embarrassed by sage over the weekend

[JUC]

well, not really embarrassed but definately upset. Before I begin, this is kind of another rant and rave thread but beware, this may happen to you! I had a few friends over last weekend that were pretty amazed at Sage's performance (good job sage, you won my friends over in terms of PVR). As I was giving them the pitch of how sage can do this, sage can do that a friend wanted to put in a new CD she had just bought. Oh, well Sage CANT do that. I am using sage at my HTPC on a SDTV so the quality of text is not that good ouside of Sage. This requires me to boot up my laptop, use UltraVNC to control my HTPC, start up media player or musicmatch or whatever to just get a damn CD to play. Strike One for Sage with my friends. Later in the day as we were getting ready to go for a drive, they wanted me to burn a CD so we could listen to it (they were amazed at my 80 gig collection). Well I said, Sage Can't do that. Wouldn't it be nice to be viewing an album in sage and just click 'burn' said my friends...you bet I replied and then I booted up my laptop, used ultraVNC to access my HTPC (while having to minimize sage BTW-so if we were watching TV forget about it) start up Nero and do that whole thing. What a pain they said. Strike Two. A little embarrassed at this point, i just nodded. Even later in the day, my fiance came home with a new CD she had just bought (I spend way too much money on music) Cool I thought. Let's rip it to the HD and listen to it throught sage she said. Oh wait, Sage can't do that. I coudn't even play the CD without going throught the whole above process let alone rip it to my HD. Sure would be nice to have a rip function said my fiance AND my friends. Strike three. So, the moral of this completely true story is...drumroll please (any everybody already knows this but after my weekend I needed to write it down) Sage is a GREAT PVR application. My friends loved the IR recording features, the FF/RR/pausing of live TV. The way Sage chategorized the recordings...even the weather suite. BUT, sage really Sucks a big one at everything else that it Can't do in terms of expandability. Now, with the advent of other software on the market that Can do almost all of these things quite well, it is getting harder and harder for me to keep selling and promoting sage to my friends. I mean, months of no studio, months of 'great things are coming but no new releases is just getting tired. Now to conclude this extremely long post that I am sorry for...Sage I love you, I am just not in love with you the same way I was when I purchased you and you told me you would change for the better. you're the same sage as you were this past spring. If anyone is working on any plug-ins for the feature's that I have referrenced let me know so I can stop making excuses to my friends about the lack of add-ons that are currently offered. That's it , I'm done. As for now, when my friends come over I think I will just leave my HTPC off to avoid embarrasment. JUCMAN OUT!

[ErsatzTom]

Heh. There is another thread in which people are complaining that sage shouldn't include ANY music capabilities. Can't please everyone. Seriously, it would be great if Sage could do all of the above and, I'm sure, eventually it will. In the mean time, if it is important to you (and it certainly sounds like it is in your case!) I know that many users have successfully integrated SageTV with other apps such as Medio or xlobby to fill in the feature gap. YMMV.

t

[JUC]

t, thanks for the rational reply. I was hoping that this would not start another flame war or sage bashing thread and I appreciate your sensible reply. I understand that sage can't please everyone and that my idea of an 'ideal' sage may not be others' or even Frey's for that matter. I am probably on the other end of the spectrum as the other die hard PVR enthusiasts. As for now, I am just planning on sitting by and hoping development turns towards other feature sets outside the PVR realm. Purchasing additional software just really isn't an option for me right now but may be down the road. I just wanted to tell the story that happened to me last weekend that is quite laughable (but still somewhat upsetting at the same time) given my friends responses and needs.
Thanks
JUC

[salsbst]

It just seems to me that there are two camps. One in which people believe that a single application should house all features of their HTPC and one that believes that everyone should stick close to their core competencies.

I'm with sticking with the core competencies camp. SageTV is never going to be a better DVD player than Zoomplayer, and it's never going to be a better music organizer/player than J River Media Center. It won't burn DVDs as well as Nero and it won't do word processing like StarOffice. My toaster will hopefully always be better at warming up frozen pizza.

Hopefully we can all agree that there will never be agreement on the full feature set for an HTPC. Therefore, I think it's best to pick a few things and do them well. The history of business teaches us over and over again that this is the case.

I believe that's what Jeff and Dan are doing with SageTV and SageStudio.

[ErsatzTom]

Xlobby is freeware if that helps.

t

[JUC]

I understand about the whole two camps argument and I do believe that Sage's core competency is PVR functionality (I can live with their DVD player though) and obviously this is where their main achievements have been. However, I do think that sage should 'pick a few things' other than PVR issues and at least attempt to do them. Maybe they will miss, but it's a step in the right direction. My ultimate dream (as I am sure you already know where I fall on this issue) is to have one application, preferably sage work for all my home entertainment needs. I don't need web browing, email, caller ID, or work processing-hopefully in a few years my toaster can do all this for me (lol) I think that including a CD player, ripping and burning options fall within the "Media Center Experience" that Sage is touting. Some of the other features may not. Anyway, once studio does come out and it will be possible to launch external applications (which nielm's stv can already do) it still will not be as seamless as it could be--which for me is the whole idea of the HTPC experience.
JUC

[salsbst]

My experience is pretty darned seamless with SageTV, J River Media Center and Zoomplayer. However, if you're not up for some heavy lifting with Girder, then it can be difficult to achieve seamlessness.

CD player? JRMC provides this along with a gazillion other features that I hope Frey doesn't try to duplicate because it would cost too much time and money.

ripping? I do that on a machine that isn't a home entertainment machine. Don't want to interrupt the home entertainment to rip a CD.

burning? ditto.

But, to each his own. I'm not attacking you, just discussing with you.

Except for one thing:

As for now, when my friends come over I think I will just leave my HTPC off to avoid embarrasment.

You've got to be kidding me.

[JUC]

yea I was just kidding around. I absolutely LOVE sage, don't get me wrong. It really has changed the way I watch TV (I sound like a salesman now). It was just the culmination of my friends openly noting sage's downfalls which I was already aware of, that prompted my post. Even my fiance is starting to talk about sage to others (which a huge leap in the WAF err. FAF!). About using external programs my only concern is that they may not be legible on my SDTV. The thing with ripping and burning, I just think it would be nice to be sifting through your albums in Sage then just hit the 'burn button' and that's it a couple minutes later you have a CD. I would use this more than the ripping feature though. I'm checking out the JRMC right now and am actually quite impressed at it seems to be fairly easy on the eyes. The whole girder thing is another issue for me unfortunately. any thoughts for a music program that has folder pics and burning capabilities? Salsbst, thanks for the friendly discourse-I am downloading the trial of JRMC as we speak

[JUC]

wait a minute, JRMC does CD ripping and burning too?---not bad. How are these features while using this on a TV?
JUC

[salsbst]

any thoughts for a music program that has folder pics and burning capabilities?

JRMC has those features. For use with a TV/remote control, you would use "Theater View" as I do.

[DFranch]

JUC,

I think what you are talking about should be another product entriely, kind of like Meedio essentials. Don't forget Frey has limited resources. I don't want to see them spread too thin adding extras. Plus it might raise the price for Sage if all the features you want are added (especially burning a CD). Hopefully once we get studio we can add functionallity as a community, kind of like weather modules etc...

[JUC]

I agree. I do want sage to keep improving upon their already outstanding PVR functions without spreading themselves too thin. And yes, with studio things should improve dramatically. I just happen to fall in the 'one app for all' camp just for the sake of making things simple. But, making it simple and getting a bunch of weak features isn't much of a trade-off either I guess. I am currently checking out other apps but i just wish I didn't have to. I only hope once studio comes out i am adept enought to contribute to the added functionality like mlbdude, malore, nielm and all the others out there that continue to improve upon sage's base stv.
JUC

[salsbst]

Originally posted by JUC
wait a minute, JRMC does CD ripping and burning too?---not bad. How are these features while using this on a TV?
JUC

Those features are not exposed in Theater View.

[stanger89]

However, can't JRMC be set to automatically rip/encode CDs on insertion w/o prompting?

[salsbst]

Maybe, I don't know. I have always used EAC for ripping

I'm very, very picky about the tagging and would never have thought to try ripping a CD on an HTPC.

[stanger89]

I would never have used anything but EAC either, but JRMC has a secure mode also, and YADB (which I used to hate) seems to have greatly improved. I've still got EAC for those really "tricky" disks.

[jptaz]

Nero offers an API for programmers to use to burn DVDs or CDs. So you would be able to Burn a DVD in SageTV via these APIs without reinventing the wheel or too many resources. This is one area that would be cool to compete with the Tivo DVD. This of course can probably be done by some one else once Studio is released, but it would probably require that some one pay for the license for Nero API. I could see this as a purchasable plugin option for SageTV. I would be happy to pay just for the burn to disk option without editing, but the ultimate would to match this with the Commercial skip program and an MPEG2 Author so that the DVD burned would be Standard DVD compliant. Maybe if SageTV worked on partnership with tmpgenc to make a special API for Frey to commuincate with and it would do what it does best, generate DVDs from a standard MPEG file including the ability to edit. So if as you watched a show you could mark chapters, commercial skip and then at the end select the file tell it to author and burn a DVD.

Enough advice for Frey for now.

John

[stanger89]

The Nero SDK is free, I downloaded it, you will, of course, need a copy of Nero for it to work though.

[JUC]

Yes, these are the features I'm talking about, I am assuming many do own copies of nero so maybe once studio is out someone will work this out...pretty please
JUC

[zz5]

You're embarrassed in front of your friends because of something your computer can or cannot do?!?!? Wow, that is weird. Are you some kind of nut?

Most of the stuff you complained about isn't even in SageTV. You should have read the feature list. You for some reason want Sage to burn CD's, but you already have a program to do that? Why are you trying to play CD's in Sage instead of in your DVD player? This is all weird. Do you consider this normal behavior? Did any of your friends look at your strange when you got all upset?