New Nvdvd decoders WOW!

[pengdahl]

BTW make sure you install DScaler 4.111 - DScaler 5 is a totally different program (it's an MPEG filter - pretty good too for an alpha).

[pengdahl]

Here's the referenced post on AVS:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ng#post4534246

[Milkman]

Thanks...anyway we can use Dscaler 5 in Sage? While I was there I grabbed both and installed both, but didn't see Dscaler 5 as a choice the next time I started up.

[JasonJoel]

It wasn't in mine... TomsMoComp was included with DSCALER 4.1.11, but MOCOMP2 was not.

Unfortunately when I try to use TomsMoComp, it locks up Sage.

EDIT: Hmmm... actually, my video playing program (WMPlayer or Sage) locks up any time I do ANY deinterlacing filter. Any thoughts why?

EDIT #2: Ok.... Crashes the player anytime I use a DSCALER plugin, but works with the FFDSHOW deinterlacing plugins. So for now I'm just using TomsMoComp in FFDSHOW instead of as a DSCALER plugin. Cool.

I set up the Nvidia decoder as mentioned (FILM + Show fields separately).



Jason

Originally Posted by pengdahl

The mocomp2 de-interlacer is included with the DScaler application.
Download DScaler from Sourceforge and install it, then browse to its directory (usually Program Files\DScaler or some such) and choose it.

My two favorite DScaler de-interacers are TomsMoComp and Mocomp2.
TomsMoComp is included with ffdshow, so you might try that one. Mocomp2 is intended (per the author of DScaler) to be a good motion compensating deinterlacer that uses less cpu than TomsMoComp. TomsMoComp arguably generates better results, though.

My experience with the DScaler plugin in ffdshow has been spotty - not all of the plugins work very well. When in doubt, I use one of the included ones.

[Watter]

Originally Posted by pengdahl

The mocomp2 de-interlacer is included with the DScaler application.

Hmmm... I don't know why but I don't seem to have that one. I'm using the latest 4.xxxx DScaler. I'll grab an earlier version and see if it's included there.

-Watter

[Watter]

Originally Posted by pengdahl

The mocomp2 de-interlacer is included with the DScaler application.

After much investigationI finally figured out that the plugin isn't installed unless you check the "plugins in-development" option during the DScaler install. It's not installed by default.

For what it's worth, in my setup Greedy2Frame also worked worked pretty well. I couldn't tell a difference between it and MoComp2.

-Watter

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Milkman

Thanks...anyway we can use Dscaler 5 in Sage? While I was there I grabbed both and installed both, but didn't see Dscaler 5 as a choice the next time I started up.

Well if it's the last decoder you installed, selecting Default as your decoder in Sage will probably work otherwise.

Exit Sage completely and add the following to the videoframe\additional_video_decoders= line of the properties file:
Sage 2.1:
videoframe\additional_video_filters=Dscaler MPEG2 Video Decoder
Sage 2.0
videoframe\additional_video_filters=Dscaler MPEG2 Video Decoder,Video In,Video Out
If you something there already, just put a semicolon ( between the current one and the dscaler one.

[salsbst]

Originally Posted by stanger89

The other thing you can try:
Calibrate the 250 to 16-235 so it matches DVDs, and then use the ffdshow levels filter to expand the 16-235 to 0-255 so both video and DVDs will look right on your display.

Ok, confused here. I don't know what I should be aiming for anymore.

I use a CRT HDTV via component output from my Radeon at 1080i/VMR9.

Is there a difference in how DVDs and the video from PVR 250s are encoded in terms of the color space? I thought both should be calibrated to keep *almost all* information between 16 and 235 (leaving aside, if possible, the subject of blacker than black and whiter than white). I that is done, where does the need for the level adjustments come into play?

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by salsbst

Ok, confused here. I don't know what I should be aiming for anymore.

I use a CRT HDTV via component output from my Radeon at 1080i/VMR9.

To summarize a really long thread at AVS. Basically there are two standards we have to deal with here. On the PC, black is defined as 0-0-0 RGB, and white as 255-255-255. Most PC displays, especially LCD monitors are designed with that in mind. IIRC this would be the "standard" RGB spec.

In contrast, in the video world, black is defined as 16-16-16, and white as 235-235-235 so that there's a little headroom and toeroom, this is the "Studio RGB" spec. If you look at a standard DVD, the lumance range is almost always between 16 and 235. However once you add in the colors and convert to RGB, most DVDs contain information outside the 16-235 range. If you were to expand 16-235 you would chop off some above white and below black information. This is most obvious with test patterns like in DVE and THX Optimizer where you can see that the below black info is present (16-235 output) or not (if you've expanded it to fit 0-255).

It's also important to realize that in video 16 and 235 are not hard limits (like 0 and 255 are) they are "reference" values, ie as you said Stuart, most content should be between those values. It's also important to note that, especially with CRTs, the device has no hard black or white level, so even when "properly calibrated" for 16-235 content, they can actually display info outside that range.

My opinion, and the way I calibrate everything, is that in an HT environment, the PC should output as close to Consumer/video levels as possible, therefor I believe it it correct to have your HTPC set to output such that reference black is 16 and reference white is 235. I calibrate my capture settings so that they are as close to 16-235 as possible so that they are essentailly within the same range as DVDs, that way all my content has a similar range and the same display calibration will work for all of them.

What I was suggesting to Jeraden above was this: Since he has an LCD monitor, with which it's probably impossible to calibrate the display such that 16 looks black, he could basically use ffdshow to remap Studio RGB into PC RGB since that would probably look better in his circumstance.

[Milkman]

Thanks Stanger...worked like a champ

[pengdahl]

In the case of LCD/Plasma monitors, another option would be to calibrate the incoming video signal (using the "color calibration" option in sage together with the DScaler Histogram filter in ffdshow) to 0-255 instead of 16-235. My Plasma display has an option for its DVI input where you can specify a "low" or "high" setting for the black level, for example.

Advantages:
1. Theoretically wider range of luminance and color will be recorded, resulting in a better picture (assuming that the source actually has this info).
2. The screen calibration will be correct for the Windows desktop, other programs, games, etc.

Disadvantages:
1. Resulting MPEG file would have the wrong values for archiving to DVD, possibly resulting in crushed whites and blacks on playback.
2. If you use Sage and the same filters to watch DVDs, your screen calibration may result in washed out blacks and dirty whites. (because on your screen, 16=dark gray and 235=light gray)

On the other hand, setting the calibration to 16/235 and using ffdshow's level filter to stretch to the full 0-255 maintains advantage number 2 while removing both disadvantages. So on balance, I guess I have to agree with Stanger, unless you don't use Sage to watch DVDs.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by pengdahl

1. Theoretically wider range of luminance and color will be recorded, resulting in a better picture (assuming that the source actually has this info).

Except that it doesn't the 16-235 range is the standard, BT.601 if you care to look it up, so all consumer video should be within the 16-235 range.

Just a FWIW

[pengdahl]

Yes, but if you're recording an analog signal, you will get more information with more sample points, even if the original digital signal didn't contain it (because of the error introduced by the D-A and A-D conversions)

Nevertheless I still think you're probably right - the best way generally to configure Sage is to record at 16-235 and stretch the resulting video.

Another way to stretch the video is to use the Overlay and use the overlay brightness/contrast controls. This also has the advantage of not screwing up your windows desktop.

Or of course you could use Powerstrip (together with hotkeys to make it easy).

I only suggested the option of recording to the full 0-255 because it's simple and just works for LCD/Plasma users.

[rsagetv99]

Originally Posted by pengdahl

If it's working right, you should see "Software mode YUY2" and "Undefined Renderer" in the "Decoder Format" part of the dialog. It's important that you don't see "Video Post Processor" here, because the VPP adds interlacing artifacts (to my eye, at least).

I completed all of the steps above, however in the decoder settings I see "YUY2" and "Video Mixing". Also, when I try to view TV in SAGE, I get kicked out of SAGE. Any ideas?

[Beelzebub]

Is anyone using these with a projector. So far I haven't found a good software solution. I'm now using H+ which does a good job, the only problem is there is a slight wavy affect. Not nearly as bad as the artifacts, vertical lines, and trippy motion when using software decoders. I've tried just about every decoder out there. I evan tried the ffshow stuff, with no luck. I only wish Sage supported the Xcard, or there was a newer hardware decoder that worked like the H+. I could get a PVR-350, but I really have no need for a 3rd encoder, and you can't play DVD's. Of course I might get a stand alone DVD player. Maybe that Avia with the VGA port.

Oh yeah, If I do buy these does Nvidia still have there same crappy software policy. No hard copy, and you have to get a new License key every time you install the software. I don't want to have to go through all that B.S. like I did with NVDVD 2.0.

[stanger89]

FWIW, seems like as good a thread as any.

For those of you who are curious...

I posted a screenshot recorded with my 250 off cable here:
http://forums.sage.tv/forums/showpos...8&postcount=63

Well I have since purchased the DVD and took the attached screenshot, shows you what's possible with the 250

I'm a little surprised myself, but it looks like I need to re-calibrate my capture settings

[infiniti_guy]

I tried reading all the messages in this tag, but I think I still need a little help...

I installed the 1.00.58 and I did not get a new icon (have 5 series nvidia card, so already have one icon in task bar). In sage, the decoder shows up, but the Nvidia video decoder causes playback error, the VPP decoder works (but not the audio decoder as previously mentioned several times here).

Anyway, is the normal nvidia decoder supposed to work, or just the vpp one? And how can I get to the settings for the nvidia decoder (no system tray icon)? Anyone have these problems?

Thanks

[jan smit]

Anyway, is the normal nvidia decoder supposed to work, or just the vpp one? And how can I get to the settings for the nvidia decoder (no system tray icon)? Anyone have these problems?

I have a NVidia 5200 card and the Nvidia icon in my taskbar. After installing NVDVD (purchased) decoder, Sage shows NVidia decoder and Nvidia Post Processor as decoder options. In TV and Video I can select either of these, but only the Post Processor version works; it brings an extra icon in my taskbar, when I rightclick it and select properties I can make adjustments. In the DVD menu I can also select either one decoder but the Nvidia decoder crashes Sage, the other (Post Processor) works with the extra icon in the taskbar, untill I rightclick it and bring up its "properties" , it then gives the message "sorry windows has to close .......".

I don't know what is normal, but this obviously isn't.

[buck1952]

SageTV Customer Support's reply concerning NVDVD tray icon crashing SageTV-

I was talking with one of the developers and the issue is that when SageTV
has control of the decoder launching the app causes a conflict between the
app and SageTV using the decoder. This is something that we will have to
look into in the future to see if there is anything we can do. I apologize
for not having a solution for you.

[R_Andersen]

Originally Posted by infiniti_guy

I tried reading all the messages in this tag, but I think I still need a little help...

I installed the 1.00.58 and I did not get a new icon (have 5 series nvidia card, so already have one icon in task bar). In sage, the decoder shows up, but the Nvidia video decoder causes playback error, the VPP decoder works (but not the audio decoder as previously mentioned several times here).

Anyway, is the normal nvidia decoder supposed to work, or just the vpp one? And how can I get to the settings for the nvidia decoder (no system tray icon)? Anyone have these problems?

Thanks

I had similar problems when I installed NVDVD. If the NV decoder is the most recent one you installed, it should be set as the default for windows. So all you have to do is select 'default' in the Sage decoder selection and it will use the standard NVDVD and the tray icon will show up.

Hope that help....

-Rob