What is the next generation of client - can we create the HD-400?

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by Wayneb

I don't expect there to ever be a HD400 developed but would donate to a crowd funded project just like I did for the Mini client, I don't think there are enough interested people left for it ever to become a reality.

I, too, would donate to that cause.

While I am here <chuckle>: TABLO is my preferred backup to SageTV. (I do not have nor ever did have cable or satellite service.) In fact, I am using it more and more frequently for playback... primarily because of the dynamic images during fast forward/reverse. Nevertheless, SageTV is still heads (towers) over all similar programs -- for example, the CC control, developed over ten years ago, is far superior to all others.

[SteveW]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

Have you tried installing the miniclient ? ... is a full client.

Miniclient I believe is not capable of playing the ripped DVDs and Blurays like the actual Sage clients can. It only does MKV’s, etc. It’s why I stayed with the the HD300s.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by RonBoyd

I, too, would donate to that cause.

While I am here <chuckle>: TABLO is my preferred backup to SageTV. (I do not have nor ever did have cable or satellite service.) In fact, I am using it more and more frequently for playback... primarily because of the dynamic images during fast forward/reverse. Nevertheless, SageTV is still heads (towers) over all similar programs -- for example, the CC control, developed over ten years ago, is far superior to all others.

CC = closed caption? In 15 years I don’t think I’ve ever used it. What must the source be to record captions, OTA?

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

CC = closed caption? In 15 years I don’t think I’ve ever used it. What must the source be to record captions, OTA?

Yes, Closed Captioning. (I apologize, I should have not abbreviated.)

I believe there is a FCC regulation that requires all broadcast (including OTA) to include CC -- it, however, could be the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Anyway, we watch a lot of British, Irish, Welsh, Australian shows and you know what they say about being separated by a common language. Well, that and my ears have gotten old along with the rest of me. I find that quite often the background music is louder than the dialog (the downside of Surround Sound) and I would sometimes miss important parts if not for CC.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by RonBoyd

Yes, Closed Captioning. (I apologize, I should have not abbreviated.)

I believe there is a FCC regulation that requires all broadcast (including OTA) to include CC -- it, however, could be the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Anyway, we watch a lot of British, Irish, Welsh, Australian shows and you know what they say about being separated by a common language. Well, that and my ears have gotten old along with the rest of me. I find that quite often the background music is louder than the dialog (the downside of Surround Sound) and I would sometimes miss important parts if not for CC.

Yup, I hear you there. However, my source is cable set top box and satellite set top box. Both feeding Hauppauge tuners, from the component analog hole, which does not include a CC stream. Where are you getting CC from?

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

CC = closed caption? In 15 years I don’t think I’ve ever used it. What must the source be to record captions, OTA?

I get Closed Captions from the HDHR Prime (FiOS) and HDHR Quatro (OTA).

Sources that use devices like the HDPVR1/HDPVR2, as tvmaster2 mentions, cannot provide closed caption data.

We use CC all the time because our house tends to be noisy with people and sometimes it's hard to hear all the dialog.

--John

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Yup, I hear you there. However, my source is cable set top box and satellite set top box. Both feeding Hauppauge tuners, from the component analog hole, which does not include a CC stream. Where are you getting CC from?

I am unfamiliar with either device. (Again, I have never subscribed to Cable/Satellite.) Wait! In our RV, sometimes we have to use the Campground's Cable/Satellite feed and CC is always available without special equipment -- cable directly into the TV.

For obvious reasons, the CC function can be turned Off or On and, in fact, the default is to be turned off. Have you looked for it in the "Settings" menu of your devices (including the TV)?

[KryptoNyte]

Originally Posted by wnjj

This right here is exactly why I dislike the idea of a "generic" box that depends upon forces outside our control. There's enough already enough effort to make sure Windows or Linux updates don't break the server. I love how the HDxxx boxes just do the same thing day in and day out, years on end.

When I read the complaints of device X works, device Y used to until "something changed", try this player and that plus Stuckless' own frustration with the ever changing demands placed on Android devs I'm happy to have no part of that.

I suppose it helps that I have no need for 4k and have yet to try streaming. So for this old video Luddite, extenders will work for quite some time.

It is amazing to see the developers of virtually any piece of hardware/software today in a seemingly endless state of chasing their tales to keep up with whatever was working yesterday, but is mysteriously broke today. The disconnect of the SageTV extender is a beautiful thing, even with it's age.

Most consumer level development has now adopted the view that everything must be in a constant state of flux, and anything that's more than a couple months old is trash, and the guise of "security concern" is meant to push the user into the routine of constant upgrades, which continually shortens the cycle. Innovation has given way to charging the consumer for the tail chasing it seems.

The developers that are actually out there busting their balls every day ... I don't know how they even make it happen any more.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by RonBoyd

I am unfamiliar with either device. (Again, I have never subscribed to Cable/Satellite.) Wait! In our RV, sometimes we have to use the Campground's Cable/Satellite feed and CC is always available without special equipment -- cable directly into the TV.

For obvious reasons, the CC function can be turned Off or On and, in fact, the default is to be turned off. Have you looked for it in the "Settings" menu of your devices (including the TV)?

Oh, sure, I can manually enable captions on either of THOSE boxes, but I was wondering how people record shows WITH a CC stream embedded in it. And I have a HDHomerun Duo, but when I enable captions in Sage when one of those channels is active, still no captions. Do I need a plugin?

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

It is amazing to see the developers of virtually any piece of hardware/software today in a seemingly endless state of chasing their tales to keep up with whatever was working yesterday, but is mysteriously broke today. The disconnect of the SageTV extender is a beautiful thing, even with it's age.

Most consumer level development has now adopted the view that everything must be in a constant state of flux, and anything that's more than a couple months old is trash, and the guise of "security concern" is meant to push the user into the routine of constant upgrades, which continually shortens the cycle. Innovation has given way to charging the consumer for the tail chasing it seems.

The developers that are actually out there busting their balls every day ... I don't know how they even make it happen any more.

Precisely the reason I still use Sage/TiVo. I’m so done with streaming, casting, api’s that break, daily software updates, etc., etc. and you still have to sit thru commercials.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by jpwegas

I get Closed Captions from the HDHR Prime (FiOS) and HDHR Quatro (OTA).

Sources that use devices like the HDPVR1/HDPVR2, as tvmaster2 mentions, cannot provide closed caption data.

We use CC all the time because our house tends to be noisy with people and sometimes it's hard to hear all the dialog.

--John

Do you use CC while in Sage somehow? Even when watching a HDHomerun channel, captions only work in their app. I’ve never been able to get them to work in SageTV

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Do you use CC while in Sage somehow? Even when watching a HDHomerun channel, captions only work in their app. I’ve never been able to get them to work in SageTV

The easy way to get CC is if you use Comskip and have Comskip extract the CC when it checking for commercials.

Just add this to ini ...

output_srt=1

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Oh, sure, I can manually enable captions on either of THOSE boxes, but I was wondering how people record shows WITH a CC stream embedded in it. And I have a HDHomerun Duo, but when I enable captions in Sage when one of those channels is active, still no captions. Do I need a plugin?

Interesting question. I don't know because I have never thought about it. I simple record the show (OTA remember) and when played back with SageTV (either at the Server or with HD300) the CC is just there. (Of course, you have to turn CC on in SageTV for playback.)

When a show is recorded SageTV makes four files -- .edl, .incommercial, .mpg, and .mpg.properties. I suspect the CC data is in one of those. I have not tried playback of the .MPG file with anything other than SageTV so can't comment on that. Nor have I looked at the metadata.

I will spend some time on this tomorrow as now I am curious why it doesn't work for you.

Bottom line is I don't remember doing anything special to make STV record the CC data -- it has been that way since day one over ten years ago. I am pretty sure it was not a Plugin, however.

[gclayto]

If I remember correctly. Closed captioning is embedded in the video file by the HDHomeRun and most other capture devices. The codecs used by Android and the miniclient cannot extract it. If you use an HD200 or HD300 and turn on CC they will show as expected.

Stuckless never used the CC function and did not put the time in to make it work. I always thought that was the miniclient's greatest fault. Some of my family has some genetic hearing loss and we depend on the CC function. That is why I still use the HD300's.

If someone with the knowledge and capability to get the codec to decode the CC portion of the miniclient, that would be a huge contribution to the community.

For more details look at this thread: https://forums.sagetv.com/forums/sho...closed+caption

[graywolf]

I know CC depends upon many things.
1. The device you are getting the show from includes CC
2. The capture device needs to also be able to record it.

In my instance, I have DirecTV box (SD) and HVR1600 and I get CC.
If I recall from questions I posted before, most(all?) HDMI devices wouldn't capture the CC (I could be wrong).

You could try playing a recording via vlc and see if there is closed caption or not.

[Wayneb]

Originally Posted by graywolf

I know CC depends upon many things.
1. The device you are getting the show from includes CC
2. The capture device needs to also be able to record it.

In my instance, I have DirecTV box (SD) and HVR1600 and I get CC.
If I recall from questions I posted before, most(all?) HDMI devices wouldn't capture the CC (I could be wrong).

You could try playing a recording via vlc and see if there is closed caption or not.

My HDPVR didn't record CC, old SD analog systems used line 21 for the captions and that was why it worked. I notice on OTA broadcasts here in L.A. the captions don't always agree with what is being said.

Maybe in some far off distance future will will have systems that are able to create on the fly captions from audio files.

[RonBoyd]

Originally Posted by RonBoyd

I will spend some time on this tomorrow as now I am curious why it doesn't work for you.

I don't know. The recorded file plays Closed Captioning back fine with the SageTV Player (Server or Client). I cannot get them to show up playing the file with VLC -- I cannot get any of the Microsoft Media players to even open the file. PLEX, on the other hand, plays back exactly like SageTV (except for formatting). I could not figure out how to activate CC in the Fire and Shield SageTV Apps.

FWIW, recording the same program with other programs -- TABLO or HDHomeRun, for instance -- handle the CC as expected. Unfortunately, TABLO saves the file in a proprietary format on a hard drive that is not easily accessed. There is, however, a quite complicated translation process that can convert the file to MPG format but that is beyond my pain tolerance today. <chuckle>

Thus, I give up.

EMBY has been trying for a year (or so) to get a handle on Closed Captioning.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by KryptoNyte

Most consumer level development has now adopted the view that everything must be in a constant state of flux, and anything that's more than a couple months old is trash, and the guise of "security concern" is meant to push the user into the routine of constant upgrades, which continually shortens the cycle. Innovation has given way to charging the consumer for the tail chasing it seems.

As pioneered by Mr. Bill Gates and the constant tinkering with first Windows and later all applications within the MS Office Suite....

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Do you use CC while in Sage somehow? Even when watching a HDHomerun channel, captions only work in their app. I’ve never been able to get them to work in SageTV

We use HD300s at the TVs. When a show is playing I hit Enter to bring up the program menu and then select "Captions (Off)" to "Captions (CC1)".

Almost all of the shows that we capture using the HDHR Prime and Quatro have a CC stream included. (But not the shows we record using the HDPVR2). No special extraction is needed if you are using an HD300 extender. Not sure if that is needed if you are using a PC Client. Embedded CC data will not appear on the Android mini client player, but if you extract the embedded CC data into .srt files it should display them.

--John

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by gclayto

If someone with the knowledge and capability to get the codec to decode the CC portion of the miniclient, that would be a huge contribution to the community.

The miniclient will show the CC if you extract the embedded CC data into .srt files as nyplayer mentioned above.

However, to enable them when playing the show instead of selecting the "Captions" option there is a "Subtitles" option you have to select.

--John