TV out VS DVI and other TV questions...

[jenkins_pete]

Just getting a system setup and wonder, why use TV out? Could you not directly connect the video out to the TV?

Also, for those with CRT HDTV sets, what is the actual resolution? If you look at a 30" LCD it is 1280X768 and the desktop (XP) looks really great, just like a normal monitor. What is a HDTV set (the same 30" size) resolution? I can only find information in lines but that is only 1 direction like 1000 lines? Does anyone have one of these HDTV CRTs for their HTPC driven by DVI? How does the desktop look?

The reason is that a HDTV CRT is so much cheaper and has better color than LCD, if the desktop is good (works for email etc) it will be considered in place of LCD TV.

Thanks so much for any information you can offer,

Pete

[g808]

If you mean video out from your video card, then yes, you can do that. Just connect the source video feed to your capture card, then use your video card's output to your TV. Sorry, if this is not what you're talking about.

As for HDTV resolutions. I belive for non-plasma, lcd TVs it would vary since those TVs are meant to "play nice" with computer resolutions. I have a rear projection 46" Sony HDTV and use the DVI out from my ATI 9600 @ 1920 x 1080 (1080i). The desktop is overscanned, but I don't mind since I don't use the PC for any desktop apps like a Web browser. SageTV nicely corrects for the overscan and the video fits nicely. This overscan could possibly be corrected in Powerstrip, but that's too much of a headache to get working for me. The resolution, after overscan correction, from powerstrip would be some odd resolution. This is why I mean it would vary from TV to TV. Individual owners would have to correct for the overscan until they are satisfied and that would be their final resolution.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jenkins_pete

Just getting a system setup and wonder, why use TV out? Could you not directly connect the video out to the TV?

Depends on the TV, if it's got a VGA/DVI in then yes, if it's component only, you need a card that supports component out.

Also, for those with CRT HDTV sets, what is the actual resolution?

While there is no real resolution per say, CRT HDTVs normally support 480i, 480p, and 1080i. In computer terms thats 640x480 or 1920x1080, or some other resolution that's run in those timings.

If you look at a 30" LCD it is 1280X768 and the desktop (XP) looks really great, just like a normal monitor. What is a HDTV set (the same 30" size) resolution? I can only find information in lines but that is only 1 direction like 1000 lines? Does anyone have one of these HDTV CRTs for their HTPC driven by DVI? How does the desktop look?

HDTVs, unless they support 720p are essentially useless "as monitors". You have to choose between really low resolution (640x480, 960x540) and readable, or high resolution (1920x1080, 1776x1000) and unreadable. Unless you spend about what a LCD TV costs (to get a CRT that does 720p) a CRT will get absolutely clobbered by an LCD when it comes to desktop/text.

[jenkins_pete]

Thanks for the replies, I am specifically interested in a HD CRT like the 30-34" widescreens selling for about $1000 these days. Can you point out some models that do 720p (CRT)? If they are actually close to LCD pricing then there would not be much advantage. The goal is to having something for tv / movies but also use for browsing the web, email etc. It is sounding like LCD is the way to go but does anyone do this on a CRT tv?

For g808 sorry I am not familiar with overscanned (assume you mean more resolution than your set will show) if you do drop to the desktop what does it look like? Is anyone out their using their TV as a monitor?

Thanks again,

Pete

[phantomfsoc]

I use mine for diff things. I agree with g808, I have mine set to 1776x1000 for sage and for DVD playback its beautiful. For email and anything else that involves reading text you'll have to goto a lower resolution like 640x480, 720x480, or even in the 800's to 900's.
It is doable, but you'll always be fighting OVERSCAN (when parts of the screen are out of the viewing area) So be ready to tweak it till your semi happy. Make sure you buy from somewhere that has a good return policy, and do some research an specidic models.
Just last week after having my TV for over a year I finally installed a game on my HTPC.... You havn't played a game till you Play Half Life 2 at 1776x1000..... Enjoy

[g808]

You can use tools like Powerstrip to counter overscan in order to get the entire screen viewable, but I've found that to be too combersome, especially since I don't have a need to see the entire Desktop.

I can set my resolution to 800 x 600 an the whole desktop fits nicely and the font is readable from my couch.

[stanger89]

Cost is only half the problem, actually finding a 720p CRT is even harder. Very few consumer electronics companies even make them. Of the top of my head, Monivision is the only company I know of that produces CRTs capable of 720p, and AFIAK they're discontinued:
http://www.monivision.com/b_stock_products.html

FWIW, I've got a 36" RCA CRT tube, it's rather odd in that it accepts 800x600 via VGA making it almost useable as a monitor, but 800x600 isn't enough resolution for anything but maintenance or the most casual surfing. I've also got a 46" Mits, that at 960x540 is plenty readable, but again, only useable for the most casual surfing.

Not sure what your pricerange is, but DLP RPTV prices have crashed in last couple months, down 25-35%. One of those would make a killer display.

[jenkins_pete]

Just did some checking into DLP units and they do claims "real" resolution of 1280x720 which matches similar size LCD but I don't know if it is worth the trade off (viewing angle) that projection gives. It is nice to have no burn in however.

What are your throughts on DLP projection vs LCD (non projection)?

I think for our uses (combined computer / tv) it makes sense to go with something with a real resolution to avoid having to switch resolutions to use it. Also having no burn in is important as parts of the desktop are static, still I belive both LCD and DLP have no problems in that regard.

Pete

[stanger89]

Yes, LCD and DPL don't suffer from burn in, Tube CRTs probably don't really either if you're carefull.

For me, I'd go DLP. One because 30" is nowhere big enough for movies unless you want to sit 3ft from it. Also (while I haven't done any first-hand research) DLP is widely accepted to have much better contrast than LCD, or in general better image quality (though the gap is shrinking).

Plus, at least the Mitsubishi's, have built-in ATSC/QAM tuners with Cablecard support and firewire.

Personally, I won't be buying a CRT again, unless the so-far-vaporware flat/thin CRTs show up.

[jenkins_pete]

Samsung and LG have the thin CRT's working models but not in production, I think all CRTs will go this way and it will delay the death of CRTs for 5+ years. The thin CRTs are really thin enough for many users because unless you hang it on a wall LCD / plasma need a certain depth for the stand to balance.

I will have to look at DLP RPTV's again, I don't know if I can get beyond the viewing angle issues however. Does anyone know how they are in really bright rooms with uneven lighting?

[stanger89]

We might be thinking of different things, when I say thin CRTs, I'm not talking somewhat less bulky CRTs, I'm talking truely thin CRTs. Think plasma/LCD thin but using CRT technology. Basically all the advantages of LCD/Plasma (size/form factor), CRTs (Image quality) and with low power consumption to boot.
http://www.candescent.com/index.html

Although they seem to have gone out of business.

[kny3twalker]

While there is no real resolution per say, CRT HDTVs normally support 480i, 480p, and 1080i. In computer terms thats 640x480 or 1920x1080, or some other resolution that's run in those timings.

my Sony will take 720p input 1280x720
which is like 1177x662 without overscan and not using powerstrip

[stanger89]

It converts it to 1080i though correct?

[willemse]

Originally Posted by kny3twalker

my Sony will take 720p input 1280x720
which is like 1177x662 without overscan and not using powerstrip

what model?

[kny3twalker]

all XS and XBR Sony CRTs come with the super fine pitch
which means more lines of resolution

30. 34, 36 are the options
only the 34 comes in XBR

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...%22TVs&Dept=tv

cannot tell you want the KV series would look like
but I can tell you until SageTV adds exclusive mode full screen to their renderless VMR9 custom presenter 1080i is no go with SageTV whether DVDs or recorded TV at least by an nvidia video card (or maybe a driver will fix this, but playback is choppy at best)

It converts it to 1080i though correct?

I would think but the TV says 720p on the display
and everything is not as tiny as 1080i
looks more like what 720p should look like
so not sure


how would I know if it is scaling everything to 1080i?
even after reading the pdf
I was not sure if the TV actually did 720p
but that is what the info bar says on the TV when I set the resolution to 720p

[blade]

I know my TV is larger than what you're looking for, but anyway.......

I have a Hitachi 57S500 (I think that's the model) and it accepts 720p then supposedly converts it to either 540p or 1080i using their "virtual HD", it gives you the option of choosing which one. However the text size isn't affected by the TV's so called conversion. I can switch the TV between 540p and 1080i and the desktop stays exactly the same size. Even in 1080i mode on the TV it's definetly not displaying the desktop at the same size as when running my HTPC at 1080i nor does it appear to be at 540p. I'm no expert so it could be possible that it's actually being displayed at 540p but the best I can tell it's displaying at the size that 720p should.

Running at 720p the desktop is usable for basic setup functions but isn't nice enough to do anything in the way of webrowsing, email. etc....

I agree with kny3twalker, if you are planning on using an nvidia card then I'd certainly suggest getting a display that can handle 720p. I've yet to get good playback at 1080i, it stutters alot and I get some artifacts.

[stanger89]

It's called scaling, the display changes the number of pixels that make up the image, not the size of the image.

[jenkins_pete]

Does anyone have experience with Dell's LCD TVs?

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/prod...=19&l=en&s=dhs

I have seen a 32" driven by DVI and it looked as good as a monitor from a couple feet away (still low resolution compared with a monitor).

[jmiddleton]

Several manufacturers (including Panasonic, Samsung and Sharp) support PC display resolutions between XGA (1024x768) and Wide XGA (1920x1080) with either a D-Sub15 connector for a standard VGA cable or a DVI interface. Depending on the size of your screen and the distance to your viewing position you may have to choose large fonts in display properties to get readable text.

You probably won't find this on CRT TV's but anything that uses LCD to build the image, whether rear projection, front projection or flat panel should be capable of being used as a PC display unless the manufacturer chose to cut corners.

LCD's are still quite expensive but prices will continue to fall rapidly as yields improve.