I have to break down and ask for help...

[Paulsreef]

I'm one of people who hates to RTFM, but I've done that and I've lurked here for a few months, but I'm still stuck. Everyone here has provided tons of great information that helped me make the decision to take the plunge, but I'm still not getting results that warrant my experiment being in the living room! Any help for a complete newbie would be greatly appreciated. I managed to cobble together the parts I needed to try my hand at this HTPC thing. I used an existing PC, got a flat panel on the cheap from a friend and received new Nvidia and AveraMedia cards as gifts.

Here's what I'm currently using:

PC: VPR Matrix FT6100 w/ XP Home SP2 ( http://www.vprmatrix.com/products_desktop_FT6100.asp )
Intel Pentium 4 Processor at 2.53GHz, 533 MHz front side bus, 512K processor cache, 512MB DDR memory, 100GB, 7200 RPM ATA/100 hard drive

Tuner Card: Avermedia UltraTV 550

GPU: Nvidia 6600 GT AGP

Sage 2.1

DirextX9c

TV/Monitor: 42" Plasma Display MX-42VM7
http://www.maxentusa.com/_coreModule...uctMasterID=13

I realize that the display may not be optimal, but given the cheap price from a friend, I can't really complain.

The issues I'm having are around display quality. For one, I can't get VRM9 to work at all. Is this an issue with the card I'm using? Every time I enable it, video doesn't work at all.

Next, I'm not pleased with the quality of live TV. I'm confused about what my resolution should be set at. I want to be able to use the PC and watch TV, but if I set the PC resolution to 1920x1080 then I can't use my PC because the resolution is too high. Additionally, even when I set my resolution that high the quality of the live TV is still a bit fuzzy. Is this just because it’s SD or is the TV to blame? Even when I watch a DVD from the PC the picture isn't stellar. Its ok, but it doesn't come close to what I would expect. There's a lot of artifacting and fuzziness. What can I do to improve this? I'm running DVI to DVI. I could run component, would this make a difference?

Sorry for all the basic questions, I just need a kick in the right direction. I've got the wife sold on the interface and if I can get the display as good as possible I can move on. I'm using the STV by Cayars and we love the interface.

Thanks,

Paul

[Hector]

Unfortunately I use hardware decoding so I can't help you with your specific issues but no matter what you do SD is going to look like crap on an HD set.

One thing I don't think you mentioned is your source. Cable, OTA or sat? First thing is to view the source on the set so you can at least see what's the best you can expect. If you have cable the analog channels are going to be worse. If you have DTV some are going to be almost good (ESPN) and some are going to be embarrassingly bad (non HD NFL Ticket).

Personally I have DirecTV which is probably the best consistent SD signal. On my HD it looks terrible even if I run it right out of the S-vid of the Sat STB into the TV bypassing my pc hardware altogether.

Bottom line is that SD looks terrible on HD sets. Some people will tell you they get very good results which means it looks as good as the source does on their HD sets but it's still bad because there is no way around the technical problem. Right now having an HD set is a balance between getting great HD programming and tolerating how crappy SD looks. Another point is that some HD sets do a much better job of displaying SD than others. If you watch a lot of SD programming that is definitely a consideration when you pick your set. Understanding you didn't get to choose I'd look around to find other people using your set to see what their SD results are like on a similar source. It's important not to discount that because some cable co's for example are really bad.

So first thing is bypass your HTPC and see what the source SHOULD look like on your set. That being said there are some really smart people here who understand the software decoders who should be able to get you to the point that it looks as good as its going to.

peace . . .

Originally Posted by Paulsreef

I'm one of people who hates to RTFM, but I've done that and I've lurked here for a few months, but I'm still stuck. Everyone here has provided tons of great information that helped me make the decision to take the plunge, but I'm still not getting results that warrant my experiment being in the living room! Any help for a complete newbie would be greatly appreciated. I managed to cobble together the parts I needed to try my hand at this HTPC thing. I used an existing PC, got a flat panel on the cheap from a friend and received new Nvidia and AveraMedia cards as gifts.

Here's what I'm currently using:

PC: VPR Matrix FT6100 w/ XP Home SP2 ( http://www.vprmatrix.com/products_desktop_FT6100.asp )
Intel Pentium 4 Processor at 2.53GHz, 533 MHz front side bus, 512K processor cache, 512MB DDR memory, 100GB, 7200 RPM ATA/100 hard drive

Tuner Card: Avermedia UltraTV 550

GPU: Nvidia 6600 GT AGP

Sage 2.1

DirextX9c

TV/Monitor: 42" Plasma Display MX-42VM7
http://www.maxentusa.com/_coreModule...uctMasterID=13

I realize that the display may not be optimal, but given the cheap price from a friend, I can't really complain.

The issues I'm having are around display quality. For one, I can't get VRM9 to work at all. Is this an issue with the card I'm using? Every time I enable it, video doesn't work at all.

Next, I'm not pleased with the quality of live TV. I'm confused about what my resolution should be set at. I want to be able to use the PC and watch TV, but if I set the PC resolution to 1920x1080 then I can't use my PC because the resolution is too high. Additionally, even when I set my resolution that high the quality of the live TV is still a bit fuzzy. Is this just because it’s SD or is the TV to blame? Even when I watch a DVD from the PC the picture isn't stellar. Its ok, but it doesn't come close to what I would expect. There's a lot of artifacting and fuzziness. What can I do to improve this? I'm running DVI to DVI. I could run component, would this make a difference?

Sorry for all the basic questions, I just need a kick in the right direction. I've got the wife sold on the interface and if I can get the display as good as possible I can move on. I'm using the STV by Cayars and we love the interface.

Thanks,

Paul

[mc2wheels]

I have the Chaintech, and I am using the component out converter cable, and not the s-Video. I just choose the TV settings tab of the nVidia app, and then I chose an HDTV resolution. I am using an SDTV, so I can only choose 480i, but they list 1080i, 720p, etc.

Also, what codec are you using for playback? Are you using nvdvd?

[kny3twalker]

you should try running the TV maybe at 720p(should be 1280x720) but I would use the timings built into the drivers for 720p so you get the correct refresh rates
and definitely need to get VMR9 working
make sure the decoder you use can be used with VMR9
and that I also have analogue cable and directv
directv look so much better than the analogue
it might be a good upgrade to consider since you are getting such a higher end TV

make sure the drivers are up to date, make sure 3d acceleration is enabled in SageTV, and that you have either installed directx9 c redistributable or SP2 and done the fix for VMR9 (top stick in sagetv discussion, replacing the dll)

[Paulsreef]

Thanks for the reply. I'm using DirecTV as well. I actually started out by connecting the receiver directly to the monitor and the quality was OK... not stellar. I see your point about using that as a test to see the best its ever going to look. Great point. I guess I need to look into using a source of HD content.

Beyond live TV, I would assume that at least the digital content from DVD's would look very good. I think I'm missing something in my settings.

Originally Posted by Hector

Personally I have DirecTV which is probably the best consistent SD signal. On my HD it looks terrible even if I run it right out of the S-vid of the Sat STB into the TV bypassing my pc hardware altogether.

[Paulsreef]

Originally Posted by mc2wheels

I have the Chaintech, and I am using the component out converter cable, and not the s-Video. I just choose the TV settings tab of the nVidia app, and then I chose an HDTV resolution. I am using an SDTV, so I can only choose 480i, but they list 1080i, 720p, etc.

Also, what codec are you using for playback? Are you using nvdvd?

I bought the eVGA version. A component out came with it but (since I don't have it with me at the moment... I'll check later) I think the component converter was S-Video to component. Is that right?

The monitor is capable of 1080i, so I can choose that. Earlier I asked about how to make both the PC and the PVR usable at that resolution. I asked a buddy of mine here at work and he suggested using the dual monitor option on the card to essentially create two views... one in 1280x720 and another in 1920x1080. Is that a common solution?

I have everything set as default as far as codecs go. I'm embarrased to say that I don't know how to confirm what codec I'm using. I've read a lot about people using nvDVD, but I was under the impression that it is only available as a bundle with certain cards. I do have the nVidia DVD Decoder... is that the same thing or would it provide the codec?

[Paulsreef]

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

you should try running the TV maybe at 720p(should be 1280x720) but I would use the timings built into the drivers for 720p so you get the correct refresh rates)

Once again... total newbie question: How do I know what the refresh rates should be for my set at a specific resolution?

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

and definitely need to get VMR9 working
make sure the decoder you use can be used with VMR9

What is the trick to getting VMR9 working? Everytime I enable it in Sage I just get a blank (black) screen.

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

make sure the drivers are up to date, make sure 3d acceleration is enabled in SageTV, and that you have either installed directx9 c redistributable or SP2 and done the fix for VMR9 (top stick in sagetv discussion, replacing the dll)

I believe I have all the latest drivers, but I'll double and triple check. 3D acceleration is enabled in SageTV and I'm using DirectX9c. I haven't done the fix for VMR9, perhaps that the source of my problems. I'll check the sticky.

Thank you all so much for the guidance. I feel like I've made more progress here in a few hours than I did all weekend tinkering!

[mc2wheels]

and at least the beta driver 67.3 for the GPU. It definitely made some issues go away for me. The s-video has much less artifacting with fast motion, but I guess that won't affect you. I am sure there are other bug fixes though.

Anyway, yes, the S-Video to component cable is exactly what you want to use. I only asked because the XFX 6600GT doesn't have one, and can only use s-video out with that card. I have switched back to the s-video out with the latest drivers, but you will definitely want to use the component out. I think you will be very pleased with the result. You will still lose a little definition from live tv, but the image will be very good.

One thing to note: I had issues with the card recognizing that I had only a tv hooked up. I had no tv output at all and actually had to hook up a monitor to change the settings after I updated my drivers.

[kny3twalker]

use either DVI to DVI/HDMI
or the component output cable that came with the video card

you need to go into the driver settings and click the advanced timings
for 1080i it is 29.97 Hz
and for 720p it is 59.94 Hz

if the overscan bothers you you will need to use powerstrip
but worry about this later

the decoders that come with the video card are old and out of date
download the newest ones from nvidias website they are 20 dollars but well worth it

update your drivers to these
although beta they should work fine
http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_do..._2k_67.03.html

in SageTV leave DVXA deinterlacing and deinterlacing modes as default
choose Nvidia Post Processor
and VMR9 rendering
audio
whatever as long as it does not crash SageTV
and then if you get picture and sound
goto windowed view
right click the nvidia task bar icon and change the deinterlacing mode to smart

then you can get the pure video option enabled in the drivers
the new decoder is required though
and do the fix for VMR9
switch the two dlls
in safe mode

[bones71]

I believe to use vmr9 you need to set your tv as the main display. I did anyways.

[Paulsreef]

Originally Posted by mc2wheels

the S-Video to component cable is exactly what you want to use.

Thanks, I'll definitely give that a shot. I was under the impression that DVI out to DVI on the monitor would be the best, most lossless way to go. Is that wrong?

[Paulsreef]

Sweet! Thanks... I may have to "come down with something" today at work so I can go home early to try these out!

Just a couple quick questions:

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

use either DVI to DVI/HDMI
or the component output cable that came with the video card

I'll have to hook it up both ways to see what looks best.

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

the decoders that come with the video card are old and out of date
download the newest ones from nvidias website they are 20 dollars but well worth it

I purchased the NVidia DVD Decoder for $20, is that what you're talking about. I'm having some issues getting it to install, but I'm working through those with NVidia.

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

audio
whatever as long as it does not crash SageTV
and then if you get picture and sound

For some reason I lost sound last night and can't for the life of me figure out what I did The UltraTV app that came with the Avermedia card still works and I can hear audio if I unmute Line In, but through the PVR I just hear static. I'm tempted to just do a complete uninstall, etc. and start fresh.

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

right click the nvidia task bar icon and change the deinterlacing mode to smart

Is this the NView app that runs in the task bar?

[IKK]

I should be receiving by 50in Pioneer plasma tomorrow . From what I am hearing on this board, I am looking at having a terrible picture in SD . The TV states that it has built in drivers for Microsoft to use the display. Does anyone know if this makes a difference. I plan on using a 50ft super vga cable to connect the TV to Sage, and then connect the HDMI cable to OTH HD. Can anyone tell me if I am going in the right direction with this, should I look at doing something different.

[mc2wheels]

If your monitor supports DVI output from the card, then you should use that. That is unless you can't get the resolution that you want. It may be easier to get the right resolution with the component out just because of the driver support for the card. Try both, but I have no experience with straight DVI -- perhaps others with better TVs than I have can answer that.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by IKK

I should be receiving by 50in Pioneer plasma tomorrow . From what I am hearing on this board, I am looking at having a terrible picture in SD .

Absolutely not, well it depends on you expectations. You can get a VERY good SD picture (if you have a good source) but it will be SD. Look at it this way, it will likely look worse, read you'll see more issues, on your Pio than you would on a 27" SDTV, but you will easilly get a picture as good or better than Live (to you Pio) through Sage. At least that's my experience with my 46" Mitsubishi. I've seen quality run the gambit, from crap to almost DVD, it just depends on the source.

The TV states that it has built in drivers for Microsoft to use the display. Does anyone know if this makes a difference. I plan on using a 50ft super vga cable to connect the TV to Sage, and then connect the HDMI cable to OTH HD. Can anyone tell me if I am going in the right direction with this, should I look at doing something different.

Is it an "industrial" or consumer model (ie is it a 504CMX)? If so then you'll probably have no issues connecting your computer since it's designed for tha.

And yes you sound like you've got a good handle on it. Although I'd consider running the PC via HDMI and the OTA HD box via component.

[IKK]

Yes it is the industrial model. I also purchased the card with the extra connections. The issue I have is that pc will be in a closet and I will need anywhere between 30 to 40 feet of cable to reach my plasma. I know there is no problem with 15 pin cable but not sure in DVI. I have seen some DVI cables as long as 50ft but they cost an arm and a leg.

[kny3twalker]

Is this the NView app that runs in the task bar?

no it should settings for the decoder

[Paulsreef]

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

no it should settings for the decoder

I'm not sure I even have that in the task bar. Can you post a screen cap of what it looks like?

[kny3twalker]

here

[Paulsreef]

Ok so last night I installed the 67.03 drivers without a problem and did the Quartz.dll fix, but TV still freezes when I switch to VMR9. When I add NVidia as post processor, I get an error. In the information I found here on the site, the fix was for a single .dll but you mention switching the two... is there another .dll that needs to be replaced?

kny3twalker, I tried those refresh rates you gave me and they just made the screen smaller and centered on the monitor. I never did find the option for setting deinterlacing to smart. Thanks for the screen cap. When I right click that icon in the task bar, I can change just about any option, but I don't see anything that indicates switching deinterlacing to smart.

I thought I was having problems with installing the new decoder from NVidia, but when I talked to Nvidia this morning they explained that when I bought the new decoder 2 days ago they were still serving up 1.00.58 and that I need to use the latest 1.00.67. They had me download the Windows XP Video Decoder Checkup Utility to see which decoder was installed. I'll install that later and see how it goes. It was weird... when I installed 1.00.58 on my laptop, I saw a bunch of stuff in the ../Forceware/nStant Media directory, including the .exe file which NVidia told me they don't support but might be launching as a future product. When I installed it on my HTPC, I didn't get any of those files... and I'm not sure I got the decoder installed either, even though the install said it was successful.

One more question for now: when I reset the refresh rates, should I not choose the option to underscan and stick with native HDTV resolution?

Thanks,

Paul