put this; if you do a dedicated extender or have a TV hooked up already by component then you would probably be fine saving the extra money and getting the 350

The Slingbox works really well and if you do get one make sure to use the media server remote over the built in IR blaster for Slingbox. The Slingbox works on a 5 second buffer lag so using a live IR blaster is tedious. I posted details about my setup in a previous post.

[will]

Originally Posted by wayner

I still hope for the day that Google OpenSources SageTV V7 and some of our devs can take it over and bring it back to life. But it is probably getting too late for that to be useful as many of the folks who developed some of the great plugins/UIs are moving on.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. Google isn't the best open source partner; they say they are but they use closed source software to control markets, e.g., Android is open source but if you want your Android phone to be useful and have calendar, gmail, Play store, etc. you have to submit to Google's terms so you can install their closed sourced programs like Play store and gmail.

Why would Google want to help a competitor make a better cable box with an opened sourced version of SageTV? I just don't see it happening.

[will]

Originally Posted by wayner

A basketball game should only take 48 minutes to watch, less if you skip through walking the ball up the court. But the broadcast of an NBA game is usually over 2.5 hours.

I agree 100%. I can't understand why someone, especially alone, wants to spend three hours watching a football/baseball/basket ball game (unless it is the Super Bowl).

[will]

Originally Posted by wayner

I bet Google Fiber doesn't have SRE - one of the most useful plugins EVER.

I know this is off topic but how does SRE work? How does the plugin know to extend a recording? Does SRE know a game is running over and extends it or does it just assume all games run over and automatically extends all sport recordings?

Also, does SRE work for TV shows that get pushed late because of a game that runs before hand (lot of Sunday shows get messed up by football/baseball)?

[wayner]

SRE monitors a web site(s) - I think Slugger now uses ESPN to see if the game is Final or if it is still taking place. If the game is not final then it keeps the recording going. Every once in a while it scans your upcoming recordings to see if they are in the database of upcoming games - if they are then SRE kicks in and I think there is an indicator on both the Sage UI and the web UI.

SRE doesn't help you for any shows that are pushed later. It only works to record the specific recording event.

There are also plugins to disable the timeline for SRE monitored shows. This is particularly relevant for playoff hockey games. If you are watching a recorded game and it is near the end of the third period then from the timeline you can tell if the game goes to OT or not.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by will

I agree 100%. I can't understand why someone, especially alone, wants to spend three hours watching a football/baseball/basket ball game (unless it is the Super Bowl).

I cracked up when I read this article about the NFL a few years ago. Glad I don't watch sports.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by will

[LIST]The Slingbox works really well and if you do get one make sure to use the media server remote over the built in IR blaster for Slingbox. The Slingbox works on a 5 second buffer lag so using a live IR blaster is tedious. I posted details about my setup in a previous post.

We are getting way OT so I started a new topic specifically regarding to Sage and Slingbox - it is here http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...689#post566689

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by Brent

I would also agree that SageTV will not be open sourced or anything similar as long as it is used as the Networked DVR/Media engine. No idea if there are any plans to change that in the future.

The only possibility I see is if they open source a stripped down version of SageTV 7. I am sure a lot of work went into SageTV 8 to add all of the video on demand sources and the DRM stuff and I don't see any possibility of them open spourcing that. Maybe there is enough distance between 7 and 8 that they'd feel comfortable open sourcing the older version.

Wishful thinking on my part.