Upgrade from Sage V6 to V9 because of EPG shutdown

[photon]

I would like all my existing sage v6 recordings to appear in an upgrade to Version 9.

Currently my Sage V6 windows Server 2008 install uses Comskip, HDhomeRun ATSC tuners and the Sage MC user interface.

I think all I have to do is install V7.1.9 on top of my existing v6 then install the v9 windows installer on top of v7.1.9.

Are these instructions taken from my old printed manual still correct? Anything I need to do between version installs?

"Upgrading to a Newer Version

If you are already using SageTV and wish to install a newer version, there are three basic steps to follow:

1. Exit SageTV – Before installing a new version, you must first exit SageTV or SageTVClient completely; do not just put it to sleep. See Exiting SageTV for exiting the UI portion. Note: If you are using service mode, the installer will stop the service automatically; however, you will still need to close the UI before running the installer.

2. Install the New Version – Once SageTV is no longer running, simply run the new installer. The installation process will automatically uninstall the previous version of SageTV, so there is no need to manually uninstall the old version first, unless you are using Windows Home Server, in which case you should uninstall the old version of SageTV before running the SageTV for WHS installer. Important: Make sure the installer uses the same destination folder that the previous version used. Usually, the installer will detect this folder automatically, but be sure to check that it is correct.

3. Start SageTV – After the installation process is complete, you may restart SageTV and continue using it as before. "

[Narflex]

That *should* work just fine. But I would definitely backup the entire SageTV folder before doing an upgrade so in the worst case you can then just uninstall SageTV completely, reinstall V6, copy back the entire folder and then be back where you were.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Narflex

That *should* work just fine. But I would definitely backup the entire SageTV folder before doing an upgrade so in the worst case you can then just uninstall SageTV completely, reinstall V6, copy back the entire folder and then be back where you were.

Thank you. Since my only interest is retaining the existing TV recordings so they appear in V9, is there a sub set of files or folders I could retain and delete the rest before doing the Upgrade to v7 then v9? The existing Sage TV folder is 621MB which seems overly large considering the v9 installer is only 87MB

I can reinstall tuners and the like after the upgrade and configure everything else from scratch. I'll definitely backup the entire folder before starting to upgrade.

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by photon

Thank you. Since my only interest is retaining the existing TV recordings so they appear in V9, is there a sub set of files or folders I could retain and delete the rest before doing the Upgrade to v7 then v9? The existing Sage TV folder is 621MB which seems overly large considering the v9 installer is only 87MB

I can reinstall tuners and the like after the upgrade and configure everything else from scratch. I'll definitely backup the entire folder before starting to upgrade.

The most critical file to backup is the wiz.bin. However, I would still recommend backing up the entire SageTV folder AND doing a complete image backup of your boot drive. Once you are satisfied that the upgraded install is working, you can always go back and delete your backups to save space.

However, I'm surprised that you are so worried about space - 621MB of storage space is basically nothing for a media PC. Most TV recordings are several GB's in size.

[wnjj]

Originally Posted by Tiki

The most critical file to backup is the wiz.bin. However, I would still recommend backing up the entire SageTV folder AND doing a complete image backup of your boot drive. Once you are satisfied that the upgraded install is working, you can always go back and delete your backups to save space.

However, I'm surprised that you are so worried about space - 621MB of storage space is basically nothing for a media PC. Most TV recordings are several GB's in size.

I don't think he's worried about space but rather that the V9 installer won't "replace" everything he currently has in the SageTV install path.

wiz.bin is the key for show history, favorites, etc., along with the recorded files themselves (which are outside of the install path).

[valnar]

Yeah, that EPG note has me worried too. My Sage 7 installation is tweaked to the hilt. I don't even remember all the things I changed between codecs, plugins, the registry, comskip settings, USB-UIRT, HDHR and HD-PVR settings. Hopefully a direct install of 9 over the top will work.

On the off chance the Sage Gods improve v9 even more, I'll wait until it's closer to July before I try.

[photon]

Originally Posted by wnjj

I don't think he's worried about space but rather that the V9 installer won't "replace" everything he currently has in the SageTV install path.

wiz.bin is the key for show history, favorites, etc., along with the recorded files themselves (which are outside of the install path).

Thank you! After backing up everything I'll try uninstall and deleting everything except wiz.bin and the client folder then do the upgrade. Hopefully my shows will be there when done.

[jusjoken]

Originally Posted by photon

Thank you! After backing up everything I'll try uninstall and deleting everything except wiz.bin and the client folder then do the upgrade. Hopefully my shows will be there when done.

if you delete everything else that includes the sage properties and thats fine just remember you will need to add import and recording folders so sage can find the actual media files.

k

[photon]

Originally Posted by Tiki

However, I'm surprised that you are so worried about space - 621MB of storage space is basically nothing for a media PC. Most TV recordings are several GB's in size.

Just housekeeping. Based on the installer size it seems that 500MB or so is wasted space. Sage has evolved and a lot of what is in those directories may no longer be needed. While upgrading is the easiest and safest time to clean out what isn't needed. The OS drive where Sage TV resides is a 250 GB SSD and no data of any kind or recordings are saved there. All my media and recordings are in the Stablebit Drive pool which is safe and has tons of space.

[photon]

Originally Posted by jusjoken

if you delete everything else that includes the sage properties and thats fine just remember you will need to add import and recording folders so sage can find the actual media files.

k

Thank you. It makes for a clean install. I can quickly set the folder paths again I think. As well as the recording space usage restrictions. I'll document all of this before I begin.

[VCRUser]

I will also likely need to move from 6 to 9. Are there instructions for getting the following things (or reasonable facsimiles) set up once in 9:

Malore menus
Web interface
USB-uirt

and how to set up the replacement Schedules Direct EPG?

I've had everything working just as I like it for so long in 6 that the update will be traumatic - don't want to miss any recordings, favorites, settings, tuners....

[photon]

Originally Posted by VCRUser

I will also likely need to move from 6 to 9. Are there instructions for getting the following things (or reasonable facsimiles) set up once in 9:

Malore menus
Web interface
USB-uirt

and how to set up the replacement Schedules Direct EPG?

I've had everything working just as I like it for so long in 6 that the update will be traumatic - don't want to miss any recordings, favorites, settings, tuners....

As I understand it v9 is just v7 built with open source code. Thus the pdf manual for v7 should help a lot. I'm not familiar with the 3 items you want to setup but the plugin system in V7 is great. Just locate the feature you want in the list and choose it. Lots of things install and just work. I still had to search the forums to figure out how to make some of them work though.

I feel you on how traumatic this change will be. I wish somebody would develop a patch for V6 so it can use the SD EPG data source but I doubt that will happen. I tried to change to V7 before. While there is a lot to like about v7 it's tedious to use with any of the user interfaces available at the time I tried it in 2014. A huge increase in number of button presses required. I went back to v6 because there wasn't a visually and functionally simple user interface available. V7 menu selection highlighting was a major issue. Only part of what is highlighted can you tell is highlighted so the experience varied based on the size of what is highlighted. Pile on to that, most used functions are hidden under the options button so you have to keep trying the options button with different screen areas highlighted to find the functions you need then scroll through the options list because they don't all fit in a single screen. V7 is not designed for ease of use. At least two button presses when navigating the menus to do what Sage MC does in one and the replacement user interfaces available at the time didn't fix this.

Screen real estate is wasted on large graphics instead of displaying the functions you use most on screen. The TV is big the graphics can be small please. I'm just trying to play media not play with menus all day because they can be made to look like media. I prefer a scrolling list format for the media which displays 7 media items or more per screen with full titles visible prior to highlighting and a list of relevant options to the side of the listing. Options button only needed for rarely used functions such as turning off comskip or changing closed caption settings. Non TV functions typically are totally ignored so playing music was an incredibly tedious process and lacked features that Sage MC has on v6. (Or they are so well hidden as to not exist) The Sage MC interface exists for v7 but major functions don't work and there was nobody developing it to fix it so it works. It was not a viable UI in V7. I'll build a replacement sage setup now on separate hardware to learn and try out the various user interfaces again. If I'm still struggling with a poor user experience I may not switch to using v9 on my production server until there is no choice because EPG stopped working. I don't think there exists yet a fully developed user interface for v7 or v9 that can compete with the ease of use of the Sage MC but I'll be looking at the new ones that have appeared since 2014. Once setup anybody could operate Sage MC UI the first time they saw it without needing a tutorial. That is the experience I want.

I'm extremely thankful for the developers who are working so hard on Sage TV since the sale to Google. Without them developing open source version, features and user interfaces Sage would die or see a huge reduction of users July 1. I don't think I can live without Sage TV and will gladly pay for EPG data even if I do have to press buttons twice or more to do what I can do now in a single press. It's the best DVR in existence and while other media functions are neglected at least all of my media can be played all in one UI from any TV in the house via HD300s. Looks like I wrote a book. Sorry.

[photon]

Originally Posted by VCRUser

I will also likely need to move from 6 to 9. Are there instructions for getting the following things (or reasonable facsimiles) set up once in 9:

Malore menus
Web interface
USB-uirt

and how to set up the replacement Schedules Direct EPG?

I haven't done it but I found the Instructions for SD EPG setup on V9 here:
https://github.com/google/sagetv/wik...rect-EPG-(BETA)

[graywolf]

I'm just trying to play media not play with menus all day because they can be made to look like media. I prefer a scrolling list format for the media which displays 7 media items or more per screen with full titles visible prior to highlighting and a list of relevant options to the side of the listing.

That has been the long delay in my moving from SageTV 6. WAF just likes the simplicity of the V6 UI. Whereas I like some of the features/configurations that is available in Gemstone (especially configuring of menus, multple sort levels).

In the recording listing, WAF likes the show info on the top instead of the side since that gives the Show Title/Episode names more room to be seen. Likes the simple list, don't need/want fanart.

Would be nice if someone could make a "V6 type" Gemstone View/Flow.

If not, I might just need to set the HD200/HD300s to use the V6 STV and then for the plugin & other maintenace, remote to SageTV server and run/setup using the V7 STV

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by graywolf

That has been the long delay in my moving from SageTV 6. WAF just likes the simplicity of the V6 UI. Whereas I like some of the features/configurations that is available in Gemstone (especially configuring of menus, multple sort levels).

In the recording listing, WAF likes the show info on the top instead of the side since that gives the Show Title/Episode names more room to be seen. Likes the simple list, don't need/want fanart.

Would be nice if someone could make a "V6 type" Gemstone View/Flow.

If not, I might just need to set the HD200/HD300s to use the V6 STV and then for the plugin & other maintenace, remote to SageTV server and run/setup using the V7 STV

Isn't the SageTV 6 UI (stv) a part of the v7/v9 install?

[wnjj]

Originally Posted by stuckless

Isn't the SageTV 6 UI (stv) a part of the v7/v9 install?

The V6 stv is actually called SageTV3.xml. It's what I've been running on V7 for exactly all of the reasons photon listed above. The V7 stv is pretty, but terribly clumsy to use.

I think I can still run the V3 stv on V9 but the Windows installer purposely left the V3 stv out of it so it has to be manually added from the V7 install.

There are several users I have seen post in the past with the same opinion; no doubt there many more who don't come to the forums. Poor UI design is one of my biggest pet peeves so I wil not use something I find difficult unless I have to.

[stuckless]

Originally Posted by wnjj

The V6 stv is actually called SageTV3.xml. It's what I've been running on V7 for exactly all of the reasons above. The V7 stv is pretty, but terribly clumsy to use.

I think I can still run the V3 stv on V9 but the Windows installer purposely left the V3 stv out of it so it has to be manually added from the V7 install.

There are several users I have seen post in the past with the same opinion; no doubt there many more who don't come to the forums. Poor UI design is one of my biggest pet peeves so I wil not use something I find difficult unless I have to.

I think the goal is to have the older STVs made available as plugins... I might actually do that this weekend... since doing that would make is easy for someone to use the older STVs (they just won't get the full benefits of other S9 plugins, etc)

[stuckless]

This is how I feel when I see the comments about refusing (or reluctantly) to change/update to v9

http://xkcd.com/1782/

[Narflex]

And I would strongly recommend just doing an upgrade rather than a full reinstall. I've never done a reinstall of SageTV (except when switching operating systems) in the past 14 years. If you're worried about what space it's using, just sort that directory by file size and see what's big and extra. I have a couple hundred MB Wiz.bin file (which means my Wiz.bak is also that big).

And as Sean mentioned, you can still use the V6 UI with V9...just make a copy of the STVs\SageTV3 folder and then load up that STV after you've installed V9 (because by default, I think it will switch you over to the V7 STV when you first install it).

[VCRUser]

Originally Posted by stuckless

I think the goal is to have the older STVs made available as plugins... I might actually do that this weekend... since doing that would make is easy for someone to use the older STVs (they just won't get the full benefits of other S9 plugins, etc)

That sounds great; is there a list (or could there be a list) of S9 plugins, noting which depend on which STVs? I prefer the text-only interface of the S6 interface, and from the comments here, it seems that the S7 interface wouldn't be to my liking. So it would be good to know what combinations play nicely together.