I think I'm going to break down and go the TIVO route

[ace007]

&^%&^ Google....

The wife has finally fed up with Sage and the reliability issues we have been having and honestly I'm getting tired of working on a unsupported product. Looking at my requirements I think Tivo will probably be the best route.

1. Cablecard support - So I can get all my Comcast channels including the premiums.
2. Multi-TV support. Right now I have the Sage server attached to a projector in the theater room and two HD200s. I'd use two TIVO mini's to replace the HD200s so maybe I'll put those up for sale if somebody is interested. PM me although I'll probably only sell 1 initially until we work through all of our old recordings on Sage.
3. I like all the streaming to mobile devices although Sage has gotten some of this love.
4. Comcast On-Demand support - Never got this in Sage
5. I don't need to mess with it anymore hopefully. I'm a computer guy by trade but I'm just tired of dealing with it and the wife complaining.

Biggest loss will be Comskip but this has become less accurate over the past year. I think the networks are trying to foil it on purpose so usually we just do manual 30-sec skips which Tivo can do too.

Anybody have any better ideas.

[tvmaster2]

We use both TiVo and Sage. If it weren't for the need to play other formats (mp4, avi, etc.), and being able to convert material and then archive it (smaller file formats), then a TiVo Roamio (or Plus, if you don't need OTA recording) with mini's would be very reliable. Their interface is still the best.

[wayner]

How much with the monthly fees be with TiVo?

[ace007]

Originally Posted by wayner

How much with the monthly fees be with TiVo?

If I pay yearly it will be $12.50 a month. I'll be able to get rid of one of my Comcast boxes saying $3 a month and I ready have the CC from my SiliconDust tuner so it will cost me about $10 a month. By paying the subscription verses a lifetime it also provides an extended warranty for the hardware so I'm ok with it.

[Slugger]

Not sure about in the US, but Cogeco (eastern Ontario and Quebec) is charging $20/mth for the first tv and $7/mth for each additional tv (and you must have at least two tvs or they won't install it). Cogeco will not authorize 3rd party tivo equipment onto their network (i.e. you can't buy directly or from 3rd party sources, you must rent all tivo equipment).

New customers (and apparently retention offers, but I fall into the new customer category so can't confirm the retention deals) are getting the first 6 months at $15 off.

Initially I thought this was ridiculous but then I started comparing the rental costs vs. what I have laid out in MythTV/SageTV expenses over the years and it's not that far off. Those numbers are based on an approx. 4 year cycle of HTPC server equipment. Yes, I know, one need not rebuild a server every 4 years for HTPC but my usage pattern has been exactly that. Built my first Myth server in 2006 with the cheapest parts money could buy (just getting my feet wet with HTPC back then). A few months in, the myth box was the way everyone in the house watched tv. The cheap parts showed their colours rather quickly and the box died barely a year in. Put together my first Sage box in 2007 from spare/existing parts figuring it to be just a hold over until I had time to rebuild the myth box. Never looked back. The makeshift box lasted until fall 2008 when it was time to go to the HDPVR, etc, etc and that's when I built the Intel Q6600 quad core, 3GB RAM, etc., etc. No expense spared -- and it showed. This box was (and still is) a rockstar enjoying its retirement as my primary desktop in the office. But by 2013 it was showing its age (32bit XP, only 2GB RAM, etc.). Still worked fine, but when a couple hard drives died I used it as an excuse to go to the system in my signature today -- again no expense spared.

Between the high quality parts for initial build, failed hard drives here and there, expanded storage, a failed HDPVR, additional tuners (Colossus cards), extenders, a NAS box (retired in the last year), etc. I easily spend $1200 every 4-5 years on my Sage setup.

And tivo for two tvs is $27/mth = $324/yr = $1296/4 yrs

So probably a little more expensive than my Sage setup, but not much if it is (who knows how many incidentals I shelled out over the years -- UIRT, HDMI splitters are just a couple of incidentals that pop into my head that I can think of) and I'm not even factoring in the new customer discount, which I'm fairly confident I'd be able to extend beyond the initial offering -- I'm still on an initial "new customer" rate for my internet and have been since 2009. So really I expect my tivo setup to come in under $1000/4 yrs, which then definitely keeps it in line with Sage spending.

Bottom line, at $27/mth (or even at $12-16/mth on discount), I'm not dying to shutdown my existing Sage setup and move to tivo, but I have decided that not another dime will be spent on what's in this house already (except for failed hard drives, I'd replace those if needed). I expect to get at least another 3-4 years out of the existing setup, but that's it. If a motherboard goes boom unexpectedly or my extenders suddenly drop dead then I'll negotiate my hardest with Cogeco and move to tivo. I'm not totally in love with tivo, but it qualifies as sufficient. None of the other existing cable/sat PVR solutions (available in my area) come even close to getting a "sufficient" rating from me.

[tvmaster2]

Does TiVo offer Lifetime service to Canadian customers? I should think they would. That pays off when it comes time to sell and update Tivo's - Lifetime units likely sell faster on the eBay market. TiVo also bargains the price of Lifetime service with bundled hardware

[Slugger]

Not sure, but if so that would only be direct from Tivo which means no cable card support. The only way you can have tivo (Roamio) on cable in Canada is to rent thru Cogeco. No one else in Canada will offer you a cablecard to use with a Tivo Roamio and Cogeco will only authorize rented tivo equipment on their network. Cogeco is the only provider in Canada to offer tivo and it's $20 for the Roamio per month plus $7/mth for each mini you want (and you must take at least one mini or they won't install). There are no additional "tivo" fees so Cogeco subs don't have to pay tivo directly for EPG, etc. -- that's all part of the rental fee with Cogeco. Cogeco has partnered with Tivo to provide the service directly to its customers.

[wayner]

@Slugger - does the Cogeco TiVo box allow you to play back content in your own media library or does it only work with shows that it records itself? And does it play Netflix and other streaming services?

[Slugger]

Definitely does Netflix... they're all over advertising that fact. It also is bundled with other apps, not sure exactly which ones though. Initial research says it does not play back local media, only what's been recorded + whatever the apps do. Unless there's an app that will play back local content for tivo? Not sure, I didn't dig that deep into the research after I decided that I will eventually move to tivo, but hopefully not much before 2018-2019 and by then the details on whatever tivo does today is probably irrelevant.

[tmiranda]

The boot drive on my Sage server bit the dust last night. I think the gods are telling me it's time to go to TiVo

[mbowling]

But what do you do about commercial skipping on a Tivo? I've had commercial skipping for years with SageTV. It would be painful to not have the automatic skipping functionality.

I hear a lot of folks talk about having a separate SageTV server. I've always had SageTV installed on the only computer in my house, a regular PC in my office. The PC also runs my weather station software, home automation software, security cameras and squeezebox. I've run all of my software on a single computer for at least 10 years with no problems.

[alfi33]

Originally Posted by Slugger

Initially I thought this was ridiculous but then I started comparing the rental costs vs. what I have laid out in MythTV/SageTV expenses over the years and it's not that far off.

The arguments for SageTV or any PC based PVR/HTPC has never been about saving money.

Instead, at least for me, it's been about:

1. The added features, flexibility (obviously, this includes all the awesome stuff you've done, Slugger), and not having to compromise with using inferior equipment.
2. I had fun tweaking things, trying out new SageTV releases and plugins, etc.

The first reason is still very relevant to me, but the second has steadily faded away since the sale to Google.

I haven't spent too much time looking at Tivo, so maybe they've bridged the gap...and that would be great to have a decent option. But this type of discussion sure makes it evident how ahead of it's time SageTV was.

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

The boot drive on my Sage server bit the dust last night. I think the gods are telling me it's time to go to TiVo

... or they're trying to tell you that you need a new hard drive.

[crarbo1]

I'm considering jumping ship to Tivo too. We watch more youtube and amazon prime content now and it seems that Tivo now has that integrated in.

From what I can tell, I can get two 6 tuner Roamio Plus boxes with one Tivo Mini and have the same thing as I have now (actually I would get 4 more tuners that way).

There is one, possible two cons that I know of and that is a solution via the Tivo interface to watch my ripped DVD's and Blu Ray movies. It doesn't appear that they currently have a built in application that can do that. If they did, I think I wouldn't hesitate getting it.

The thing that I am not sure about is the subscription service. I know there are 3 subscription service plans: monthly, annually or lifetime. I hate the thought of paying monthly for basically the guide service, so I am willing to pay the lifetime service. However, I was wondering what the pros and cons were by going with the lifetime service. It seems like it would pay for itself after the third year, so I think that would be the better path. However, I just really started looking into this.

Does anyone have any advice for me?

Thanks,
Chuck

[7up]

Wait until after CES next month before making any decisions. As of today, its not really a legitimate contender to Tivo, but if Tablo cleans up their client software which they've promised to do and decides to support SiliconDust network tuners, it could be a real option.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by 7up

Wait until after CES next month before making any decisions. As of today, its not really a legitimate contender to Tivo, but if Tablo cleans up their client software which they've promised to do and decides to support SiliconDust network tuners, it could be a real option.

TabloTV needs to support DRM in order to be as good as a TIVO for us cable subscribers that may never happen or could take forever. I just cannot see if you are a Cable Subscriber that you would Invest money on something that does not do DRM. Cable Companies can choose to DRM everything at any time.

[ranger]

I picked up a copy of JRiver and have been able to get it to do MOST of the things I do in SageTV. Not an ideal replacement, and I'm still running SageTV until I really make up my mind, but $50.00 to install it on all the PCs I have is just to easy to not give it a go.
It can be set up to do comskip, which at least for me is a TIVO killer.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by alfi33

The arguments for SageTV or any PC based PVR/HTPC has never been about saving money.

Instead, at least for me, it's been about:

1. The added features, flexibility (obviously, this includes all the awesome stuff you've done, Slugger), and not having to compromise with using inferior equipment.
2. I had fun tweaking things, trying out new SageTV releases and plugins, etc.

The first reason is still very relevant to me, but the second has steadily faded away since the sale to Google.

I haven't spent too much time looking at Tivo, so maybe they've bridged the gap...and that would be great to have a decent option. But this type of discussion sure makes it evident how ahead of it's time SageTV was.

I did it mainly for the learning (it's how I forced myself to learn Java way back when) and tweaking but #2 made that no more. Tough to tweak and fiddle when the core is no longer developed. Instead the setup is basically an appliance that sits in my basement and feeds the house their tv. That's great, but as just a (superior) appliance based on fading technology, I've deemed it not worthy of anymore investment of my time nor money. Like I said, tivo isn't the "perfect, must have" replacement, but it "will do" when the current setup dies and is no longer functional. What started out as a learning exercise/hobby (with MythTV then Sage) became the way this house watches tv. Unless something else comes along that provides an open platform -- for me to tinker with -- and easy to deploy/maintain extenders to throw at each tv for everyone else to easily use then I'm not interested. That leaves me with an appliance type solution and so far only tivo fits the bill.

Things also change over time. 7 years ago, 8, 10, 12 hours of coding to pay the bills during the day and then 4, 6+ more on this platform 3-5 evenings a week was fun. Today, not so much. That's another factor at play as well, other things going on that are now more appealing than an extra session of coding so that also makes a tivo more appealing when the time comes.

The out of office projects catching my attention today are in a completely different area, but I also don't spend nearly as much time on them. 4-5 hours a week, sometimes with 2-3 weeks (or more) in between sessions. So am I going to rebuild an entire distributed pvr solution in my house ever again? Seems rather unlikely, but I will definitely enjoy the Sage setup I have until it no longer functions.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by crarbo1

I'm considering jumping ship to Tivo too. We watch more youtube and amazon prime content now and it seems that Tivo now has that integrated in.

From what I can tell, I can get two 6 tuner Roamio Plus boxes with one Tivo Mini and have the same thing as I have now (actually I would get 4 more tuners that way).

There is one, possible two cons that I know of and that is a solution via the Tivo interface to watch my ripped DVD's and Blu Ray movies. It doesn't appear that they currently have a built in application that can do that. If they did, I think I wouldn't hesitate getting it.

The thing that I am not sure about is the subscription service. I know there are 3 subscription service plans: monthly, annually or lifetime. I hate the thought of paying monthly for basically the guide service, so I am willing to pay the lifetime service. However, I was wondering what the pros and cons were by going with the lifetime service. It seems like it would pay for itself after the third year, so I think that would be the better path. However, I just really started looking into this.

Does anyone have any advice for me?

Thanks,
Chuck

Lifetime is only worth it if you don't mind some basic programming and changing hard drives, as the TiVo drive will fail within four years in all likelihood. Head over to tivocommunity.com and read up on changing drives, and if that suits you. I've had four-five TiVo drives go bad in 10 years

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by 7up

Wait until after CES next month before making any decisions. As of today, its not really a legitimate contender to Tivo, but if Tablo cleans up their client software which they've promised to do and decides to support SiliconDust network tuners, it could be a real option.

Speaking of CES, it's been awfully quiet at Google. Always had hope something would appear for us old Sage faithful....