Studio Release

[ToxMox]

Originally Posted by r00st3r

Thank you to the STV developers for your hard work, but new revisions are coming out almost daily. which is not acceptable, but then again neither is waiting weeks for you to get things ironed out.

Why isn't this acceptable? New revisions usually mean improvements and new functionality. Like I said in the second post in this thread nobody is forcing you to install each revision. If you see a new revision and it has something in it that you'd like to use then install it if you want to use that new functionality. You're acting as if the STV developers should put out one STV and then never release again but not weeks because that is too long. Just install the revisions at your leisure. If Studio was available to the public how would that have any affect on when people release their own customizations. None of the custom STVs are supported by Frey. If you like them use them and if you don't then stick to the OriginalV2. (no smilies)
Oh and your original comment about nobody is forcing me to reply to your post was silly. True nobody is forcing me to reply but I chose to. Just as you can choose to install an STV everyday or every other month for all I care.

[gplasky]

Gerry

[mdmint]

I've been enjoying this thread for weeks and verily agree with pretty much everything that's been said! I agree with those who purchased Sage when Frey was advertising Studio would be soon released for it (myself included) that Frey ought to make some sort of Official Statement why it's not happening. They haven't and it's not a big deal to me. Maybe not the best business practice to leave customers in the dark but their choice. Then again IIRC they don't plan on selling Studio but giving it away.

Then again I've never really figured out how Frey Tech could be viable long term business wise when seemingly all upgrades etc. are free. Doesn't make sense to me. For instance, if they must pay a regular ongoing forever fee to provide EPG and yet don't pass on a small portion as an ongoing user fee how the heck can the business stay afloat? No ongoing income. Buy Sage once and get free release upgrades for life. Buy Sage once and get EPG for life. I would not invest in their business with this model.

On the other hand Sage has done everything I planned it to do when I built my Sage systems early this Spring. Both versions 2 & 2.1.10 Server & Client have been rock solid for me. Handles up to 5 tuners recording and three Clients playback 24x7 no problem. And the user produced STVs have made it just that much better. (On Clients, dedicated Server gets nothing but "stock" which is possibly why it's always been so stable for me. ) I still believe Sage is an excellent out of the box value as is. Could it be better? Sure. Little if anything in life is perfect.

Yeah it would (and hopefully will) be great to be able to totally customize Sage with Studio. (But if Studio is never released I won't be asking for a refund or sniveling. ) Bottom line for me is it's working great with a high WAF.

[mostlyfodder]

this really is the thread that will not die. i do think it shows there's strong interest in studio, or at least something like it. (custom STV's notwithstanding.) i'm really happy with the custom STV's i'm using (nielm's), but it's not enough for me. i do think the silence on the part of sage devs isn't really helping the situation. they should be so lucky to have people so interested in their product.. but, they can do what they like, until there's stiffer competition. meedioTV, which i thought was going to be a threat, is much less mature than i think a lot of people expected. i do agree that sage changed direction, but i don't fault them for that. i do fault them for their silence.

some might argue, 'but look at the meedio forums'--- those poor devs are getting flamed/criticized for the comments they do post. and to that i say, yes, there is a vocal minority in any group. but the community leaders (i.e. the developers of HTPC software) should not respond to that kind of behavior, because there are the rest of us, the majority, who are very interested customers who support the product and contribute our time & knowledge to furthur development.

[korben_dallas]

This is purely theoretical, but who would be happy/contented/fulfilled if Studio was released, but not for free?

I would, depending on the price..

[PGPfan]

I certainly would consider paying for it also. Hopefully if priced near what a client might cost?

-PGPfan

[r00st3r]

TOX--
This reply is not meant to be hostile, unless you interpret it as such...

When I have devoted my HTPC to one stv and there are anomlies in that stv, I am forced to do the updates in order to fix those anomolies. I can't just "NOT" install the new updates as I am already so far into the stv (time wise) that I will not choose (Yes i said choose) to go back to the standard stv. Then once the anomolies are taken care if, a new "Feature is introduced which has more anolmoies. This seems to be a never ending process. I am not bagging on the developers...I am a developer myself and understand the process.

Yes I suppose I could go back the the standard stv, but after I have devoted a lot time to getting the stv to work so my family could use it, just to go back to standard, why bother.

But that was not the point of this thread...the point was that there are many stv's and none are complete (but please correct me if I am wrong). It's always "add this and fix that", which is what you will get when 5 people are developing and hundreds are using the product.

In the meedio add-ins, they package it up and that is it, no new revisions 2 days later..but the stv developers add a piece and release it then add another peice and release it rather than completing the stv and then releasing it as a completed stv. (the above comparison was not a comparison betweeen meedio and sage but merely the development of plug-ins in general). This post was merely a question for the release of studio and we are digressing (sp?) and nit picking about the use of stv's

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by r00st3r

there are many stv's and none are complete (but please correct me if I am wrong). It's always "add this and fix that", which is what you will get when 5 people are developing and hundreds are using the product.

In the meedio add-ins, they package it up and that is it, no new revisions 2 days later..but the stv developers add a piece and release it then add another peice and release it rather than completing the stv and then releasing it as a completed stv.

Hey -- you'll love my MalDude2 STV, then... I haven't touched it in a LONG time, so I guess you could consider it to be complete! (I don't think malore has updated his in quite a while either.)

- Andy

[nielm]

I have not touched my importable modules either (excluding todays IMDB bug-fix)

[mostlyfodder]

yea i didn't think r00ster was criticizing any STV authors. he just wants what most of us want-- the ability to customize it ourselves.

[r00st3r]

Fodder- Glad someone understands what I am trying to convey...

Neilm & Opus.
I will check your stv's out. I have not checked them in a while as I have been using the SAGEMC integrated with meedio EMCEE (that is really annoying..everything ends in ee.... )

Anyway, thanks for all you are doing...

[kny3twalker]

malore's and Maldude appear to be the most finished projects
and probably SageMC
but Malores and Maldude's have a bug where you are using vMR9 and the sagerecording menus have issues
what are the bugs in SageMC

[mayamaniac]

I find the originalv2.stv to be the most stable and best fit for the TV screen. It seems most other custom made stv's were designed for computer monitor and not TV, as some of the graphics and text are aweful looking on the TV screen. Plus the designs are not any better, but then again, I personally dont like most of the designs out there including MCE, Meedio, BTV, etc. I'm find with the default SageTV STV. Although it would be cool to have Studio or some way to edit the stv slightly, such as rename some of the menus or change the colors so that text are easier to read. But I'm not gonna bitch about Studio not released since I didn't buy Sage for that reason. I think its an excellent product by itself without studio.

I used to be a BTV person and switched to SageTV not too long ago because I thought snapstream was trying to make money too fast while BTV wasn't polished yet. They were charging too much for unpolished products. For that reason, I stopped supporting them. It seems that they don't listen to their customers much. I felt they let the marketing department take over and so the company headed down a different direction than I expected, nor did I like. They lost me as a customer. I hope Frey keeps on innovating and do not follow the same path as snapstream, because I like SageTV and would like to continue to support it. Make your product the best at what it does, and it will sell.

[Cayars]

I used to be a big BTV user also. I was one of the "in" people there and saw the writing on the wall too. Of course I purchased both BTV and SageTV within a day or two of each other and ran both. At the time I just liked BTV better. When Frey came out with version 2.0 of SageTV, SS's marketing/programming started to change focus. The combination of these two things caused me to switch and I haven't looked back since!

[nielm]

r00ster: I knew what you really meant

I know that a constantly updated monolithic STV is a pain to use (and a irritating with the constant updates) - and believe me, it is also a pain for the developer too - which is why I went for the importable modules approach. The problem is that writing STV modules is very very difficult at the moment, and a lot of things are simply not possible with modules.

kny3twalker: SageMC STV describes itself as a Alpha Preview, which I guess describes the authors own opinion of it's stability..

mayamaniac: if you just want OrigV2 with customisable menus, use my customisable menu importable module with OriginalV2... Last updated Oct 29 [/plug!]

[kny3twalker]

kny3twalker: SageMC STV describes itself as a Alpha Preview, which I guess describes the authors own opinion of it's stability..

ah forgot about that
and yeah I could probably say there are some bugs
but no sure if that is related to my beta video card drivers
my beta SageTV install or my alpha release of my STV
hehe

[mlbdude]

Did not want to get involved in this discussion, but I guess since my STV is being discussed...

Please consider the SageMC STV as what it is advertised as - "Alpha". I put it up for those that want to check out the progress of the project. Now, it is probably at the point where it is completely usable but the reason I have not changed it to "Beta" status IS because I am still adding new items and fixing others. If you choose to use it before the Beta cycle begins, you use it at your own risk.

[mc2wheels]

I really wish the commercial skipping and compressing features that are in some of the STVs were in standalone modules (or at least only requiring the custom menus module). I don't want a lot of the other stuff, and I don't want instability. But these two features often make me want to start using Cayars stv. Then, wading through all of the posts in that thread, I always stop myself. Modular is better IMHO.

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by mc2wheels

I really wish the commercial skipping and compressing features that are in some of the STVs were in standalone modules (or at least only requiring the custom menus module). I don't want a lot of the other stuff, and I don't want instability. But these two features often make me want to start using Cayars stv. Then, wading through all of the posts in that thread, I always stop myself. Modular is better IMHO.

It's pretty much plug and play. If you have a question about something you can use the SEARCH THREAD feature which is pretty useful or you could always start a new thread with the question just like you would/cound do in any of the "standard" forums.

[nielm]

Originally Posted by nielm

...a lot of things are simply not possible with modules.

Comskip is one of them