Sage and DirecTV

[jillsy]

Originally Posted by jchiso

I don't know what your local cable company offers, but I'm guessing it's not as much as DirecTV. Whenever I travel and am forced to deal with local cable providers I just about go nuts. I usually try placeshifting with Sage, but that's often dicey, given the crappy wireless in most hotels and vacation rentals.

I use a combination of DirecTV STBs, HD Homeruns (for OTA), and Hauppauge HD-DVR USB capture devices. The systems perform flawlessly, and have done so for years. The DirecTV channel lineup works the same as any other, and you can remove any channels to which you don't subscribe from the Guide.

Thanks for the info, jchiso. First off, an off-topic question about your Hauppauge USB devices: do you allow your Sage system to sleep? If so, are the USB devices recognized by Sage when the system wakes to record? I briefly tried a Hauppauge 1950 (I had to return it because of faulty S-Video) and once or twice Sage didn't recognize it when the system woke from sleep.

If the CableCARD/Prime thing doesn't work out, I'm likely going to DirecTV. I like a lot of what they have to offer, especially the NFL Sunday Ticket. As much as Charter annoys me, staying with them and utilizing CableCARD would be the least troublesome for me at this point, and I could preserve my Sage box's ability to record multiple shows at once. With DirecTV, I would be limited to just one program via a DirecTV STB. Granted, I could rely more on DirecTV's DVR service, which is definitely better than Charter's.

My other issue with DirecTV is they refuse to carry sub-channels. One of my favorite channels is MeTV, which is a sub-channel of my local NBC affiliate. I could get an antenna and a HDHomeRun, but that means something else I have to mount on my house.

I am comforted by the knowledge that I can terminate Charter at any time and switch to DirecTV, so I want to at least give this CableCARD thing a try before making a major move.

Thanks again for the info about your Sage system and your experience with DirecTV.

[BobPhoenix]

I have a hybrid setup myself. I have internet access through my cable company and in addition I get the locals including the subchannels via Clear QAM (no I'm not paying for them they just haven't shut them off). But I use DirecTV for all other channels. I also have an antenna that I had installed but the reception is horrible - the installers didn't know what they were doing even though they had a signal strength meter.

So if you are still planning on keeping cable for internet you might find that your locals are still available to you as well. Assuming they are available on QAM currently anyway.

[jillsy]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

I have a hybrid setup myself. I have internet access through my cable company and in addition I get the locals including the subchannels via Clear QAM (no I'm not paying for them they just haven't shut them off). But I use DirecTV for all other channels. I also have an antenna that I had installed but the reception is horrible - the installers didn't know what they were doing even though they had a signal strength meter.

So if you are still planning on keeping cable for internet you might find that your locals are still available to you as well. Assuming they are available on QAM currently anyway.

Yes, I do get Internet (and phone) through Charter, which is also a factor in my hesitation to migrate to DirecTV. There really are no other Internet options in my area, and other phone options are significantly more expensive. So I would have to stay with Charter for those services, and likely pay more for them than I am now since they're currently bundled with TV.

My splitter tuner card (Hauppauge 2250) has clear QAM capabilities, but I've never looked into utilizing them. How do I check for them in SageTV? Should I see other channel lineup options when I set up that tuner? When I set it up in Sage recently, I just recall choosing the Charter standard lineup. I don't recall what other options I was given during setup.

It will be interesting to see if I can get any clear QAM channels after the ATSC channels go away. And it would be spectacular if I were still able to get them even if I move to DirecTV while keeping Charter Internet. Thanks for making me aware of that possibility!

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by jillsy

Yes, I do get Internet (and phone) through Charter, which is also a factor in my hesitation to migrate to DirecTV. There really are no other Internet options in my area, and other phone options are significantly more expensive. So I would have to stay with Charter for those services, and likely pay more for them than I am now since they're currently bundled with TV.

My splitter tuner card (Hauppauge 2250) has clear QAM capabilities, but I've never looked into utilizing them. How do I check for them in SageTV? Should I see other channel lineup options when I set up that tuner? When I set it up in Sage recently, I just recall choosing the Charter standard lineup. I don't recall what other options I was given during setup.

It will be interesting to see if I can get any clear QAM channels after the ATSC channels go away. And it would be spectacular if I were still able to get them even if I move to DirecTV while keeping Charter Internet. Thanks for making me aware of that possibility!

It should be as easy as picking your 2250 tuner (I use a few of those as well) and choosing Digital Signal then selecting Cable/Satellite instead of Antenna. Then you pick your Cable company lineup for EPG and only select the local channels (in my case anyway as those are all I get). The rest of them are disabled for that tuner.

If you want to test I would make a backup of your SageTV directory so you can restore it back. But then just hook up the cable to the 2250 antenna input (not the FM input - I believe that is the second input anyway). Then get into SageTV and select it like I outlined above (digital signal I believe is one of the 2250 options). Then scan for channels. It might identify them all correctly or it might not. The first time I scanned for QAM channels I had to watch them to find out where they belonged for some/all of them (CSPAN and religious channels for sure anyway). Right now you might find you can receive allot of your cable channels not just locals. If you cancel cable and just stick with internet you may still get them for a while or just local or none at all. My brother and his wife cancelled cable at her father's address when he passed away but it was still available for several months afterward while they were selling the house.

[jillsy]

Thank you so much for this information, BobPhoenix! I'm almost anxious for the digital transition now so I can try this out!

I was so bummed when I received that Charter letter, and I still wish they would just leave things alone. However, thanks to everyone's help here, I actually feel a little excited about trying out some new equipment.

[UgaData]

The switch to digital isn't the worst thing that can happen. That's why I asked about how the cable company worded their letter.

Most likely the 2250 is already using QAM tuning. An ATSC tuner is a digital tuner. It's the NTSC tuners, or more precisely, analog tuners that can't be used without a converter, after the switchover to digital. And not all ATSC tuners are QAM capable or the QAM implementation isn't supported by 3rd parties'.

Unfortunately, some cable companies use the digital switch to also enable encryption and not leave any channels in the clear (ClearQAM). It used to be that at least the local OTA channels would be left in the clear but that has started to change. I have Comcast and no longer have any channels left in the clear. Presently,cablecard tuners work fine for non-premium channels

F.W.I.W. - Many of the cablecard tuners are QAM capable when used without a cablecard (I believe the PRIME is one of these). The cablecard is needed to decrypt the encrypted channels. Then on top of the encryption is the copy flags or CCI flags for copy freely, copy once, or copy never that are used to differentiate the premium channels from the regular cable channels.

[jillsy]

Originally Posted by UgaData

Most likely the 2250 is already using QAM tuning. An ATSC tuner is a digital tuner. It's the NTSC tuners, or more precisely, analog tuners that can't be used without a converter, after the switchover to digital. And not all ATSC tuners are QAM capable or the QAM implementation isn't supported by 3rd parties'.

Is there any way to tell? The 2250 is supposed to be capable of ATSC, NTSC, and QAM. I just assume mine is not using QAM because the channel lineup is exactly the same as I get through a couple of older TVs that aren't connected to STBs. Since those TVs are older, I'm sure they don't have QAM tuners.

A couple of my newer TVs have built-in QAM tuners, but I've never even tried them since those TVs are connected to STBs via HDMI.

[UgaData]

I may have "typed" too soon.... I knew the 2250 was an ATSC tuner but not an NTSC tuner as well. It looks like the 2250 has been replaced by a 2255.

The closest tuner I have to the 2250/2255 is an HVR-1600 which is similar in that it is ATSC/QAM/NTSC capable but the 1600 has separate connections for the Analog and digital tuners. Unlike the 2255 which looks like it has a single connection for all the tuners (both analog and digital tuners) and I will presume the 2250 is similar.

It is possible your recording/capturing using the NTSC capabilities of the card. Are you capturing HD or SD recordings?

NTSC or analog tuners are what we have had for years, the first capture cards or tuners were analog or NTSC (yeah I know that isn't really what NTSC means but in this context, it works). These work for both over the air and cable, at least until things switch to digital.

ATSC or digital tuners work for over the air signals. These can also capture HD broadcasts. I don't believe an ATSC tuner without QAM is able to capture/receive a cable signal.

Some ATSC are also QAM capable, and when connected to a cable system that broadcasts in clearQAM can receive/capture that signal.

Looking at the post from BobPhoenix, you may be able to determine how your receiving the cable signal by looking at the video source setup in sage (SETUP > Setup Video Sources ). I think this will indicate if your using the digital tuner (ATSC/QAM) or analog tuner (NTSC) for the 2250 listing.

I hope this is helpful and if I have it wrong I apologize, hopefully someone will chime in and verify I'm correct or thump me for being wrong.

It's been a while since I used a tuner that had both analog and digital tuning capabilities.

[jillsy]

My 2250 is connected to my cable system with co-ax and no STB, so I would imagine it's using NTSC just like my older, non-STB TVs. It doesn't record anything in HD.

The 2250 also has an audio/video input that can be used to connect to a STB. It includes a breakout cable to which you connect composite audio and S-video cables to one end, and the other end connects to the single A/V input on the 2250 (it looks similar to a S-video port). I have used a 2250 that way in the past, but the audio was very muffled. The audio through the ATSC/NTSC/QAM input is normal.

I don't really know what the deal is with the 2255. That's how Hauppauge lists it on its website, but I have never seen the 2255 for sale at Newegg (although the 2250 at Newegg lists 1213 as its model number, the same as the 2255). Based on the images, I don't see any difference between the 2255 and my 2250, and both use the same driver.

I also have a 1600. I originally purchased it as a backup, but ended up having to use it because the 1950 (USB) I purchased had a faulty S-video port and the composite connection resulted in horrible video quality. Since the 1600 has separate audio and video inputs, its audio from my STB is much better than the audio produced by the 2250 when connected to the STB. The big drawback with the 1600 is that it doesn't support widescreen video. I use the Zoom C setting on my Sage 300 to zoom in to the 16:9 content of widescreen programs so I don't have to look at the ugly top and bottom borders.

Since my living-room TV and STB are easily accessible, I decided to try connecting the co-ax directly to the TV (which has a QAM tuner). I ran the TV's auto program for both Air and Cable and it found 9 Air channels. I'm assuming those will go away when Charter makes its switch next month, rendering my 2250 completely worthless unless I connect it to a STB.

[BobPhoenix]

With Cable you would be using NTSC or QAM. If you had an antenna on your roof you would be using ATSC. I have 3 HDHomeRun Primes in preparation for a possible addition of non-premium channels and CableCard. They are currently being used for QAM tunning (well 6 of the 9 tuners are defined and used on 2 of my servers anyway). Another server is using 5 tuners from 2 and a half HDHomeRun version 1 boxes with QAM tuning. In case you are wondering I have between 7 and 10 tuners defined in SageTV on each of 4 servers.

[jillsy]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

In case you are wondering I have between 7 and 10 tuners defined in SageTV on each of 4 servers.

Wow, you must record A LOT! My 3 tuners have been adequate for me. It helps that HBO and Showtime repeat their shows, and Sage is smart enough to find future airings if there is any conflict. My real problem is finding time to watch all the stuff I record.

I don't have an antenna, so my 2250 tuner won't really serve a purpose if no QAM channels remain after Charter makes its switch.