mpeg-2 to mpeg-1

[Dale Reece]

got a question.
I just started useing the Sage recorder and it works like a champ with my PVR-350 (the Hauppauge schedular was a nightmare)
I am wondering if there is any way to record mpeg-1 since I like to make "moderate" size files that take up less space. If the recorder does not do mpeg-1, what Sage mpeg-2 setting should I use to get the best results when rendering the mpeg-2 to the standard mpeg-1 format.(useing Ulead Video Studio 8 to render)

[dvd_maniac]

Mpeg-2 is a better compression format. I wouldn't use Mpeg-1 unless you plan to archive to VCD format. What I do to keep file sizes down is record using Best. ABout 2.5-3GB GB per hour (The size changes due to using Variable bitrate) then I use AutoGK (Found on www.doom9.org)to compress the files down. With very little quality loss I compress 1 hour shows to 300MB. If you do not want to compress then you could just use the Extra Long Play and see if that is good enough quality, if not move to higher settings until you get what is acceptable Quality/Filesize for YOU.

It always depends on what your eyes can see on your equipment.

[Dale Reece]

I am currently useing the DVD extra long play as my prefered setting and I am getting some nice quality mpeg-1 videos with the desired minimal file size. In fact, the video quality appears to be better than those produced with the Hauppauge mpeg-1 software settings.
I haven't yet burned any DVD's useing the Sage recorder produced MPEG-2 files.

thanx for the mput

[nielm]

If Sage Recorder has a VCD record quality listed, then this is an MPEG-1 format (SageTV has this, but I do not have Recorder to check it).

But as the previous poster says, Mpeg-2 is better quality for a given bitrate because for a start, you are encoding a higher resolution frame:

MPEG-1 VCD: 352 x 240 pixels 1150 kbit/sec
MPEG-2 SVCD: 480 x 480 pixels max 2600 kbit/sec
MPEG-2: DVD: up to 720 x 480 pixels, max 9800 kbit/sec

In general terms, if you are going to transcode, (convert one compression format to another), record at a much higher bitrate before transcoding to minimse the existance of compression artifacts from the first compression format.

[dvd_maniac]

Not only a higher resolution but just a more efficient compression. It wastes less bits per frame and contains newer technologies.

One thing I can recommend you do is, encode to mpeg-2 using Half D1.
Instead of 720x480 you can use 352x480. This is only good if you are recording SDTV and viewing on SDTV. You almost cut the file size in half since the resolution is half. If you are recording from DigitalTV and viewing on LCD/Plasma then you would probably notice the difference.

Why is filesize important to you? Do you keep them on Hard Drive, Archive to DVD-r and want to fit a certain amount or you do not have alot of space to begin with?

[Dale Reece]

Sage Recorder has the the settings for VCD and MPEG-1 in the video settings but I simply cannot get them to load. They are shown on the multimedia tab / advanced settings button where you can supposedly load your own settings. These are obviously hauppauge settings since their logo is listed on one tab. No matter what settings I choose (VCD 352 x 240) or mpeg-1, the rendered product is of the Sage mpeg 2 setting. When I return to this tab after recording, the "program" button is always on instead of the VCD or mpeg-1. With Hauppauge application software and drivers , I could sucessfully produce two hour VCD files to later be edited to render clips.
YOU HAVE answered a nagging question in the back of my mind about transcoding and the evidence is in the excellent quality MPEG-1 clips produced from the DVD LONG PLAY setting I use with Sage. The Sage recorder does not list any VCD or mpeg buttons on its drop down interface and the Adobe manual only refers to all of it's settings as based on mpeg-2.

[dvd_maniac]

It would help if you clarified what it is that you do with your recordings. Do you archive to cd-r, dvd-r, keep on hard drive or watch & delete?

YOU HAVE answered a nagging question in the back of my mind about transcoding and the evidence is in the excellent quality MPEG-1 clips produced from the DVD LONG PLAY

Could be just me, but I think the DVD long Play "IS" mpeg-2. I do not use Recorder but I think it is pretty much the same as SageTV itself.

Again, Me personally, I would NOT use mpeg-1 unless you plan on burning these to VCD format (VideoCD) to play in a dvd player that supports it. You are much better off with mpeg-2 if this is not the case. You can set a custom record setting to almost match VCD so you will get a better picture with the same file size. If not smaller because the Audio does not have to be 224kbps, you can make it 192kbps.

example
mmc/python2_encoding/Fair=videobitrate\=1150000|vbr\=0|width\=352|height\=480|audiobitrate\=192|outputstreamtype\=10|audiosampling\=48000

[Dale Reece]

dvd maniac:
I am now won over on the issue of transcoding from mpeg-2 for better quality.I am also going to try encoding to mpeg-2 useing half D-1 just to see what this produces.

File size is important to me because I keep lots of videos on USB external drive for quick access. these are generally small clips of family videos. All of this along with software applications, family photo album, and DVD archive are made available through my LAN to three other PC's in my home network.

[Dale Reece]

In the quote, I am refering to transcoding a DVD LONG PLAY mpeg-2 file produced by Sage to the mpeg-1 format useing video editing software such as Ulead Video Studio.
I do not intend to burn these to a VCD. I share them on my network with other PC's that have limited drive space.

[Cayars]

DVD Long Play is 720 x 480.

[dvd_maniac]

Hi Dale

I think you might be missing the point. If you are not burning these clips to cd-r in VCD format, which you are not. Then it makes no sense to capture to mpeg-2 and convert to mpeg-1.
Either capture directly to mpeg-1 (not recommended) or capture at half D1 in mpeg-2.
If you are happy enough with the results you are getting now, you will be more happy if capturing direct to half D1 at the same bitrate.

My suggestion is you give a compression program a shot.Capture at highest setting possible and then compress. AutoGK I think is the easiest. Shrink 1 hour of video down to 250-300MB with good quality playback.
All you have to do is open file in AutoGK, pick the filesize you want and start job. On my PC, 1 hour video takes about 1 hour to compress.
VCD=517MB / hour. You could easily store 2x the video in mpeg-4 format. The only reason I would keep it in mpeg-2 is if you wanted to burn to dvd-r later.

[Dale Reece]

dvd maniac:
think I got the point now. can get mpeg-2 quality while keeping size down and still have the option to burn to dvd video. Just attempted to download AutoGK full package v.1.60 from 3 different mirrors at AutoGK site and it says I don't have server permission.(sounds like a personal problem huh)
will continue to work with this

[Dale Reece]

Cayars,
Is 'Ultimate STV" made to work with my $20 version of Sage Recorder version 1_5_6 or do I have to have a 'full version" of Sage TV?
This product looks impressive with lots of bells and whistles.

[dvd_maniac]

I have uploaded it to my server for you Here

I do not know about using Cayars on Recorder.

[Dale Reece]

dvd maniac:
thanks for the effort. fixin to install it now

[nielm]

Dale: you may have disabld referrer logging in your browser -- sites such as doom9 check the referrer in file downloads to check that you have come from doom9 download link to prevent file leeching.

STV's are different SageTV front-ends and are only for SageTV and SageClient...

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by Dale Reece

Cayars,
Is 'Ultimate STV" made to work with my $20 version of Sage Recorder version 1_5_6 or do I have to have a 'full version" of Sage TV?
This product looks impressive with lots of bells and whistles.

SageTVRecorde does not make use of STVs. Only SageTV can do that.

[nerys]

Will Sage TV encode DIRECT to mpeg1 or not ? this is not optional to me I can not use this if I can not record direct to mpeg1 transcoding later is not an option too much work for too little reward

My Entire home media network (media mvp's etc..) only support mpeg1 my PVP only supports mpeg1 my vcd players only support mpeg1 and I LIKE being able to drop 7 episodes onto a dvd if I want to and my portable dvd player also can read this.

so mpeg1 is not desired its required or my entire media setup breaks down.

mpeg1 is "good enough" for me. 600mb an hour rocks. 2.5-3gb an hour are you nuts ? pure waste of hard drive space :-(

so CAN the sage tv software encode DIRECTLY to mpeg1 or not ? my setup works fine and to mpeg1 using pvr 250 but I REALLY want multy tuner support so I can record ALL my shows. I managed to make a Wonder VE from ati play nicely with the pvr 250 but it is a software encoder and my tuner server machine is not the fastest nor do I want it to be (it runs 24 hours so I want it low power and quiet and cheap to maintain)

having 3 pr 4 tuners would be very nice since many times I find 2 4 even 4 shows on at the same darned time slot that I want

also the hauppauge scheduler is pure crap :-)

will the sage tv software encode DIRECTLY to mpeg1 yes or no ? has any tried ?

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[nerys]

also mpeg1 is doable over 802.11b mpeg2 is NOT

FYI I do not ARCHIVE this stuff. I dump 7 eps onto dvd at a time and store them. when I finish watching them I toss the disc. so I do not need nor do I want "high quality mpeg2) when mpeg1 is MORE than good enough quality for my purposes (watch and throw away)



Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

[nielm]

Nerys: this forum section is for Sage Reecorder, which is a different product to SageTV...
SageTV can record to MPEG1 with the built-in VCD recording quality setting, and playback recorded files, but you will not be able to timeshift (FF/REW) live TV