Any 4K capture devices on the horizon?

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

The most 'interesting' options may actually be a commercial DVR product based on SageTV. It being open source does make this a real possibility.

Do you mean a TiVo-like product?

[Monedeath]

Originally Posted by Wayneb

I think everyone would like to see better 1080p quality but if you have a big TV or a projector 4K will be highly desirable. The 4K I have captured off of FTA satellite feeds looks great.

...or if you spend much of your viewing time less than 3 feet away from the screen (PC Gamers primarily). There are 4k computer games out there already.

[wayner]

I sit about 10' away from an 80" TV so I think I would notice the difference. The problem is that replacing my 80" HD set with an 80" (or bigger - you can't go smaller!) 4K set is seriously expensive. The second problem is where do I put the existing 80" set? In the past I have cascaded my main TV down to bedroom/kitchen, etc when I got a new main TV but there aren't too many places where you can put an 80" screen.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by Monedeath

They'd have to get permission from Google first, the people contributing on GitHub who were paying attention can attest to this, it may be open source, and they will credit contributors, but Google still controls the code for commercial purposes.

I'd have to check, but I'm pretty sure the existing license grants permission to distribute and sell derivative works - in any case, this would actually be selling hardware that is using the sagetv software, plus some proprietary recording and playback bits, which, due to the plugin nature of the core, could be done separate from the actual sagetv software, and maintain their security.

Imagine if SiliconDust was just starting to scheme on their HDHR DVR right now - might they had considered adapting SageTV to it, instead of rolling their own?

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by wayner

... where do I put the existing 80" set?...

I'll let you "store" it at my house.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by MattHelm

I'll let you "store" it at my house.

I was waiting for someone to make that sort of an offer. I bet you even wouldn't charge much of a storage fee either!

[wayner]

Bringing this back to life. Any 4K capture devices on the horizon at a reasonable price so that we could integrate 4K TV content into SageTV? Surely capturing 4K/2160p in 2017 should be no harder/expensive than capturing HD/1080i in 2008 when the HD-PVR was released.

There seems to be a product by AverMedia but I don't know if it is for sale.

[wayner]

Well - it looks like there may be one product that is supposed to ship this week. $500 and it can capture 4K30p. https://www.epiphan.com/products/avio-4k/

Not sure how you would strip out the HDCP.

[stanger89]

I assume it's a software encoder since it says it needs an i7 6770k....

Nope, it doesn't:
https://www.epiphan.com/products/avio-4k/faq/
Does AV.io 4K use frame compression when capturing video content?

No, AV.io 4K sends uncompressed video to the capture computer.

I don't know about software support, but given the above, I think the Decklink Mini Recorder 4K would be a better option since it's PCIe, should be more reliable. It also supports HDMI 2.0a, so HDR metadata. It's also a lot cheaper.

[wayner]

Interesting - but I guess you would have to strip the HDCP between your cable box and the Decklink? Watching a review of it this device also captures uncompressed. If an iPhone has been able to compress 4K video on the fly since 2015 why can't this device?

[stanger89]

Well the Decklink is made for content creation, where realtime hardware compression would be disastrous to quality.

[wayner]

So that brings me back to my original premise - why no 4K capture for TV recording purposes? Lack of content? Technological hurdles? Lack of interest as we are moving to a streaming paradigm?

[stanger89]

I'd guess lack of interest, what's actually out there to "record" in 4K? I don't have any 4K from my provider. DirecTV's got a channel, but I'd guess 99% of people with 4K DTV just record it with the DVR, on top of that is there anything on there worth recording?

I gave up on recording stuff to save a long time ago, the quality just isn't there. What's 4K DTV like, Blu-ray quality?

[wayner]

There is more 4K content coming out all of the time. This is the second season for which all Toronto Blue Jays home games will be in 4K. Some of the hockey and basketball games are in 4K as well. Why wouldn't you want to watch everything in 4K, just as one would prefer HD over SD.

Here in this part of Canada both the cable (Rogers) and sat/phone company (Bell) offer 4K channels, at least when it comes to sports. They also own the two main cable sports networks, and also own the teams, at least the MLB, NBA and NHL (Leafs) teams.

[stanger89]

I don't think there's anything in the US. DirecTV has one channel, but it's all the fluff documentary/filler stuff like the really early days of HD. Looks like Dish is advertising 4K, not sure what they've got. None of the cable companies around here have 4K channels, and I haven't heard of any other cable companies having anything.

Streaming services have 4K, but it doesn't look any better than Blu-ray from what I've seen. Where I am, the only source of "worthy" 4K content is UHD Blu-ray, and even then it's not the resolution that's the improvement.

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by wayner

... Surely capturing 4K/2160p in 2017 should be no harder/expensive than capturing HD/1080i in 2008 when the HD-PVR was released ...

I think what has greatly added to the challenge has been the current paradigms of HDMI, versus component capture options from circa '08. That's part of the reason why the HD-PVR is so much easier to use than a Colossus 2 ...

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by wayner

There is more 4K content coming out all of the time ...
Here in this part of Canada both the cable (Rogers) and sat/phone company (Bell) offer 4K channels, at least when it comes to sports. They also own the two main cable sports networks, and also own the teams, at least the MLB, NBA and NHL (Leafs) teams.

Originally Posted by stanger89

I don't think there's anything in the US. DirecTV has one channel, but it's all the fluff documentary/filler stuff like the really early days of HD ...

I'm holding out hope that sports will drive more 4K content and demand. I'm a fan of two pro sports teams that are owned by or own their sports networks: NY Rangers and Mets. I'd be shocked if MSG is not doing Knicks and Rangers games in 4K by 2018-19.

DirecTV does offer pay-per-view 4K movies, though I think they are still priced pretty high. In addition to their "fluff" 4K channel they have a Live 4K channel that airs events. In addition to things like concerts and the Rose Parade they have aired NBA games (it appears that the Denver Nuggets must broadcast most, if not all of their home games in 4K), MLB broadcasts of MLBTV's national game of the week, and enhanced and supplemental coverage of golf major championships. They actually had two 4K channels of Masters coverage last month.

As a sports fan, I'm biased, but also hopeful that there will soon be plenty of live 4K broadcasts available. I think if the YES Network goes 4K for Yankees (which is inevitable) and Nets, we will soon get 4K NESN for Boston-area teams. ESPN will not be far behind with 4K SEC Network during football season, and then we'll get 4K NBCSN for soccer, and eventually 4K who-knows-what from Fox Sports Net ...

[Fuzzy]

Bear in mind, that it is only be accident (or oversight) that we can even capture most of the regular HD content we are getting today. There should be no expectation that future technology also makes copying so easy.

[wayner]

But we are capturing 1080i/720p not just from component, but also from HDMI with devices like the BM-1000 that strip or ignore HDCP. Once the HDCP is stripped then you are purely down to an encoding issue, are you not? Maybe Unisheen will come out with a 4K version of this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MPEG...76be8976&tpp=1

It appears the EnterNoEscape and others have these types of devices working in Sage. No we just need to see the same thing in 4K.

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by wayner

But we are capturing 1080i/720p not just from component, but also from HDMI with devices like the BM-1000 that strip or ignore HDCP ...

I think that was Fuzzy's point: the fact that you are able to do HDMI captures represents a hole that content providers want to plug. The Colossus 2 is the third HDMI 1080p capture device I tried. The other two did not perform as well as an HD-PVR, and even at that you still and probably always will have to deal with a stripper, and possibly a splitter as well, depending on your setup.

I've replaced two fairly-new receivers (one less than one year old) to accommodate HDMI 2.0 for 4K, but who knows how long until 2.3b or 3.0 comes along and starts producing "content unavailable" messages on my screen? It's the whole HDMI thing. At the end of the day it will just be like navigating an obstacle course just to be able to record as-broadcast, multi-audio-channel streams.

I'm with you on this: I agree there should be options, and it should not be this complex, but I think it's always going to be an uphill climb dealing with HDMI capabilities ...