Format with 64K blocks?

[LegolasX21E]

I have heared that this improves performance in sage, how do I do this?
Thanks in advance!

[Opus4]

In XP, you can go to Computer Management -> Disk Management, choose to format a drive, then select the 64K Allocation unit size option. There are also utilities to repartition drives or simply resize the cluster w/o losing existing data -- Paritition Magic and some app from Acronis (forgot the app name) are a couple.

- Andy

[LegolasX21E]

Thanks

[InTheFlow]

A question along the same lines...

Is there a way to find out if your drive is already formated in the 64k blocks? If so, how?

Thanks!

[abbott_m]

If you didn't do it on purpose it's not formatted with 64K blocks. I think the default is 4K block size.

[GTwannabe]

Analyze your disk with the Windows disk defragmenter. It'll tell you the cluster size.

[InTheFlow]

Awesome...thanks for the quick reply!

[Opus4]

Among the various things to do: You can open a command prompt, go to the drive you want to check, & simply type "chkdksk". And, Partition Magic will show the info. (Edit: I don't know if either one is faster than using the built-in defragmenter to analyze the disk.)

Then, there's that "size.exe" utility I wrote a while back that will report actual file sizes for various cluster sizes & which cluster size is in use... but that currently only runs on my PC.

- Andy

[broderp]

What gains do you get as apposed to the standard NSTF format? I just added a drive, and it's EMPTY.

Will it play well if your OS drive is NOT 64K?

[Menehune]

By using 64k blocks you will be less likely to have stuttering video when the drive gets fragmented. If you have multiple shows being recorded, your disk will get fragmented very quickly. I have only 2 tuners, yet most hour shows (2.5GB file sizes) have 1500 (or more) fragments. I've never had a stutter yet while recording two streams and playing back one.

My OS drive (separate drive) is win2000's default block size (4k?) and my media drive is 64k blocks. No problems, both drives co-exist fine.

NTFS partitions will allow larger file sizes than Fat32 parttions. Fat32 only allows 2GB files, so if you have a high quality or long duration show to record, the file will be broken into several files. FAT32 will also only allow a 137GB partition due to limitiations of the system. NTFS will allow up to 2TB partitions, IIRC. Don't know if there are any problems with Sage and multiple piece files as both my Partitions (drives) are NTFS partitions.

[rich_l]

If i used a program like partition magic, can i resize my clusters without formating? The help file isnt much help with that question. Using XP and have partition magic 8.

Hmmm..If not, im not sure what i could do since i have over 150gb stored on the drive already and i dont want to find out the hard way. Thanks

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by rich_l

If i used a program like partition magic, can i resize my clusters without formating?

Yes, it supports resizing the clusters/partition/etc w/o losing the data. But, as when doing anything else with your drives, it is a good idea to back up the data first, unless the data isn't that important... there is always a chance something could go wrong.

- Andy

[rich_l]

Thanks... The data is mostly shows and my own dvds in xvid format that i really do not want to re-encode. There are just to many to back up all of them.

[sharker]

If recording from two tuners causes so much fragmentation, is there a way to send the recordings from each tuner to a separate drive (or partition)...and will this help? I have seen a lot of fragmentation and could have the machine defrag every night, but I would rather not.

[broderp]

[QUOTE=Menehune]By using 64k blocks you will be less likely to have stuttering video when the drive gets fragmented. If you have multiple shows being recorded, your disk will get fragmented very quickly. I have only 2 tuners, yet most hour shows (2.5GB file sizes) have 1500 (or more) fragments. I've never had a stutter yet while recording two streams and playing back one.[QUOTE]

Doesn't a larger cluster size increase wasted space?

IN THEORY: If I have a 66K of data that doesn't fit in a 64K cluster, I will use up another 64K cluster for just 2K of data? That can get to be quite wasteful. 4K seems so much more efficient, but I understand the fragmant thing as well. I guess Ihave the standard size (4K?) clusters and NEVER defragment my Hard drive, and I dont have any stuttering issues.

Interesting, could fragmantation cause a sage to run in slow motion, then lock up? My pc does this about 4 times a week.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by sharker

If recording from two tuners causes so much fragmentation, is there a way to send the recordings from each tuner to a separate drive (or partition)...and will this help?

SageTV automatically determines where to save each recording, so you can not tell it where to save a file, and it does not automatically assign recordings to multiple drives so that it writes a files to one drive at a time, unless that just happens to be where the space is for the recordings. But, with 64K blocks, the fragmentations shouldn't be affecting recording/playback & many (most?) people around here don't even bother defragmenting their recording drives.

- Andy

[mdmint]

Originally Posted by broderp

Doesn't a larger cluster size increase wasted space?

For large files like we're dealing with no.

IN THEORY: If I have a 66K of data that doesn't fit in a 64K cluster, I will use up another 64K cluster for just 2K of data? That can get to be quite wasteful. 4K seems so much more efficient, but I understand the fragmant thing as well. I guess Ihave the standard size (4K?) clusters and NEVER defragment my Hard drive, and I dont have any stuttering issues.

Interesting, could fragmantation cause a sage to run in slow motion, then lock up? My pc does this about 4 times a week.

If using small clusters and highly fragmented as it sounds you are yes it could. Try recording 4 or 5 streams and playing back 3 or 4 at the same time, I can virtually guarantee you'll have stuttering unless HD susbsystem optimized.

[orionhunter34]

Originally Posted by Opus4

people around here don't even bother defragmenting their recording drives.

- Andy

A major problem that I see with fragmented drives is in file recovery. SageTV has on occasion mysteriously deleted a few recordings I wanted to keep but I could not recover the files because they were too fragmented. When a file is deleted it is only recoverable if it is not fragmented. This is because each cluster of a file when deleted has the first few bits (of file name) zeroed out and the link to the next cluster erased. Therefore, if the next cluster is not right after the last, due to fragmentation, then the chain is broken, file recovery software can not find it, and the file is lost forever.

What I plan to do is have a partition for SageTV to record to and another for anything I want to archive. The archive partition will be kept defragmented to enable file recovery.

[broderp]

Speaking of fragmantation and such......how much space does Windows XP really need to be fully functional in sage? If I run a stripped down install of Windows, no "games" or calculators etc... what would that take? 100MB?? I'm thinking of partitionaing my first hard drive into two, one for the OS and the second for SAGE. (AS well as the second physical drive for sage recordings)

Any suggections of how large it should be for temp files, swap file setc....500MB? 1G?

Any links or suggestions? Or should I just leave it as one large drive?

[jominor]

Originally Posted by Opus4

SageTV automatically determines where to save each recording, so you can not tell it where to save a file, and it does not automatically assign recordings to multiple drives so that it writes a files to one drive at a time, unless that just happens to be where the space is for the recordings. But, with 64K blocks, the fragmentations shouldn't be affecting recording/playback & many (most?) people around here don't even bother defragmenting their recording drives.

- Andy

After about 1+ years of running Sage, I started getting some problems:
1) increasingly long amount of time to start playing file when selected.
2) increasing instances of sync problems between audio/video
3) increasing instances of jerkiness.

Both drives had 64k blocks. Since I'd just purchased a new 200g drive, I took the opportunity to:
1) Copy drive1 to new drive and format drive 1
2) Copy drive 2 to drive1 and format drive 2
3) Use drive 2

This "nuclear" defrag solved all three problems. I do wonder if I'm starting to run up against any USB2 bandwidth issues. I now have 6 200 drives (3 Sage, 3 Divx) all connected via USB2 enclosures along with a USB2 Hauppage 250.

I must be getting close...