HD cards

[turak]

Are there any PCI cards that are able to recieve HD from a HD cable box or are they all over the air HD only? I know sagetv currently doesn't support HD , but it would be nice if in the near future I could hook a sagetv box up to my HD STB.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by turak

Are there any PCI cards that are able to recieve HD from a HD cable box or are they all over the air HD only?

No, it's impossible, at least it's impossible to capture uncompressed HD for less than about $5000.

That said there are two alternatives (sort of):

Fusion 3 QAM or Sasem USB HDTV can receive HD cable directly, however they are limited to unencrypted channels, most likely your locals.

Firewire, your cable co is required to offer a cable box with firewire out, with which you can record directly from the box, however you are again limited to those channels your cable company does not copy protect.

[flashbacck]

If you subscribe to the premium channels are they still encrypted in firewire?

[stanger89]

Probably, I don't think there's a definitive answer on that.

[turak]

Originally Posted by stanger89

No, it's impossible, at least it's impossible to capture uncompressed HD for less than about $5000.

That said there are two alternatives (sort of):

Fusion 3 QAM or Sasem USB HDTV can receive HD cable directly, however they are limited to unencrypted channels, most likely your locals.

Firewire, your cable co is required to offer a cable box with firewire out, with which you can record directly from the box, however you are again limited to those channels your cable company does not copy protect.

So basicly you are saying the only choices are DirectTV HDTivo or shitty 11 hour cable company DVR's? As if the cable companies already didn't have enough of a monopoly.

[stanger89]

Or a R-5000 HD or 169time mod.

[kny3twalker]

there's companies that will mod DirecTiVo HDs to have over half a TB
instead of the 250GB drive they have originally

and they provide the warranty instead of DirecTiVo

[edmc]

flashbacck> If you subscribe to the premium channels are they still encrypted in firewire?

stanger89> Probably, I don't think there's a definitive answer on that.

Earlier posts correctly identified the DViCo F3Q and Sasem OnAir solutions (although it should be pointed out that the Sasem OnAir solution is actually an external USB2 box, not a PCI card).

stranger89 also thru in that the QAM-capable DViCo and Sasem products will only decode the unencrypted (i.e. locals and other non-encrpted) stations. I've always gotten a kick out of this frequently stated complaint/limitation. Presuming your CableCo passes the local/non-premiums unencrypted (a big if for some folks), it's certainly on par with what you can get OTA :-). It is actually illegal for OTAs be encrypt their programming from what I understand (i.e. encrypted broadcast is not part of their license for the frequencies).

But you should definately explore your particular CableCo's practice. In the East SF Bay, Comcast carries the ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS locals in HD as well as ESPN-HD and FSN-HD (which preempts the encrypted INHD2) when local sports are being broadcast on the SD version of FSN. There's also a couple of SD QAM stations as well.

One place to check is over on AVS where they have a whole forum set aside to discuss HD reception issues. There's probably a thread for your locale there.

Now, as for the comment about receiving the content over Firewire from your CableCo or Sat box, that's a very big if. While there has been a hearing which may ultimately require your CableCo to carry OTA HD stations unencrypted, my understanding is that no ruling has been issued. And even when/if it gets issued in our favor, they'll probably be a time period allowed before CableCo's are required.

When you get to the FireWire step, however, there has apparently been no such ruling let alone hearing! Many folks have reported that even though a station is not encrypted on the Cable itself, when the CableCo box transmits the stream via FireWire, many find that link 5C protected! So you can bet that the encrypted premiums will be 5C protected.

What's this mean for the PC? Well sure, you can get a couple of solutions (DVHSCap is popular) to get the stream. FireBus purports to also be a HAVi solution which ultimately will allow your PC to control the Box via FireWire.

Unfortunately, it is currently impossible for a PC to legally be 5C capable. You can imagine why. What'll happen is the Box will try to 5C authenticate your PC and, failing that, refuse to send the PC the stream :-(.

And, as I said, even the non-encrypted HD locals tend to be 5C protected on the FireWire side of the box for lots of folks.

There is also an entire forum (HD Recording) over on AVS which heavily discusses such issues.

The situation is indeed troublesome. Fair Use is being narrowly protected these days. Not saying I necessarily disagree with the current state, but it is going to make it difficult for us to do the HTPC DVR thing for HD content in the near term. Probably is one reason the Sage folks haven't been jumping on the various requests for HD support unfortunately :-(.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by edmc

... Presuming your CableCo passes the local/non-premiums unencrypted (a big if for some folks), it's certainly on par with what you can get OTA :-). It is actually illegal for OTAs be encrypt their programming from what I understand (i.e. encrypted broadcast is not part of their license for the frequencies)....

...And, as I said, even the non-encrypted HD locals tend to be 5C protected on the FireWire side of the box for lots of folks...

...but it is going to make it difficult for us to do the HTPC DVR thing for HD content in the near term. Probably is one reason the Sage folks haven't been jumping on the various requests for HD support unfortunately :-(.

Why not support the OTA cards? I get all the HD I care about OTA except for ESPN-HD. I'm still hoping for OTA support (accessdtv).

[flashbacck]

I agree. So what if all the premium channels never make it to our HTPCs? OTA support would still be nice.

[edmc]

Once again I find myself talking past someone else's comments. Sorry 'bout that. I have nothing against OTA support. My issue is with folks who slam Cable/QAM support with statements like "you'll only get the unencrypted channels". My point is that's all you get OTA as well and, so, if OTA is worth doing, so is QAM - especially when you consider the large percentage of the general population unable to get OTA and totally reliant on Cable/QAM.

I rather respectfully submit that if Frey has time to support only one card that they choose one with the widest applicability (i.e. one that supports QAM as well as OTA).

[lovingHDTV]

I own an accessDTV, but I don't care which they support. As long as it is complete support. That is more that just scheduling a recording and DVR fuctionality.

I would like to see the ability to set up a keywords favorite like "All HDTV Premiere Action" and get all Action genre Premieres, broadcast in HDTV.

I'm also willing to go by baby steps. First control recording, playback and DVR functionality, then add it the "extras".

[Rob]

Originally Posted by edmc

...
I rather respectfully submit that if Frey has time to support only one card that they choose one with the widest applicability (i.e. one that supports QAM as well as OTA).

Works for me.

After seeing the potential (some channels worked perfectly in sage 1.4 with the alpha AccessDTV support), I'd buy the card that they support.

I'd also pay Sage if they charged a premium for the HD support. I guess actually it's digital tv support. Even when a channel is not broadcasting HD, it's much better than the dish satallite equivilant thru a pvr250.

[rotaryracer]

Originally Posted by edmc

I rather respectfully submit that if Frey has time to support only one card that they choose one with the widest applicability (i.e. one that supports QAM as well as OTA).

I believe the FusionHDTV3-T card supports OTA and QAM for a reasonable $149.....sure wish Sage would offer support....

[edmc]

Although not a fan of the stability of DViCo S/W, I believe there are now BDA drivers for the F3Q (and F3-T I guess). The API of BDA drivers is apparently what folks like Frey need short of getting proprietary API documentation from the card's manufacturer. Seems like an obvious choice.

Having had much more success with the Sasem OnAir box, however, I would hope a solution for the "other" QAM-capable product instead/as-well (though as far as I know, there are no BDA drivers yet for the Sasem box).

[ttriplett]

Originally Posted by edmc

Although not a fan of the stability of DViCo S/W, I believe there are now BDA drivers for the F3Q (and F3-T I guess). The API of BDA drivers is apparently what folks like Frey need short of getting proprietary API documentation from the card's manufacturer. Seems like an obvious choice.

Yes, and the ATI HDTV Wonder also now has BDA drivers. This should make it easy to support both it and the Fusions.

I'm not too concerned about Studio... I just wish they would concentrate on HD card support.

[mlbdude]

What kind of antennas are you OTA guys using?

[lovingHDTV]

I use the Channel Master 4228. Got it at Fry's for $42.00.

You can see a nice comparison here:

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html


As you can see the channels you want to pick up are important in deciding what channel you want to use. In my case all my OTA channels are between 28 and 54 so the 4228 fit my needs well. I have it installed in my attic.

[mlbdude]

I don't want to mess with any of the big ones. Do any like this actually work?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....&type=category

[Rob]

I also have the channel master 4228. Works great.

I did not have much luck with indoor antenna's or with an omnidirictional antenna. The channelmaster is on the roof now. It was working great in the attic, but when the roof was replaced last year it was done with decking that is lined with insullation. So, I had to move the antenna to the roof. It works great. I'm about 20 miles North of Dallas. It picks up everything from Dallas and Fort Worth.