New system - NEW TV !!!

[mcbinder]

I originally posted this new request for help tweaking my system for my Panasonic TH42PX60U HDTV under an old thread and got no responses...
So, let me try again in a new thread.

Originally Posted by mcbinder

Originally Posted by mcbinder
I have built a new system that really works well - see signature for system details. I built it and debugged it using a 17 inch LCD PC screen and it looked great.

Now, I have it my feeding my TV using the composite out from the video card to the composite in on the TV. I expected it to be worse, but it's REALLY poor video.

I used the default resolution for output. I think it was 800x600.

Any suggestions on making it look better until I get the TV for which it was built? That will be a 42in plasma HDTV.

OK - the price dropped enough, so I got the plasma...
Panasonic TH42PX60U HDTV

The picture is STILL not good from SageTV.
Too dark on live TV and jagged horizontal lines. WAF is 0.
Awesome TV and HD picture from other sources though!

I'm sure there's LOTS of tweaking I need to do.
Where do I start?

I have my eVGA Nvidia display set to 1024x768, which should match the TV.
I feed it from the SageTV box DVI port to one of the TV HDMI inputs with a conversion cable.

I tried video cal brightness on video source setup to no good effect.
I tried most of the video out resolutions, but none get much better.
I used the default settings after a clean SageTV install and just changed the video playback setting to "Advanced" under video sources.
I recently deleted my video recordings and reformatted my data drives / partitions to use 64k clusters. Now only my system install partition is 4k clusters. This has XP, SageTV, drivers, etc. all programs are here.
Data is elsewhere (w/ 64k) on data only partitions / logical drives.

I think it is a playback problem, as I have looked at the MPEGS over my network on my main PC and they look OK on a 17in LCD monitor using MS WMPlayer.

Help !

Thanks,
Mike

[stanger89]

Well, you're using HDMI (not S-video or something) so that's good, you're running the native resolution, also good.

So that makes the first question:
How does the Windows desktop look?

[geogecko]

What is your default recording quality set to? I'm using 2.4Gbytes/hour, and get pretty decent results for SD content.

[mayamaniac]

What video decoder are you using in SageTV? You have an eVGA GF 6600, so maybe download and install the nVidia PureVideo trial version, set SageTV to use it as a decoder and see if image quality improves.

[mcbinder]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Well, you're using HDMI (not S-video or something) so that's good, you're running the native resolution, also good.

So that makes the first question:
How does the Windows desktop look?

Fair, I think, but I'm not sure how it should look on a really BIG monitor.
Can't read a directory list from more than 4-5 feet.
Text looks a bit jagged, with spaces between pixels.

Should I run the same resolution as the screen or higher?

And the desktop is slightly off the screen. It's a bit too big for the Panasonic.
Tried "overscan" correction in display software, but it didn't fix it.

mcb

[mcbinder]

Originally Posted by geogecko

What is your default recording quality set to? I'm using 2.4Gbytes/hour, and get pretty decent results for SD content.

I used the default settings after a clean SageTV install and just changed the video playback setting to "Advanced" under video sources.

That sets VMR9 and some other stuff.

And I changed directories as well.

mcb

[mcbinder]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

What video decoder are you using in SageTV? You have an eVGA GF 6600, so maybe download and install the nVidia PureVideo trial version, set SageTV to use it as a decoder and see if image quality improves.

I downloaded that today and I'll try it tonight.

Thanks,
mcb

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mcbinder

Fair, I think, but I'm not sure how it should look on a really BIG monitor.

On a plasma, it should basically be razor sharp, like a low-res LCD display kind of.

But more what I was getting at was, is it bright, clear, or does it suffer the same issues as video you described above?

Can't read a directory list from more than 4-5 feet.

Because it's too small or for some other reason?

Text looks a bit jagged, with spaces between pixels.

I can't decide if that sounds normal, or abnormal. If they're not fuzzy, if you get up close, and text doesn't look like it's being smeared across pixels, I think you've got it setup about right.

Should I run the same resolution as the screen or higher?

You should generally run the native resolution of the display, in your case, 1024x768 if I read the specs right.

And the desktop is slightly off the screen. It's a bit too big for the Panasonic.
Tried "overscan" correction in display software, but it didn't fix it.

With a display like a plasma, that's the wrong place to do it. Unfortunately from the thread on AVS it looks like you have to go into the service menu to change it.

But all that's probably secondary if you're getting a bad overall picture.

A screenshot might be helpful, if possible.

[mayamaniac]

also, get the latest driver for your eVGA 6600 from nVidia.com, if you are using the driver that came with it on the CD, then most likely its an old driver and may not have all the HDTV output fixed.

[mcbinder]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

also, get the latest driver for your eVGA 6600 from nVidia.com, if you are using the driver that came with it on the CD, then most likely its an old driver and may not have all the HDTV output fixed.

I will try this... I tried one from eVGA website and it didin't work very well at all.
I got a new one from nVidia website to try.

I tried the nVidia PureVideo software and it didn't help.

mcb

[mcbinder]

Originally Posted by stanger89

But more what I was getting at was, is it bright, clear, or does it suffer the same issues as video you described above?

Desktop has great color and focus. Text is tiny, so that may be the reason. SageTV MENU screens are great. Clear with a good blue color.

Originally Posted by stanger89

Because it's too small or for some other reason?

Very tiny text. Is there a way to make it bigger on the desktop. I have the desktop "Appearance" set to Extra Large font. Maybe a different font would be better. I'll have to try a few.

Originally Posted by stanger89

With a display like a plasma, that's the wrong place to do it. Unfortunately from the thread on AVS it looks like you have to go into the service menu to change it.

But all that's probably secondary if you're getting a bad overall picture.

I got the desktop to fit using software from nVidia. A control panel type program for the display.

Originally Posted by stanger89

A screen shot might be helpful, if possible.

What is the best way to get this? A Photo?

mcb

[Humanzee]

Originally Posted by mcbinder

Very tiny text. Is there a way to make it bigger on the desktop. I have the desktop "Appearance" set to Extra Large font. Maybe a different font would be better. I'll have to try a few.

There are two places to set font size, in the appearance tab of your display properties. Then in the Advanced settings off the settings tab there should be a font setting on the genereal tab. I wouldn't think the fonts would be that tiny on a 42" screen at only 1024x768, they get pretty tiny on my 37" lcd at 1920x1080 but they are always crystal clear if you are close enough.

Also, if the desktop and other computer screens appears clear, it sounds like its an issue with just your video playback. Purevideo can help. But before you go troubleshooting that you might try downloading some HD-WMV content off the web (microsoft has clips available for free) to see if they look good in comparison to your normal recordings. Or load up a DVD. Of course these should look better than a standard tv signal anyway, but it could give you an idea if it is your content or something else. We need a way to help you isolate what part of the system is giving you problems. It could be the TV, it could be the calbe, it could be the content, it could be sage, it could be the video card, it could be the drivers, it could be the video codec etc.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mcbinder

What is the best way to get this? A Photo?

mcb

A photo would work, but if video is significantly different from the desktop, then even a screenshot (PrintScreen while using VMR9) might work.

[mcbinder]

Also, if the desktop and other computer screens appears clear, it sounds like its an issue with just your video playback. Purevideo can help. But before you go troubleshooting that you might try downloading some HD-WMV content off the web (Microsoft has clips available for free) to see if they look good in comparison to your normal recordings. Or load up a DVD. Of course these should look better than a standard TV signal anyway, but it could give you an idea if it is your content or something else. We need a way to help you isolate what part of the system is giving you problems. It could be the TV, it could be the cable, it could be the content, it could be sage, it could be the video card, it could be the drivers, it could be the video codec etc.

I guess I should have done this sooner, but I was mostly interested in Sage as a "VCR" and music system.
Therefore, I didn't pay attention to other parts of SageTV.

Anyway, I played a DVD from my SageTV system and it looks as good as from my dedicated DVD player, so I guess it is a problem with the TV recording and / or playback. I'll have to look again, but I thought I found that playing the recorded MPGs from SageTV on my main PC with WinMP over the network looked OK.

If so, it has to be something in the mpg decode path on SageTV then right?

MCB

[geogecko]

Originally Posted by mcbinder

I used the default settings after a clean SageTV install and just changed the video playback setting to "Advanced" under video sources.

That sets VMR9 and some other stuff.

And I changed directories as well.

mcb

I found the default settings to be subpar. That was even with a regular old SDTV. I changed mine to be 2.4GB/hour, and liked the result much better. (It actually turns out to be closer to about 2GB/hour, in practice.)

I think this may still be your problem, if you are recording at a quality much lower than that, the picture will look blocky and not very good, especially on an HDTV.

Just be sure that when you are testing, you are testing with a recording that was recorded with your changed settings...in other words, LiveTV would probably be best.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by mcbinder

Anyway, I played a DVD from my SageTV system and it looks as good as from my dedicated DVD player, so I guess it is a problem with the TV recording and / or playback. I'll have to look again, but I thought I found that playing the recorded MPGs from SageTV on my main PC with WinMP over the network looked OK.

If DVDs look good, then it's almost certainly a recording issue. But to troubleshoot:

Step 1: Verify that your "DVD" and Audio/Video settings are the same in SageTV.

Step 2: Calibrate your system, here's my method in 1 paragraph:

Pop in a DVD, preferably DVE/Avia or another calibration disc, and get your display setup optimally for PC/HTPC sources. Then...

Calibrate your capture settings to match the DVD playback. The best way I've found to do that is outlined here:
http://www.sage-community.org/index....ki/Calibration

Do that and you should be about as good as you can get it.

[mcbinder]

Couple more questions -

How do I make sure the system is using the nVidia decoder?
If it is on the menu and I select it, is it used?
I don't remember if it was there before I installed the demo.
What happens when the demo / trial period expires?
Does it disappear from the menu or just stop working?

Also, do I have to restart Sage TV each time I change a video or audio setting?
Or does that just apply to the .properties file?


mcb

[mcbinder]

Originally Posted by stanger89

If DVDs look good, then it's almost certainly a recording issue. But to troubleshoot:

Step 1: Verify that your "DVD" and Audio/Video settings are the same in SageTV.

Step 2: Calibrate your system, here's my method in 1 paragraph:

Pop in a DVD, preferably DVE/Avia or another calibration disc, and get your display setup optimally for PC/HTPC sources. Then...

Calibrate your capture settings to match the DVD playback. The best way I've found to do that is outlined here:
http://www.sage-community.org/index....ki/Calibration

Do that and you should be about as good as you can get it.

Thanks - I was meaning to get a cal disk, so I ordered a DVE today.
I'll have to try the higher GB/Hr setting.
However, I think I tried that once and it was jerky video.
That was before I reformatted my data disks to 64k clusters though, so that may help.

mcb

[phenixdragon]

One thing to remember, and possible your problem, is if you are using an HDTV and not using an HDTV signal, you picture quailty is going to be horrible. If that's the case, then the only fix is stop using analog video and move to digital, which isn't possible right now for most channels. And the bigger your HDTV screen is, the worse the picture will looks as it is just blown up. I just picked up an HDTV LCD and the picture looks horrible where as my old flatscreen analog TV looked sharp. Now that I have an HD tuner the digital channels looks better then anything else.

[blade]

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

One thing to remember, and possible your problem, is if you are using an HDTV and not using an HDTV signal, you picture quailty is going to be horrible.

Not true, when I got my first big screen HD set I was very disappointed with the PQ using analog cable. Once I got a cleaner signal coming in and calibrated my display it looks fine. The PQ on my HD set looks just as good if not better than any SD set I've seen using analog.

I agree that HD sets show more of the imperfections in the signal especially on a large TV. You need a cleaner analog signal than you do with a SDTV. There are a lot of people using HD sets and analog signal and I doubt that would be the case if the picture was actually horrible.